Big League Tours- Page 2

[muzikguy]

Posted: 1/21/07 at 6:29pm

I get confused when people gripe about the working conditions on non-union tours. (A discussion of the performance quality is a completely different discussion, and can vary from tour to tour just as much as is it does with equity shows.) The gig is the gig; if you don't like the living conditions of traveling on a bus and doing one-night shows across the country, why did you sign up to do it for a year in the first place? If the answer is that you didn't know what you were getting into, well, that really isn't anyone's fault at the company, since the non-union tour has been about the same thing for decades. If you want the perks equity has, then join the union and compete in that constantly shrinking job base. I have worked with both Big League and Phoenix and have had nothing but positive experiences on the whole. You just have to be realistic about what you are getting into.

I can't speak for the current management at each of the touring companies at present, but the idea that equity tours "care" more about their employees seems a little misguided. Even if you are union, the primary concern of the employer is to have employees who can do their job. And the truth is, if you can't do the job there ARE hundreds of people in line for it. The main difference, as far as the well-being of the performers is concerned, is that on an equity tour with multi-week stops and people paying for their own lodging out of their per diem, the company hardly has to handle them. They do their show, go home each night, and fly to the next city every few weeks. You also have the ability to get as much rest and exercise as you want, which of course means you can be in better shape for an 8 show a week schedule and therefore would possibly have less of a chance of getting injured. On a non-union tour, the cast frequently has hard schedules with stretches of weeks comprised mostly of one or two night stops, so of course there is more travel, sometimes at difficult hours, and the possibility of more sickness and injury. (In the cases I have seen, at least with Phoenix, work-related injuries were aggressively attended to by the company and insurance company.) Can it be grueling? Sure, but so can working on Broadway and realizing after paying taxes, your agent, equity, and your rent that someone on a non-equity tour, with housing being paid for, can take home more cash a week than the equity actor! And then there are the off-Broadway and reduced equity contracts, which bring the salary in the same ballpark (and sometimes below) non-equity salaries. And that is not to mention the stretches of weeks you must work in order to get benefits through equity. The job is what it is; people making independent films don't make millions and get a personal trailer, and they shouldn't expect to.

I'm not trying to defend non-union tours against union tours, because they aren't in competition. Union tours could never serve the market that non-union tours do. When you look at the fact that Broadway shows, which pay equity minimum and have $115 ticket prices still often take years to recoup their initial investment (if they ever do), you see that with the added expenses of touring, that could never work across the country in one or two day stops. Also, I don't think people take into account the expenses of putting up a show. If you are in a city for a month, you only have to pay the crew once to put up and tear down the set; you only have to set up the costumes and props once; you only have to pay for one rehearsal for the orchestra. In a non-union tour, those things happen in every new city, which can mean 7 times a week. When you consider people across the country aren't going to pay $115 a ticket, and small cities will not sell out a show, what is the alternative than for costs to be cut somewhere? It would be to simply not have shows travel to the smaller towns, not employ those performers, crew, and musicians which have as much right to work as anyone, have less of the country exposed to musical theater, and hasten the death of an already struggling art form. The simple fact is, even though the pay would possibly be greater if these tours could be done on a union contract, the travel conditions and schedule required to book a profitable, non-stop tour with 6-8 shows a week would be almost identical, including the 600 mile drives into a show or playing where there are no restaurants.

For me, there is an added element. I am a musician. Union tours pick up their musicians in each city, which means that, other than the occasional sit down in LA and Chicago, there is really no place in the country other than the 15 or so musicals presently on Broadway to truly make a living JUST by playing shows...except playing non-union tours. I know many friends who have made a good living playing these tours year after year. Also, I can tell you from personal experience that in many parts of the country these tours are some of the best entertainment these people see all year, and you see it in their reactions to the show. To have that responsive and appreciative of an audience often gives these shows a much more exciting energy than you find in cities where shows are commonplace. There is good that comes with the bad.

The funny thing is there really isn't anything to debate here. 99% of theater isn't glamorous. (I know many a friend talking about the rats in their drafty Broadway dressing rooms on the sixth floor.) A non-union tour is just another level of job, like dinner theater and community theater, that's out there that you have the choice to take or not. But you can't fault something for being what it is; if you don't like what apples have to offer, go eat an orange. The sadder issue would be the loss of these tours, which would cost many people long-term, steady paying jobs and take theater even farther out of the mainstream. Even with the working conditions being difficult, would you rather endlessly wait on tables in a NY restaurant, or make the same money traveling in a bus with hours of free time each day while working 3-6 hours a day doing shows with food per diem and housing paid for? It's your choice.

[Neverandy]

Posted: 1/21/07 at 7:24pm

Equity contracts make the producer take care of you. Whereas, when the non-union producer takes care of you, you are eternally grateful.

[tourboi]

Posted: 1/21/07 at 7:32pm

Did you read the post above, NeverAndy? What you says contradicts what that poster (who has done numerous non eq tours) has said.

I, having done some as well, also disagree.

