City of Angels revival ever?- Page 2

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 7/10/17 at 10:27pm

I don't think expense it the issue. Particularly with projections, there's no reason CITY should be any more expensive than any other show of similar size.

***

Mister Matt, if you find "The Ball Is in Your Court" "sexy" or "flirtatious", I would assume you are 12. But the rest of your argument is too skilled for a pre-teen.

Comparing "It Needs Work" to "Send in the Clowns", however, is laughable. Nobody has ever missed a word of "Clowns". If people wonder about the meaning, that's as it should be; for the meaning of the phrase changes: it is poetry instead of prose (in content as well as form) from the mind of a mature artist (Desiree).

As for Amy's lyric in "Not Getting Married Today", she's SUPPOSED to sound madder and madder until she is simply babbling nonsensically. Have you heard the song in the show?

[A Director]

Posted: 7/11/17 at 1:44am

Gaveston -  The title of the song is THE TENNIS SONG.  A

Any thoughts about Cole Porter's "But In The Morning, No?"  "Do you do double entry dear?  But in the morning, no."

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 7/11/17 at 1:54am

Thank you, A Director, for the correction. The title of the song, IMO, matches the imagination needed for the double entendres.

Porter, on the other hand, is brilliant. Zippel is no Cole Porter either.

I am not a prude and have no problem with honest pornography. But the puns in "The Tennis Song" make me cringe for the performers, the characters and the lyricist.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 7/11/17 at 10:46am

Mister Matt, if you find "The Ball Is in Your Court" "sexy" or "flirtatious", I would assume you are 12. But the rest of your argument is too skilled for a pre-teen.

No need to get nasty.  I said it was a matter of preference and taste.

Comparing "It Needs Work" to "Send in the Clowns", however, is laughable. 

No, it is not.  I was responding directly to "But they have an immediate meaning that one can grasp even among the distractions of live production."  

As for Amy's lyric in "Not Getting Married Today", she's SUPPOSED to sound madder and madder until she is simply babbling nonsensically. Have you heard the song in the show?

Of course I have.  The lyric I mention is actually in a section where the lyrics are delivered more slowly than the patter-babble sections and is part of very specific directive intent on the character.  

Regardless, I realize there is no point in responding directly to your comments.  No doubt you are the more mature and intellectually superior one.  Meanwhile, I'll continue to enjoy the brilliance I find in Zippel's lyrics to the entire score of City of Angels with a smile on my face.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 7/11/17 at 11:44am

Matt, I am sorry. I thought I made it clear that I do NOT think you are 12. Your posts are quite articulate and thoughtful, whether or not I agree.

I don't agree "The Tennis Song" is in the same league as Cole Porter or Noel Coward's double entendre numbers. And it isn't just a matter of taste; wit and elegance can be measured objectively. The Zippel lyric isn't even funny.

David Zippel only dreams of writing a lyric as profound, yet simple as "Send in the Clowns". That "clowns" are a metaphor for "fools" is clear in the context of the scene. What is more thought-provoking are the contradictory placement of the fools: "Don't bother, they're here" yet "Maybe next year". These references extend the clown metaphor--and Sondheim adds extra measures not only to let Glynnis Johns catch her breath but to allow the listener to think a bit about why the clowns seem to be all over the place. Please. Give me one example where Zippel does anything so beautiful and profound.

But anyway, my primary purpose here is to explain what I now understand seemed rude to you. The fault was mine and I am sorry.

I don't think liking CITY OF ANGELS is a sign of stupidity, poor taste or ignorance. There are hundreds of worse shows.

Updated On: 7/11/17 at 11:44 AM

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 7/11/17 at 12:05pm

Please. Give me one example where Zippel doesn't anything so beautiful.

I wasn't talking about any of that.  You mentioned "immediate meaning" which I challenged based on not only my own experience of City of Angels, but prior questions regarding Sondheim lyrics that had come up over the years.  I know exactly what Send in the Clowns means both in context of the song and the meaning of the phrase itself, but not everyone does.  You're attempting to force a comparison I wasn't making.

And it isn't just a matter of taste; wit and elegance can be measured objectively. The Zippel lyric isn't even funny.

