Am I the Only One...

[skb2010]

Posted: 8/9/08 at 11:51pm

Forgive me if this has been discussed before, but does it seem like some Latinos are very defensive about ITH?

EXAMPLES:








PS. This post should not be taken as racist or negative. I just want to know if I'm reading to into things.

[Patash]

Posted: 8/9/08 at 11:58pm

Well, I'll go ahead and say it. While I realize it's just a publicity line that is meant to sound good, I do think it's rather offensive to non Latinos. Can you imagine a poster for Legally Blond saying "Unless you're white, you can never truly appreciate it"? Or for South Pacific saying "Unless you served in World War II you can never truly appreciate it". The idea that any story can only be fully appreciated by those in it is really pretty lame. In fact I'm trying to think of a single musical about me that I'd be truly able to appreciate. I can't think of any.

[nydirector2]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 12:02am

I'm a WASP and I didn't like this show, hell, I didn't love this show, and I sure as hell didn't appreciate the show.

[SNAFU]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 12:02am

Grey Gardens, unless you are a crazy cat lady recluse you won't appreciate it... Hmmmm. Here kitty, kitty!

[Wanna Be A Foster]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 12:03am

Wait, I'm confused.

Where did those images with text up top come from?

[skb2010]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 12:04am

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks along the same lines.


Lmao at SNAFU.

Broadway Secrets.

Updated On: 8/10/08 at 12:04 AM

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 12:05am

Whoever they are, they need to run spell check.

[Wanna Be A Foster]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 12:07am

Well, skb2010, unless you provide a link, it is to be assumed that you are the author of those images.

[skb2010]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 12:08am

I agree, Phyllis. I was reading it at first and was thinking "Wait, 'So Non-Latinos...' Some?"


Haha. No. I'm about as white as you can get.


I'll post the link if you would like.

[B3TA07]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 12:11am

Shut up Andy. Bwaysecrets is a really popular livejournal community where people post [usually] catty images with anonymous messages photoshopped to them.

No I don't have a link for it.

[Chance]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 12:14am

those images are clearly created by racist folks.

[skb2010]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 12:18am

But I'm sure they aren't the only ones out there.

[fvalle24]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 12:20am

I'm "Latino" and I think that's stupid. Anyone can enjoy a show. Maybe some of the references would stand out more for the latin folks, but it doesn't stop anyone else from wanting to google or research them to understand.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 12:21am

You can like Hairspray. Hell, you can even LOVE Hairspray.

But unless you're a squeaky voiced fat girl, you can NEVER truly appreciate it.

[je veux te voir2]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 12:21am

well I'm latino, and I absolutely loved ITH and it was a truly emotional experience for me. But i saw it with an asian friend and two white friends who ALSO had extremely emotional reactions to the show.

as for those images, a fan clearly made those so its not the stance of the shows produers and i highly doubt they feel that way. I mean, I bet there were black people that said only african americans can appreciate The Color Purple, but the shows producers (Oprah...lol) I highly doubt thought that way.

I think there are going to be a few militant fans for any racially charged entertainment, and one shouldn't take them so seriously or think of them as how the whole group of that people think.

[balletandbroadway]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 12:23am

Here's the link to broadwaysecrets:

Broadwaysecrets

Updated On: 8/10/08 at 12:23 AM

[skb2010]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 12:23am

As I said, SOME Latinos.

[fvalle24]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 12:24am

I think it's funny how everything that's racially charged starts with "I'm not racist, but..."

what a way to be safe!

[Broadway Matt]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 2:18am

I'm sorry, I try to refrain from these long posts but I can't help it with this one. Consider this my yearly preach rant. If you were around back in 04-05 I'd bang out a few of these a day!


This claim is just ludicrous on so many levels and, in its own way, racist and ignorant in itself.

Let's assume for a moment that this person had a valid point in arguing that this is a quintessentially Latin show that only pertains to their particular struggle- which is not the case. But let's assume. They are basically saying that it's cool for non-Latinos to enjoy the show (which they don't mean) but it must be made clear that these people will NEVER appreciate it as much as a Latin person. That's a caustic statement but not totally idiotic.

But then to go on and say that even though it's cool for others to love the show, it bothers them to hear these people going on about it... they completely undermine their position by coming across as just a kid who never learned to share. "Yeah it's cool if you love this Latino show, but at the same time, it bothers me to hear you express it." That is one of the most efficient contradictions I've read in a long time. A classic case of "I was there first, and I NEED to be sure that people know it."

This person is annoyed because now white people who like the show are saying "No Pare Sigue Sigue..." and somehow this is disrespectful to the struggle of the Latin people as a whole? If anything, shouldn't it be seen as a good thing that people are being made aware of and embracing elements of that culture? Isn't that a form of progress, that non-Latinos might go see the show and become so enthralled by it that they want to emulate (and thereby flatter) it?

