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Canada Assassins N word controversy- Page 2

Canada Assassins N word controversy

HogansHero Profile Photo
HogansHero
#25Canada Assassins N word controversy
Posted: 8/12/21 at 12:31pm

joevitus said: "is ongoing, as the people mounting that production and Sondheim could not reconcile their views, and obviously it was heated, as they had strong feelings about not saying the world. "

I don't care about the definition "controversy" but nothing is "ongoing" and there is zero indication that anything was "heated." The production belatedly asked for permission to change the lyric and did not get it. Happens all the time. The subject was closed and, per the statement the festival recognized that the rights holders were within their rights to act as they did. No controversy and no indication anything was heated. Not even clear that the production had "strong feelings." What it said was that they screwed up by not putting it through the "process." Move on. Next time try to be more accurate.

dramamama611 Profile Photo
dramamama611
#26Canada Assassins N word controversy
Posted: 8/12/21 at 12:53pm

^Exactly.  US discussing this, after the fact,, doesn't make it a controversy. 


If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it? These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.

joevitus Profile Photo
joevitus
#27Canada Assassins N word controversy
Posted: 8/12/21 at 2:30pm

dramamama611 said: "^Exactly. US discussing this, after the fact,, doesn't make it a controversy."

You can go on and on with this nonsense as much as you want but 1) it does fit one definition of controversy 2) that one aspect of another common definition of controversy is missing doesn't unequivocally stop it from being a controversy. 

But I get the subtext of your point: to you it is not a controversy, so others should stop referring to it as such. Terrible point, but there is stands.

 

JBroadway Profile Photo
JBroadway
#28Canada Assassins N word controversy
Posted: 8/12/21 at 3:26pm

Even if it fits one technical definition, I think some posters are reluctant to call it a "controversy" because that word carries certain connotations in today's day and age that imply something more contentious and publicly-motivated than this is. 

We even saw an example of this earlier in the thread: ctorres read the thread title and assumed that this was driven by public outrage. Granted, ctorres probably should've read the article to avoid that mistake, but nevertheless, one can understand how we've been conditioned to associate a certain set of circumstances when we hear the word "controversy." 

Also, I think it's worth clarifying what aspect of this, under your definition, is a controversy, and between whom. The conflict between Sondheim and the company was not really a controversy, in that it was simply a request, followed by an answer, and then a decision made according to that answer. No more a controversy than asking a waiter if they can do the Bolognese without meat, only to be told that the meat is already mixed into the sauce, so they must order something else. 

Maybe there's some controversy about whether or not the company made the right decision by prioritizing their sensitivity training over the production schedule, but if so, it's worth distinguishing that from any controversy around Sondheim's actual use of the word. I think maybe you're talking about the former, and other people think you're talking about the latter. As far as we can tell, there is none of the latter at play here. 

However, even if you're talking about controversy over the company's decision to cancel rather than skip their sensitivity protocol, I'd still question whether there's actually any controversy there. Was there some controversy within the company about this? Very possible. Maybe even likely. But the statement doesn't indicate either way. Was there controversy within the community where the production was going to be staged? Again, very possible, but I have yet to see any indication of that, possibly because no one has linked to anything of that nature in this thread.

The only place I've personally seen discussion about it is in this thread, and so far, nobody here seems to be implying that the company made the wrong call in this specific regard. A lot of the complaints in this thread seem to based on the false assumption that they cancelled the show simply because they found the use of the N-word unacceptable, which isn't the case. Or they're questioning what actually went down behind the scenes - I suppose that's a controversy in a way, but it seems to have been clarified by subsequent posts. 

Updated On: 8/12/21 at 03:26 PM

binau Profile Photo
binau
#29Canada Assassins N word controversy
Posted: 8/12/21 at 3:39pm

Are we splitting hairs? I agree with many of the arguments made both for and against whether ‘controversy’ is technically correct or not in this context but does it really matter? Ultimately a Sondheim show was cancelled because they could not perform one word in the show as written and they were not allowed to proceed. I find that quite interesting and something worth discussing - I would describe it as a controversial event but don’t mind if others wouldn’t or if it’s not the right word.


"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022) "Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009) "Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000

#30Canada Assassins N word controversy
Posted: 8/12/21 at 4:01pm

JBroadway said: "We even saw an example of this earlier in the thread: ctorres read the thread title and assumed that this was driven by public outrage. Granted, ctorres probably should'veread the article to avoid that mistake, but nevertheless, one can understand how we've been conditioned to associate a certain set of circumstances when we hear the word "controversy."

Guilty as charged. I completely misunderstood the nature of the cancellation (though, after reading the statement, I am even more confused now than when I started).

joevitus Profile Photo
joevitus
#31Canada Assassins N word controversy
Posted: 8/12/21 at 4:33pm

binau said: "Are we splitting hairs? I agree with many of the arguments made both for and against whether ‘controversy’ is technically correct or not in this context but does it really matter? Ultimately a Sondheim show was cancelled because they could not perform one word in the show as written and they were not allowed to proceed. I find that quite interesting and something worth discussing - I would describe it as a controversial event but don’t mind if others wouldn’t or if it’s not the right word."

Well said.

HogansHero Profile Photo
HogansHero
#32Canada Assassins N word controversy
Posted: 8/12/21 at 5:19pm

binau said: " I find that quite interesting and something worth discussing - I would describe it as a controversial event but don’t mind if others wouldn’t or if it’s not the right word."

I totally agree it is interesting and worth discussing. I also don't mind how you or anyone describes it as long as you understand that what you are describing as controversial is something that happens virtually every day. The only thing I see here that is even potentially controversial is that a producer that knows better didn't recognize what they needed to do in advance to avoid this unfortunate result (and by that, I don't mean the turn down; I mean asking the question in a timely manner so as to avoid having it reach the point of a cancellation of a performance). Clearly someone was not paying attention and I guess "unwitting" is a euphemism for "we F'd up." 

PhinsAccount
#33Canada Assassins N word controversy
Posted: 1/7/22 at 10:48am

It seems like there's some controversy controversy


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