I think both union and non union tours have a rightful place on the road.

[Neverandy]

Posted: 1/21/07 at 7:41pm

"If you want the perks equity has, then join the union and compete in that constantly shrinking job base."

-The point of the union is that these things should never be looked upon as "Perks"

"Can it be grueling? Sure, but so can working on Broadway

-Besides some exceptions, Broadway performers don't travel hours a day to New York, check into a hotel, unpack their stuff, scramble to find dinner, rush to soundcheck,, get used to the idiosyncracies of a new theater, do their show, go home, go to sleep, get up at 6 in the morning and do it all again
"and realizing after paying taxes,

-I paid taxes on my non-union tour
"your agent,"

-agents or managers get between 10 and fifteen percent (140-210 on a minimun broadway salary)


"equity"
-I am not sure what it is for a Produciton contract but it is between 1 and 2% (14 -28 bucks)

"and your rent"
-I'll give you that one, but bear in ind that on tour you have to eat out everyday or be very creative with your dining

"that someone on a non-equity tour, with housing being paid for"
-I hardly call my $375 per diem (with my $300 salary)having my housing paid for. Hotels were $60 a nigh on average, so I had a roommate like everyone else on tour.
, can take home more cash a week than the equity actor!"
-Case closed!

[tourboi]

Posted: 1/21/07 at 8:00pm

Eat out everyday? Many of my hotels on NETWorks had kitchens in the rooms. I cooked quite a bit.

And Equity tours have the same rush into town, get the show ready schedule. They're called Theatreworks USA.

[Neverandy]

Posted: 1/21/07 at 8:11pm

Theatreworks USA is a TYA contract. Not comparable to a Non-union tour. It's Children's Theater performed in the mornings. Also The salary/perdiem package for the TYA contract , atleast in 1999, was more money than my NetWorks contract.
I would venture a bet that 95% of the people who did non-union tours very rarely stayed in Efficiency hotels.

The only equity tour that might compare is the first national of 42nd st. That was on the "experimental touring production contract". Minimum salary was in the 5-600 range But there was full per diem (7-800) and there was also profit sharing after the show re-couped The salaries went up to Full Production when the show played major markets.
I would never trade my experience with NetWorks for the world, but to compare the salary/per diem package and the overall experience to that of 99% of the Equity tours that have gone out in the last 10 years (and broadway as you did in the above post)is ridiculous

Updated On: 1/21/07 at 08:11 PM

[muzikguy]

Posted: 1/21/07 at 8:28pm

Big League and Phoenix both paid for all hotels, outside of your own per diem and salary. Also, where do you have an agent that only takes 1% of your earnings? I know people who would like to talk to them!

As far as the travel being hard, I think I agreed that it can be, and yes, union touring pay is far better. But again, union tours could not serve the audience the non-union tours do. Apples and oranges. If you get a union tour, I am thrilled for you. By the way, musicans tend to make great wages with some of the non-union companies.

[Neverandy]

Posted: 1/21/07 at 8:38pm

I I posted that Agents and managers take 10%-15%
The union takes between 1 and 2%
I would agree that the musicians on my tours made much more money than the cast. But it is a much smaller talent pool so the producers said they were justified.
I also agree that the business model for an Equity tour prevents it from playing the smaller markets, so there definitely is a place for non-union tours in the marketplace as far as I am concerned, but to offer it as a viable alternative to an equity tour as far as experience and salary is irresponsible. This thread was started as a warning about what someone could experience when signing up for one of these tours. Accuracy is important!

Updated On: 1/21/07 at 08:38 PM

[PitPro2004]

Posted: 1/21/07 at 9:27pm

I can't go into detail over salaries, but I will say that Troika paid only a few hundred less than union when I toured with them, at that time. Big League paid, way, waaaaaayyyy less.

The one good thing between the two, was that the treatment was fine, we never stayed in anything less accomodating than a Comfort Inn and the checks were always there and never bounced. I can only remember two occasions where we had to be up at 4 or 5 am and do a rough travel day, but never with a show at the end of it.

[stephen3]

Posted: 1/21/07 at 10:42pm

I have done both Union and Non, as lemme tell you that once you do a Union tour you will be hard pressed to go back to non.
Salary wise Non Union "scale" ranges from 250 (yes 250) a week salary (per diem is a different matter and varies from Non Union company to company) to as high (?) as 500 or 600 Tops. After taxes 3 hundred and change.
Union tours on the experimental contract begins (Minimum) in the Mid 600s plus mid 600s for per diem up to Full "Production" contract minimum in the mid 1300s. With what I do, (I am not an actor) my Mimimum starts at 1601.00 salary plus 800 in Per diem.
Even at the low end of the salary scale on the experimental contract there is a HUGE difference in pay.
There are also the extras: OT travel, OT calls, rehearsal on the road OT, and (for me) work calls, sound check, etc which are all paid out extra.
In a non union situation, most all of that is included in the "salary" package.
THERE IS A PLACE FOR NON UNION TOURS:
They include: SMALLER MARKETS that would have no theatre at all if not for these less expensive to run shows, and for Actors who A) Are just starting out and are building credits and/or older more experienced actors and others who arent bothered by the (often) awful conditions of the Non-Union world.
That is arguable I realize, but after all these years of having done both, thats my opinion.