Now here's the meat of the argument:

This is not simply a show about Latino people, period. Even more so it's a show about New York City, that particular neighborhood, those archetypal characters and the experience of those who settled here for different reasons. CAROLINE OR CHANGE is a show about being black at that time in history. FIDDLER is a show about being Jewish at that time in history. PASSING STRANGE is about the search for self-realization as a black person. ITH is NOT about being Latino. The people in it are Latino, and it is heavily peppered with Latino-specific elements, but BEING Latino is not what the show is about. Look at the plot, look at the themes- none of that is driven by the fact that they are Latino. They just ARE, and that informs the details.

Latinos have experiences as varied as they come, but there is only one Washington Heights. A non-Latino from New York might miss out on a few of the Spanish phrases thrown into the script but they WOULD relate to the pervasive experience of getting by in this city. They would know firsthand what a truly nasty NY summer is like. They would feel at home in the ubiquitous corner bodega, something that is as much a part of the white Wall Street guy's life as it is for the Latin citizen.

Tell me this: would a Latino person from the midwest or california or Mexico or fresh from DR have a concept of Bennett Park or Castle Gardens? Would they understand the significance the salon's movement to the South Bronx or Vanessa's dream of moving down to the Village? Would they be familiar with the things that make Nina yearn to be back "at the top of the world?" Would they think twice about the line "There's no 9 train now," which consistently cracks up about 30% of the audience. These are just examples. No matter who you are, you probably won't fully appreciate every little thing about this or any show. Must it be a competition?

People who love ITH do so for so many different reasons. Maybe it's because they relate to the Latin culture. Maybe they are just familiar with NY, a city with a strong pulse that goes beyond racial lines. Or maybe they are neither and are just touched by the heart of the show: home, family, community. The Asian kid in Boise who has never been to NY has just as much right to LOVE the cast album and connect to the universal themes.

Understandably there haven't been many good Broadway shows about Latin people, so it's natural that the community wants to claim this as their own. But this is not a show just for them. It's a musical comedy depicting the barrio of New York City as a bit of a fairytale version of itself ala GUYS AND DOLLS; with a central message straight out of WIZARD OF OZ. It's a safe, inoffensive commercial venture that happens to be about a demographic that has been painfully underrepresented in musical theatre. Let's hope this is a catalyst in changing that fact.

And I can't help but be amused that they've written their slogan using the LES MIZ font. I guess they hail from the Latino neighborhood of 1860's Paris.

Updated On: 8/10/08 at 02:18 AM

[defyingravity07]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 2:44am

Exactly, it's a story about a struggling neighborhood which happens to be a Latino neighborhood. It would work if they were White, Black, Jews, or Asians. The Latin people are not what makes In The Heights what it is.

[winston89]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 3:04am

Matt, I agree fully with everything you said. I don't think that In The Heights is specific to Latino culture. I think that the themes and the things it talks about are universal. If you want to have a discussion about In The Heights being too NYC based that someone from outside of the city might not get some of the references then that is another story and that is a discussion worth having.

But, one that talks about how you MUST be Latino to understand and like this show is just laughable.

[[tos]fan999]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 3:08am

I just went to that Broadway Secrets things.


And I had no idea what was going on, I was very confused.

[B3TA07]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 3:13am

Yeah, um, it's called "universal themes" guys. Look 'em up.

[My Oh My]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 6:50am

Apart from the Latino in question, which other Latinos have openly expressed the same opinion? Just curious, as you say "some Latinos" (plural).

[Broadway Matt]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 7:08am

winston, hah I've had enough ranting to last awhile. I agree that what it comes down to is universal themes, which gives the show the potential to connect with just about anybody. The question is, to what degree? If I were to choose between the Latin element and the NY element in terms of an outsider's ability to relate, I'd say the NY thing is more problematic. I'm not saying you have to know the city in order to enjoy the show but I do think you lose more by not having any NY experience than you do from not being Latin.

I only say this because I've taken so many people to see the show, mostly people who live here but from all different backgrounds, and every one of them "got it" and loved it.

When I took my friends visiting from california, who had never been here before, they loved the music and the story, but the list of missed references was considerable and they had trouble relating to the situation, the characters and why they want what they want. The significance of certain key elements that are very New York and integral to developing those universal themes was lost on them- especially in the first act.

I tried to give them a primer before the show, but it is so full of NY references, little stuff we take for granted, that their lack of familiarity did serve as a distraction and detracted from their overall enjoyment. Conversely the fact that they have virtually no connection to or knowledge of Latin culture was a total non-factor.

Honestly, I do see it as very much a love letter not just to NY but to a very small pocket of New York, a culture that exists in the span of 25 blocks- which happen to be blocks that your average out-of-towner isn't going to be spending time in. And that does have an effect on how one perceives the performance, if only because they wind up burdened with a lot of "I don't know what that means/where that is/why that's funny..." I have no idea if the show works overall for out-of-towners or how it would work on the road. The release of the cast album and the Tonys can only help compel people to come in with a little more knowledge of what they're seeing.

I just know that my extremely anglo, midtown, country-music loving catholic friend from Oklahoma (who has lived here 2 years) had an infinitely better time than did my cali guests. Both parties were impacted by the universal themes, but those themes were a lot more potent to the friend who lives here and didn't have a learning curve to deal with.