Do you agree that the Sondheim books are the best musical theatre books ever?

[jayinchelsea]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 7:47am

Just as Moss Hart's "Act One" was considered the greatest book ever written about theatre in its day (and Frank Rich's "Ghost Light" brought a flood of memories to every little boy who grew up dreaming of a life in the theatre), "Finishing the Hat" and "Look, I Made a Hat" (known as the Bible, parts 1 and 2 in our home) strike me as the ultimate look at a professional life in the theatre. No, it's not a memoir; Steve is leaving that to others, and we will see them one day, but in many ways it is a memoir, as he recounts his joys, his triumphs and disappointments in his work.

Can anyone think of a better or more impressive recollection?

[best12bars]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 8:51am

Do you mean "ever" or "lately?"

You just listed Moss Hart's book, and then discounted it because it was "in its day." So which is it?

[Skip2]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 9:11am

So, Jay, is it a memoir...or not?

[After Eight]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 10:03am

To the question posed in the title of this thread, my response is:

No.

[iluvtheatertrash]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 10:41am

I think Ted Chapin's EVERYTHING WAS POSSIBLE is certainly one of the best musical theatre books out there.

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 11:00am

ACT ONE is still a hard act to follow. I've only seen the first Sondheim book, and as much as I enjoyed reading it, I wouldnt quite put it up there as the Greatest Book Ever Written. EVERYTHING WAS POSSIBLE is close, true, but I think you still have to go back to Moss Hart.

[tazber]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 11:56am

Not only the greatest books about the theater, but the greatest written word in the history of the universe.

I hear that Westin is going to start putting them in the nightstands.

[IBelieve17]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 11:56am

I have not read Act One, but I completely agree about Everything Was Possible, mainly because it's an in-depth account of the WHOLE experience of putting on a Broadway show. I enjoy Sondheim's books, but I'd be hard pressed to say that they're the best ever simply because they focus on such a narrow aspect of musical theatre.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 12:00pm

Haven't read them yet. They are on a pedestal far too high for me to reach.

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 1:51pm

I do not agree that the books are "the best musical theatre books ever?" (I'm not even sure why you mean by that.)

These books are not about musical theatre, just one man's contribution.

I would rank the HAT books as among the best lyric collections published, mainly because Sondhiem himself provides the commentary detailing how these lyrics came to be written. (unlike lyric collections by Berlin, Porter and Gershwin.)

As for the best musical theatre books, Ethan Mordden's series covering musicals decade by decade are great reads:

MAKE BELIEVE (covering the 1920s)
SING FOR YOUR SUMMER (1930s)
BEAUTIFUL MORNIN' (1940s)
COMING UP ROSES (1950s)
OPEN A NEW WINDOW (1960s)
ONE MORE KISS (1970s)
THE HAPPIEST CORPSE I'VE EVER SEEN (1980 to 2004)

The last book is a rant against the appalling decline of musical theatre in the 1980s, 1990s and the early years of the 21st century with attention to several overlooked shows that he feels deserve more attention. I find him informative, opinionated, and fun to read. (His reading discography at the end of his book BROADWAY BABIES could be expanded into an entire book!) I think anyone looking for a good overview of the genre would do well to read BROADWAY BABIES And its predecessor, BETTER FOOT FORWARD. Also recommended (despite its age) Stanley Green's WORLD OF MUSICAL COMEDY. Most Libraries have copies.

To get a sense of the reviews (and official financial HIT/FLOP status of every Broadway musical 1943 to 1981) Stephen Suskin's two volumes OPENING NIGHTS and MORE OPENING NIGHTS are very useful.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 1:57pm

I like Mordden as a novelist and I agree his theater books are worth reading but i find his arch, camp asides wearying. I really don't need to know what his bitchtastic trick said at the opening night of "Minnie's Boys" or what he overheard in the men's room at "Night Music."

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 2:04pm

Joe, I couldn't agree more. He's well enough informed, but I find Mordden unreadable.

