Favorite "Rose's Turn" On Recording?- Page 4

[NathanLaneStalker]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 12:34am

Bette Midler

[Bret]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 1:08am

Based on those I've heard...
Ethel Merman-Not my favorite, but I can see why she was such an in demand performer in her day.
Bernadette Peters-I like her. It may not be the most stunning vocally, but she sings it as though her world is crumbling, which I like.
Tyne Daly-My first Rose(on CD). I really like her. Her rough vocal quality does not bother me, and I feel she acts it well.
Angela-On the whole good. Bad orchestra, but she shines.
Bette -Sounds fine vocally, but it sounds like Bette and not Rose.

So, truth be told,I dont' know my favorite.

Updated On: 7/13/06 at 01:08 AM

[PersonofInterest]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 4:28am

Angela Lansbury

I must say that although I thought her overall performance was a little lacking, Bernadette's Rose's Turn was fantastic live! But the recording is weak.

[Wanna Be A Foster]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 7:42am

Tyne all the way! Brilliant!

[philcrosby]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 8:36am

I was lucky enough to have seen Lansbury's GYPSY. She was absolutely brilliant. No one wanted to tackle the role in a major production before her, fearing the comparison to Merman and that the Merm "owned" the role. Lansbury took the character in a different direction (anyone who says Peters was the first Rose to use sex as a weapon never saw Lansbury) and was also the first to do "the bow" after Rose's Turn.

I have seen the videos of Daly and she is wonderful as well ... I liked Arthur Laurent's quote that Daly wasn't afraid of seeming like a monster. She was probably the meanest, most abusive Rose in her manner, but somehow she still made you care about her.

But, guys, Merman is Merman. She was a force of nature. And whether you like her or not (and I love her) the thing you must realize is that almost all the shows she starred in were written expressly for her. Shows aren't written specifically for stars any more ... perhaps that's because there aren't really any stars these days, perhaps it's because a show has to run ten years to be successful in today's economy, perhaps it's because there aren't any actors willing to sign a "run of the play" contract and, like Merman, Martin and Channing, show up and give 110% at every performance during a three to four year run. But that's another discussion.

Without Merman, the following shows would likely never have been written. ANYTHING GOES. ANNIE GET YOUR GUN. CALL ME MADAM. GYPSY. And, initially, HELLO DOLLY.

And this world would be a damn poorer place.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 9:05am

I have no doubt of Merman's star quality and her obviously huge talent, or her commitment to run of the play contracts, but it has been written again and again that she was NOTORIOUS for walking through shows once she was bored playing the part, which was usually pretty early in the run. I don't know that its exactly fair to say she gave 110 percent at every performance...

[philcrosby]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 9:31am

Michael Bennett, I have never heard it said the Merm walked though her roles when she was bored. What I have read numerous times was that she gave exactly the same performance every time and that it never varied -- it was the same opening night as it was on closing night. Miss Birds Eye, remember?

[folkyboy]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 9:42am

philcrosby, she totally walked through roles. read more about her. i'm not a huge aficionado of the American Theatre but i knew that much.

i also know she can hold a note longer than Idina can anyday. but i better shut up before i get one more poster comin' at me telling me how i'm being immature and how she's not paranoid of her credibility as a "fan".

Ethel is the best Mama Rose in my opinion. though i wanna hear what Patty will do with it. Lupone slurs a lot when she sings so i can see her taking "Rose's Turn" to ugly scary heights of brilliancy.

i'm also a fan of Bernedette's as well.
Updated On: 7/13/06 at 09:42 AM

[philcrosby]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 9:52am

Actually, I have read a lot about the Merm, and I stand by what I said. I have never heard any audience or her contemporaries talk about "walking through" roles. I HAVE heard repeatedly that her performances were exactly the same every time, no variation ... hence Sondheim's "trained dog" comment about her.

Rose was completely tailored to Merm's abilities ... the notes in Rose's songs were all Merm's "money notes" and the dialogue delivery were written to sound perfect in Merm's Queens "patois." So while there are many other actresses who will find other colors and shades in their performances, Merm is, to me, the original and greatest.

[tthomas76]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 10:17am

For me it's Bernadette Peters... Loved it...

[WhoCouldBeBlue]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 11:09am

ljay,

How do you know I didn't see Merman live? :)

I didn't. I'm basing it on the recording, just like the OP mentioned. You can hear it on the recordings. With Merman, it seems to be so one-toned, one volume, same inflections, without much "drama" to her voice. But, that's just my opinion.

[WhoCouldBeBlue]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 11:29am

Demitri2 said: Hmmm....Merman was a favorite of Irving Berlin, George Gershwin and Cole Porter. Maybe they knew something some of us don't.

I'm not sure if it was Arthur Laurents or someone else who was quoted telling Bernadette that she finally had the interpretation of Rose that he had invisioned all these years? I think I remember reading that somewhere.

[luvliza89]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 12:11pm

Just wanted to jump on the love for Roz Russell bandwagon. Again minus who is doing the singing, she is damn near incredible in this role. The moment before she sings "Everything's Coming..." is sublime, how she just sits there very still, with that blank look on her face. Yet you still can see the wheels turning for what to do next. Sublime. I never understood the negativity this film gained, except for possibly the lack of singing on Roz's part. Miss Wood is terrific as Lousie, and makes for a great movie to watch.