That is your subjective opinion including your own personal measurement of the wit and elegance you require of a lyric.  I think the song is cute and fun, but I'm not even trying to make the case that this specific song is why I regard Zippel's work on this show so highly.  In a score I love from start to finish, it's one of my least favorite songs from the show.  I just don't share the same contempt for it as you.  On the whole, I enjoy the City of Angels score more than some of Sondheim's scores.  I'll always acknowledge Sondheim's genius, but I don't always enjoy his product.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 7/11/17 at 12:41pm

Bad paragraph on my part: wit and elegance can be measure objectively.

Different thought: "The Tennis Song" isn't even funny. Yes, this is a subjective judgment. I'm sure Beavis and Butthead find it a riot!

If you like Zippel, so be it. But your opinion that he is in the same league as Sondheim is shared by no one, not even Zippel himself, I'd wager. There is just no comparison in terms of skill.

 

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 7/11/17 at 1:03pm

Oh, for crap's sake.  I'm not begging my opinion be shared with anyone, so why do you have to force it?  Is there some inherent need you have to be so insistent that I am wrong and you are right, even in personal opinions?  

YOU HAVE BEATEN ME DOWN!  I NO LONGER THINK ZIPPEL IS FIT TO LICK SONDHEIM'S BOOTS AND I WILL NEVER DARE TO ENJOY HIS WORK OR THINK HIS NAME IS EVEN WORTHY OF THE MERE MENTION IN THE SAME SENTENCE AS OF HIS HOLY SONDHEIM FROM THIS DAY FORTH.  YOU HAVE FAIRLY WON AND MY OPINION SHALL NOW ALIGN WITH YOURS AND ALL OTHERS THAT FALL UNDER THE PURVIEW OF YOUR GODLY OMNISCIENCE.  YOU WIN!  CONGRATULATIONS!  YOU ARE NOW AND FOREVER CORRECT!  MY OPINION IS NOTHING!  I AM UNWORTHY!  

Not that I mean a word of it, but hopefully, it will satiate your need for superiority.  I hate Beavis and Butthead, so I don't even know if they'd like the song or not.  But obviously, you would know better.

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 7/11/17 at 1:12pm

Boy this thread started to spiral.

 

Back on track, I think there's enough in this musical to warrant a revival. If Side Show can have a revival surely this can.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 7/11/17 at 1:19pm

If Side Show can have a revival surely this can.

We'll probably have to wait for Follies to flop again before it happens.  And at least two more revivals of Gypsy.

[KnewItWhenIWasInFron]

Posted: 7/11/17 at 1:23pm

rattleNwoolypenguin said: "Boy this thread started to spiral.

 

Back on track, I think there's enough in this musical to warrant a revival. If Side Show can have a revival surely this can.

 

"

Bless you for attempting to get this back on track. I loved the original "City of Angels" and listen to the cast album quite often. "You're Nothing Without Me" and "You Can Always Count On Me" are both frequent plays on my iPod. So, yeah, I'd love to see a revival. I wonder if part of the issue is that it's unlikely to be revived without stars -- but the parts, even though there are several good ones, are not quite star parts?

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 7/11/17 at 1:53pm

Mister Matt said: "If Side Show can have a revival surely this can.

We'll probably have to wait for Follies to flop again before it happens.  And at least two more revivals of Gypsy."

 

Don't forget another terribly misguided revival of Guys and Dolls that sucks all the humor and fun out the show.

[Cora Hoover Hooper]

Posted: 7/11/17 at 2:18pm

Mister Matt said: "If Side Show can have a revival surely this can.

We'll probably have to wait for Follies to flop again before it happens.  And at least two more revivals of Gypsy.

 

"

LOL.

[Owen22]

Posted: 7/11/17 at 7:36pm

Mister Matt said: "I love everything about the show. The book, score, lyrics, staging and performances were all exceptional. To me, Zippel's lyrics are right up there with Sondheim (someone else whose lyrics often contain ingenuity that isn't noticeable on the first listen). I was hoping Donmar's Olivier award winning revival would transfer. I'd love to see another top-notch production of the show again."

Oh no. Oh, no, no.  The Donmar production could not hold a candle to the original Broadway. It was poorly directed and Hadley Frasier wasn't compelling (and you need a charismatic actor for that difficult role). Tam Mutu had it easier but his boring portrayal f'ed up Stone too (Dear God let him be fired from the "Secret Garden" tour before it reaches New York!!).  The only real highlight of the Donmar production was Rosalie Craig who's rendition of "It Takes Work" was a master class.

Updated On: 7/11/17 at 07:36 PM