Caroline, Or Change
Caroline, Or Change
#1Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/29/11 at 12:32am
I just recently saw a production of Caroline, Or Change at the Human Race Theatre in Dayton OH. I was somewhat familiar with the show before, but after seeing it, I just feel in love. The piece is just magnificent and I am thrilled I got a chance to see it live. I was hoping that people here would be willing to share their thoughts on the original B-way production. I would love to hear more about the performances, direction, sets, etc. Also any person stories or fun facts that anyone has. Also I would love to hear thoughts on the Tony Race that year and whether you think the performers who won deserved to.
Thank you for your thoughts. I can't wait to read them
#2Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/29/11 at 11:04amI hate to be *that* guy, but seriously just do a search for Caroline. It has been discussed in multiple threads and is one of the few shows that gets almost universal praise on these boards. Lots of people have posted what they thought anout the show and for me its up there woth Scottsboro Boys as the one the general public just didnt get....It is one of my favorites and I wish it would have lasted longer. Does it have much of a regional life?
#2Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/29/11 at 11:13amI don't mind sharing my thoughts on CAROLINE at all but if you do search for those threads you'll see all the heated debates surrounding the fact that Tonya Pinkins' Tony award was wrongfully given out to a vastly inferior performance and the show itself was overlooked so that people could make a small "feel-good" show a winner instead of awarding the most complex and emotionally satisfying show of the past 25 years and one of the greatest musicals of all time, the Best Musical title it deserved and still does deserve to call it's own.
#3Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/29/11 at 11:41am
It hasn't had much of a regional life, really, so little so that I was considering making a 4 1/2-hour drive to Dayton -- let me repeat that: A 4 1/2-HOUR DRIVE TO DAYTON -- to see this production.
I enjoyed THE SCOTTSBORO BOYS. I had a few issues with it, but overall it was a very strong show. I wouldn't put it in the same category as CoC, though... not even close, in fact. CoC was easily one of the best experiences of my theatergoing life, and not only was it brilliant in production on Broadway, but the material is almost unmatchable.
#4Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/29/11 at 1:31pm
I totally agree with Jordan and will add that I think it was a masterpiece. definetly search for the threads and do a bit of googling. You will find some stuff out there.
The mess surrounding the Tonys that year was awful. I suspect the votes for Chenoweth and Pinkins cancelled each other out and Menzel got it. The show should have at least won for Score and Leading Actress. I am so glad I got to see it on Broadway. It closed 2 months before I got back to NYC when I had planned to see it again. Thank goodness for the recording.
#5Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/29/11 at 2:19pmthemysteriousgrowl you are right....Caroline and Scottsboro Boys are in two different leagues. I think I just compared them both because it seems like they were both under appreciated outside of this community. But in terms of material....Caroline is, in my eyes, flawless. I wonder, is it generally considered Kushner's best work?
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#6Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/29/11 at 2:22pm
I really liked the Broadway production. I thought it was brilliant. If I'm remembering correctly, some of the critics were put off by the anthropomorphic characters and set design. Because people randomly bursting into song makes sense, but a washing machine is a step too far?
The score is one of my all time favorites. Tonya Pinkins was a such another level of performance that season. I like to convince myself that the voters just didn't see the show, but then how do you explain Anika Noni Rose winning for her role?
Have you seen the Tony performance, MisterSnow? That's Tonya nowhere near the top of her game for this show. She gave everything she had to every performance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLcMXS0booM
#7Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/29/11 at 2:32pmMy understanding is that she was under the weather for the Tonys and didn't want to go on but was asked to go ahead and do it.
#8Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/29/11 at 2:37pmImmediately following the awards she was out of the show for a while to recover. I know this because it was when I saw the brilliant Adriane Lenox go on for her. And she was better than Tonya was. Her performance was one of the greatest things I'd ever seen in my life.
Gaveston2
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/28/11
#9Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/29/11 at 2:40pmHow odd to complain about the singing washing machine! Did anyone complain about the singing sock drawer in AVENUE Q?