More on topic, I most prefer Lansbury's "Rose's Turn", and agree with whoever said that Lansbury owns "Rose's Turn", Merman "Everything's Coming..." and Petes' Sondheim etc recording of "Some People". All great singers and actresses filling an amazing role in an amazing musical.

[philcrosby]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 12:53pm

I agree that Roz is terrific acting the scenes in the GYPSY film and if it had be done as a non-musical, she would have been bloody brilliant. But every time she opens her mouth to sing and Lisa Kirk's baritone pops out, the film stops dead in its tracks for me and takes forever to recover.

Rose is such a great role and every actress is going to bring something new and wonderful to it.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 1:00pm

Tyen Daly is my personal favorite.

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 1:02pm

I despise Ros Russell and Midler's version.

I can take or leave Daly or Lansbury's.

I think Merman's is good, but it's just too much.

I would go with Peters' any day. The emotion is unreal.

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 1:09pm

"Michael Bennett, I have never heard it said the Merm walked though her roles when she was bored. What I have read numerous times was that she gave exactly the same performance every time and that it never varied."

But that is walking through a role...

" also know she can hold a note longer than Idina can anyday. but i better shut up before i get one more poster comin' at me telling me how i'm being immature and how she's not paranoid of her credibility as a "fan". "

What did that have to do with anything? She can hold a note longer than Idina Menzel any day of the week. Idina can hit higher notes than she can any day of the week as well. Frankly, neither of these facts matter to me in the slightest. People are way too thrilled by how loud, long, or high people can belt or how big someone's personality is, and that does not a good actress make.

When did I ever say anything about my credibility as a fan? What does that have to do with anything? I attacked no one solely based on their opinions. I'm the one who was attacked in such a manner and responded to the poster accordingly. It had nothing to do with whether or not he liked Ethel Merman.
Updated On: 7/13/06 at 01:09 PM

[ljay889]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 1:19pm

It's pretty sad this thread became a Merman vs Idina thread.

There is no question in my mind that Idina could never have the impact on Broadway that Merman had.

Maybe Idina could sing higher than her. but Merman didn't have to gasp for air after ever 3 notes. And you say Merman sounds shrill? Which I don't get at all, because technically shrill stands for a higher pitched voice. Idina sounds shrill as hell on some of the songs on SWIWS (I'm trying to avoid Wicked.) While I think she sounds better on SWIWS, she is still gasping for air, and sounds extremely shrill and screechy at the end of KESA.

Still there's no doubt that Idina is not a true belter. She has a nice rock quality voice, she can yell, etc. But belting is what Patti LuPone does. I'd say modern day Broadway stars like Sherie Rene and Julia Murney are more a belter than Menzel. And then London has 2 fabulous belters in Ruthie Henshall and Maria Friedman. My point is that is real belting, not what Menzel does.

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 1:31pm

"It's pretty sad this thread became a Merman vs Idina thread."

Yes it is, because it has nothing to do with Idina Menzel. Last I checked she didn't play Mama Rose, so I'm not exactly sure why others have brought her up as a comparison. It is irrelevant. Which is why I refuse to even touch your other comments.
Updated On: 7/14/06 at 01:31 PM

[WickedGeek28]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 1:54pm

Bernadette Peters does it for me.

[philcrosby]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 1:58pm

BroadwayChild: Reproducing the same performance night after night as Merman did is not walking through a role, IMHO. It's called consistency, and it gives an audience two years down the road the same experience that the first-nighters had.

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 2:03pm

I guess so. But I can't help but think that any performer halfway interested in what he/she was doing would strive to find new layers or new ways to do things. That's what actors love to do. I get the impression she was more of a bask in the glory of the applause performer than an actress.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 2:16pm

Well, I've heard the "Miss Bird's Eye" comment but that's not the story I was talking about.

I don't remember what book has the anecdote; it's perhaps a Broadway collection like "SING OUT LOUISE" or maybe the recent Sondheim biography, but there is a great story of how Stage Management would try to trick Ethel into NOT walking through performances of GYPSY by telling her that certain celebrities were in the house. Eventually, Merman caught on though and would peek into the audience herself before deciding what level of commitment to give to the role.

I've heard similar stories from actor friends in NYC who worked with her as well as people I know who saw her on stage. As I said, nobody denies her work ethic or her professionalism, but all maintain she got bored early on in the run and would walk through performances. As I understand it, it was a little beyond just being "consistant."

And I have no idea why Merman is being compared to Menzel. Compare/contrast to Mary Martin if you like but Menzel? Please.

[philcrosby]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 3:23pm

MB, now that you cite the story, that is ringing a distant bell. I've got the books, so I will look that up and stand corrected on my info.

I regret never seeing the Merm in a show (opposed to concert format). The only one I would have been of age to see was DOLLY and I was no where near NYC at the time. I have enjoyed the tape of the performance I have though!

[Villiy]

Posted: 7/13/06 at 3:27pm

Bernadette's hands down. Merman's is just bland and lacks passion.