[Kad]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 2:04pm

The Sondheim books are the best books about musical theatre created by Sondheim.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 2:07pm

The only problem I have with Mordden is that he'll often veer off from informative to opinionated and alienates the reader who may feel even slightly differently. I was really into the historical overview of each decade, rather than periods of style, popularity or innovation as is the norm. But as the series progresses, it shifts in tone from objective to subjective and I simply wasn't interested in yet another hand-wringing diatribe on what musical theatre is SUPPOSED to be. It sort of discredits everything else.

[Timmer]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 2:17pm

Look into Lindsay and Crouse.

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 2:27pm

For something a little off the beaten path, take a look at MAKING MUSICALS by Tom Jones (of Jones/Schmidt). Fascinating read about process.

[Idiot]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 2:45pm

I think that in time we're going to find that when Sondheim worked from pre-existing material, the books were good. Otherwise they are kind of atrocious.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 4:43pm

"Atrocious"? Why, for Christ's sake? The two volumes are what they are: a compendium of lyrics from our greatest lyricist with his own notes.

Does Sondheim set forth as comprehensive a theory of lyric writing as Oscar Hammerstein in the latter's LYRICS? As a matter of fact, no. But that's at least partly because Sondheim's lyrics vary more as a result of his insistence that content dictate form. It was easier for Hammerstein to articulate a "style" because he developed a rather specific one.

Are the HAT books as comprehensive a look at the shows included as Craig Zadan's SONDHEIM & CO. No. (For me, Zadan's book is probably the most informative on the general subject of musical theater as well as the specific subject of Sondheim's shows up to the date of the revised edition.)

But for those of us who care enough to want to read alternative versions of "I'm Still Here" (an admittedly limited audience), the HAT books are a treasure.

Whether any artist can ever be the final word on his own work is debatable.

***

As for Ethan Mordden, I agree his biases are held to an extreme degree; but I like his non-fiction works and find his novels unreadable. So "different strokes" and all that.

[raker]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 5:09pm

I loved Finishing the Hat. For better or worse, since reading it I listen to show music differently. All the bad rhymes, non-rhymes, mis-stresses and cheap lyrics I used to barely notice now jump out and grab my attention.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 5:14pm

Gaveston, I'm not sure, but I think Idiot may have been using the word "book" in its other, musical-theater sense: the book as opposed to the score of a show.

That's actually how I first read the thread's subject line.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 5:58pm

Thanks, Reg, I get it now.

I don't think of "Sondheim's books" in that sense, because they are all written by other people. There are the Wheeler books, the Firth books, the Lapine books, etc.

I also don't agree they are "atrocious." They work or don't to varying degrees, but each is at least reasonably smart and an attempt to approach unusual subject matter in an appropriate manner.

(And despite the evidence of this post, I do have a sense of humor. I swear I do.)

[uncageg]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 6:29pm

Just an aside....Ted Chapin is on the latest broadcast of Theater Talk along with two original "FOLLIES" cast members. It is now online.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 6:37pm

Actually, I'm kinda partial to the three-volume Memoirs of Minnie Maddern Fiske myself.

Volume 1 is kinda slow, but if you stick with her till Volume 3, Mrs. Fiske dishes real dirt about Laura Keene ("not very keen") Henrik Ibsen ("that nasty Norwegian"), Joseph Jefferson (went without bathing "for years at a time") and the Booth Brothers (loved John Wilkes, hated Edwin, slept with Junius Brutus, whom, she says, "was not endowed by his Creator with much of anything").

Updated On: 1/4/12 at 06:37 PM

[Idiot]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 8:03pm

AAAAAA! Sorry -- I completely misunderstood this thread's purpose. I was in fact commenting on the 'books' of Sondheim musicals -- not the pair of books he's recently written. Being a writer who's currently writing the book of a musical, I guess I'm a bit blind to the different meanings of that word at the moment.

Updated On: 1/4/12 at 08:03 PM

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 1/4/12 at 8:50pm

PalJoey, you might also enjoy the memoirs of Sarah Bernhardt, especially the section where she goes to the apartment of an acting rival, trashes the place, and horsewhips the poor woman into the street.

And we think today's celebs know how to work the media....