[scot]

Posted: 1/21/07 at 10:54pm

So touring show actors
and crew have to pay for
their own hotel accomodations?

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/21/07 at 11:06pm

Yes, they do.



And, really, the bottom line is, if you don't like it, quit.

But complaining about it on a message board doesn't do anything.

You had the choice to accept the job, or decline, it's really that simple.

[stephen3]

Posted: 1/21/07 at 11:09pm

RE: Paying for Hotels:
Most of the Non Union tours pay for the Hotels (NOT high end and NOT generally close to the theatre) Networks is the exception to that.
Union tours generally do not pay for the hotels (The exception is a few experimental contracts) but pay where from the Mid 600s (experimental) up to 800+ a week (production).
I have also known some actors/musicians/crew who manage to get the hotels paid for
by the company and still get the per diem.

[Neverandy]

Posted: 1/21/07 at 11:57pm

The reason that union shows do not pay for hotels is so the actor has a choice in his/her living conditions. The per diem is higher on the union tours to make up for this and to cover an average single occupancy acommodation.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 12:05am

On Union tours, you pay from your per diem, but you do get a few choices of hotels, or you can book your own.

[stephen3]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 1:14am

Theatrediva,
What also is of no help on these message boards is you never ending policing of them as though they are your personal property.
I have not read any of these post about this particular topic as complaints, but as the putting out there of information for others to decide if these particlar situations are right for them individually.
I have read many of your posts and more and more steam begins to come out of my ears because of your admonishment of members because of content that is put on the boards for discussion and how and why it is presented.
Leave people alone and stop bullying people. If you choose not to participate thats fine, we can have our own discussion.
But PLEASE stop treating the members here like bad children because you dont like how they are posting or what they are posting about. It's not your situation, so bug off and stop being a jackass.

Updated On: 1/23/07 at 01:14 AM

[Neil Higginbotham]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 11:59pm

Ok all of you who are choosing to throw your judgements around like a hot potato need to get off your high horse.
I didn't know what I was getting into when I joined B.L.T. No one warned me what I was going to go through.
SO, I'm doing just that. Letting people know what they should expect.
Your disrespectful attitude is not necessary here on this message board. You would think with all the experience here there would be less tormenting and more assistance for those of us who are trying to build our careers.
Thank you to those who have informed me of the pros and cons of union/non-union tours. Your information is more that appreciated.
As a dancer, my body is my job. So when I do not have the ability to properly take care of it, my career is in jeopardy.
That was the basic point of my original post. Please take your sour attitudes elsewhere.
Thank you.

[stephen3]

Posted: 1/23/07 at 12:14am

AMEN Brother. That is what these boards are for and people forget that sometimes.
Neil, you're right on.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/23/07 at 12:58am

Yes, and I took a job last year on a cruise ship and found it to be a huge mistake...

What did I do? I LEARNED something from it. I didn't come here and whine about how horrible the production company was.

This whole thread sounds like bitter grapes from someone who either got fired or quit. Which was it?

Life is full if sh!t, deal with it.

"That is what these boards are for and people forget that sometimes"

Yes, Steven with a ph.... Opinions, and I just am sharing mine.

If you don't like it, too bad.

[Neil Higginbotham]

Posted: 1/24/07 at 7:57am

Theatre 'diva'
I didn't get fired or quit. Our tour ended and I chose not to return because of the way the tour was run and the way the cast was treated.
I LEARNED from that tour and made my choices from there.
Life isn't full of ****, I'm sorry if that's what your life has given you. I doubt your bitter and chilling attitude hasn't helped you out much.
Usually an opinion is free of judgement, and all of your posts are dripping with such. So stop atacking people for standing up for what's right.
You are just a bitter and hateful person apparently.
Try smiling more often and not out of hatred.

[stephen3]

Posted: 1/24/07 at 2:13pm

"Bitter..um...I mean Theatrediva... party of one...your table is ready."
Updated On: 1/24/07 at 02:13 PM

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 1/24/07 at 2:29pm

Wow, that's an original one.

[ozone20]

Posted: 1/25/07 at 4:14pm

in my non ewuity days I did a TOMMY tour with Big Leauge. it was so grueling in regards to severly long bus rides straight to the venue to do a show. took its toll on alot of us. oh man and the salary was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO sad. so pathetic. so cheap.
Updated On: 1/25/07 at 04:14 PM

[WriteInNYC]

Posted: 1/25/07 at 5:03pm

Neil,
You nailed it: when someone needs to proclaim that "life is full of s**t" you know that they are getting out of life EXACTLY what they expect. Don't waste your energies on someone like that, and everybody else: KEEP EXPRESSING YOUR OPINIONS!