#10Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/29/11 at 2:49pmWhat sock drawer sings in Ave Q? I only saw singing boxes.
#11Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/29/11 at 2:50pm
Part of me believes that Tony voters just didn't want to vote for a character that says 'And hell's where Jews go when they die' to a child.
I do think it's the music theatre achievement of the new century. And I find it so bizarre that this show was so wanly received in it's Broadway production, but has gone on to be very popular (and liked) regionally.
Plum
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/4/04
#12Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/29/11 at 2:52pm
If you want to narrow your search for old Caroline threads, look for posts by MargoChanning, who followed the production throughout its development and consistently posted detailed and insightful posts about it.
It's crazy how much more I get out of listening to the show now then I did when I watched the Broadway production. (And I loved it at the time.) It's not that I was an idiot then - it's that there's so much in there, and some of it I just plain wasn't sophisticated enough to get when I was 19. And I'm sure there's plenty I won't get until I'm 30, or 60. It's that kind of show.
It's fantastic that Caroline is getting love regionally. Maybe someday in the distant future we'll get a revival and the show will get the Broadway love it deserved all along. It kind of got lost in the background of the Wicked vs. Avenue Q "story" that year at awards time.
Updated On: 11/29/11 at 02:52 PM
#13Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/29/11 at 3:01pm
"I do think it's the music theatre achievement of the new century."
That was my thought as I left the theater. I just couldn't put it in the words you did. I kept thinking that it was forging a new direction in musical theatre.
#14Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/29/11 at 3:13pm
Thus far, and I see damn near every show I possibly can, I have had three truly altering experiences at the theater. Those were my first time seeing RENT, Grey Gardens, and Caroline or Change.
The three shows completely changed my view and shook my world, no matter how corny it sounds. Tonya Pinkins remains to this day the most vibrant, solid, stoic, enlightening, and magestic performance I have EVER seen on the stage. She is closely followed by Christine Ebersole.
When Menzel won I was devestated, Pinkins is the rightful owner of that award and I feel that anybody who is anyone in the world of theater share this opinion. I often wonder what Menzel thinks about it herself. Especially because she is not the best Elphaba to have played the role.
It pains me that the show wasn't more widely accepted, but I thank my lucky stars that every single day my Mother bought me a ticket to closing night and I was able to see it.
It was superb in every single way.
#15Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/29/11 at 3:45pmThough I personally would have voted for Pinkins, I don't have the huge problem that some have with Menzel's win. I thought she grounded really effectively a hulking behemoth of a show. She brought quite a bit of heart to the evening but, more importantly, she brought a rather thrilling sense of encroaching madness as the evening wore on. I think she gets a bad rep for her performance and Tony win. But it was far more nuanced than some people are giving credit.
#16Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/29/11 at 4:21pm
I actually leaned toward the Menzel win. Mostly because Tonya's voice was WAY off to the point of distraction when I saw her (starting from her opening line) and though I can't quite discern if it was the direction, the writing, or her performance, there simply wasn't much emotional range. I loved the show and the score is one of my favorites, but I wondered how many of the Tony voters caught her on an off performance like I did. I actually walked out of the show being most impressed by Anika Noni Rose and Veanne Cox. I was thrilled by Anika's win as I Hate the Bus was my favorite number from any show that season.
I saw Wicked from the upper balcony and Menzel's charisma and presence filled that entire barn of an auditorium. I thought if she lost to anyone it might be Chenoweth, but Menzel had the stronger character and the showiest music. I thought she nailed it.
#17Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/29/11 at 4:33pmSonof, the person I saw WICKED with said at the end of the show that Menzel had the Tony tied up. Nominations hadn't come out yet. I enjoyed her performance and thought she was the best of the three I saw. I just don't think she should have won it that year even with the good performance that she gave.
#18Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/29/11 at 4:44pmTotal get you, uncageg! Like I said, were I a voter, I would have ticked the box for Pinkins (but...lest we forget...Donna Murphy was also nommed and had won the Drama Desk, I believe). I get people having preferences. I just don't get the vitriol shown to Menzel. I think she's actually pretty splendid every time I've seen her on stage. And, though I use to not like her on film, I think she's the best thing about GLEE this season.
#19Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/29/11 at 5:20pmYou're watching Glee this season?!?! I gave up after the Rocky Horror episode.
Candleshoe07
Swing Joined: 6/22/08
#20Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/29/11 at 5:24pmI too saw this production at the Human Race Theatre Company last month, but it failed to live up to the perfect production I saw at the Court Theatre in Chicago. I feel like this production tried to be too "literal" in its storytelling and design elements, making the piece seem very emotionally stale. The actress playing Caroline did not fully embody the role, and her rendition of "Lot's Wife" was simply another song - it didn't go anywhere. And the director's choice to place the Moon in the back of the house and the Washing Machine, Dryer, and Radio throughout the aisles made it difficult to follow the story and connect to these characters. I am a huge fan of the show, so any opportunity to hear the score and experience the wonderful story is nonetheless very exciting.
#21Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/29/11 at 5:45pmI also saw the Court production in Chicago, which was quite good. I didn't agree with some of the directing choices (I Hate the Bus seemed way too petulant and juvenile), but after seeing it on Broadway, I was pleasantly surprised with how the Court handled the staging and design.
luvcaroline
Broadway Star Joined: 10/19/05
#22Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/29/11 at 8:07pm
IAMmyown.., I don't think that your comments are the least bit corny. Seeing Caroline, or Change on Broadway was the single most compelling theatrical experience in my lifetime, and the one by which all others are measured.
The first time I saw it (on Broadway) I happened to be in town for a meeting and went alone. It was the Saturday before the Tony Awards and Tonya was in great form. This just happened to be the first show I had ever been to by myself, and one of my greatest regrets was not being able to share it with someone. It's the first time that I really almost had trouble leaving the theatre after the performance, it had that profound of an effect on me.
Later I went with a friend to the see the same cast (minus Anika) in L.A. I thought that Tonya was even better then, but I was a bit let down about the absence of Anika. I know that she won the Tony, but I'm not sure that people understand how truly profound that she was in that role. I was sitting in the fifth row on Broadway and could see that she had tears running down her face at the end of "I Hate the Bus." She completely embodied that character in a way that I had never seen before. Her "Epilogue" was truly stunning (and one of the main reasons that I had so much difficulty leaving the theatre).
It goes without saying that I also think that Tonya should have won the Tony, but I also must say that I thought Idina gave a good performance also (and maybe a little "showier" than Tonya).
All in all, I guess you could say that I LuvCaroline!
#23Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/29/11 at 10:21pmI'm just happy that I paid someone to make the bootleg video of this show. It was worth every single cent.
#24Caroline, Or Change
Posted: 11/30/11 at 12:36am
Annmiller--to your question about if it's Kushner's best regarded work, I'm sure Angels in America tops it on most lists (granted partly because it's simply better known, though it probably slightly tops it for me), but it's definitely my second favorite.
An absolutely brilliant show I wish I could have seen live. I've loved Tonya ever since I knew her as Livia on All My Children when I was a kid--and I do get why people were upset she didn't get the Tony. But I think it's one of those shows that takes a while to really grow on people--critics included--the way many great shows (ie a good percentage of Sondheim's work) seems to. And I kinda doubgt that the producers expected it to run all that longer than it did, though more Tony wins probably could have given it a few more months.
Jenine Tesori has to be one of the current musical theatre songwriters I find the most inconsistent. She's worked on such eclectic subjects and types of shows, and while I find some of her lighter stuff charming (I love the Millie songs), and am a huge fan of Caroline or Change and to a lesser extent Violet, she has stuff (oh, like basically all of Shrek, or the songs she did for that direct to video Disney Little Mermaid spin off not to mention Mulan II and the Emperor's New Groove sequel) that I just can't imagine how they come from the same composer.
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