Happy 50th Anniversary to SWEET CHARITY!- Page 3

[hork]

Posted: 2/3/16 at 2:57pm

Nice to see so much love for the movie. It's always been one of my favorite movie musicals, and I've always been puzzled by its unpopularity. I think it's actually a better movie than Nights of Cabiria.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 2/3/16 at 3:05pm

Yeah, I can only imagine that that missing scene on the DVD is one of those errors that no one caught--they probably just used the best print (and otherwise it is the road show as you mention) and since, despite that one extras, it was a pretty budget release just didn't bother checking.  It really does need a BluRay but I suspect that won't happen (I mean there are classic films like A Place in the Sun that still haven't gotten the treatment either) unless it's a Twilight Time limited release which actually does sound very possible.

The "live" copies of the 80s revival, but as I said without Allen, are, for 80s bootlegs, very good quality.  I found it thrilling just to get a decent idea of Fosse's original staging.  Really just iconic.  Was the ending changed for the revival as someone on here implied?  (I mean the Fosse revival...?)  I know nobody was really happy with the original ending (the fairy godmother joke)

I have posted this before, but it's a great read if anyone missed it.  A year or two ago thedigitalbits did a round table discussion about the film and its Roadshow engagement.  I don't agree with some of the negative opinions of course, but I think it has a lot of good opinion and discussion about why the film flopped.  Apparently many different cuts of the film were sent out.  Also, some of the roadshow engagements were pretty successful as it shows: 19 weeks in NY, Boston and Miami...  http://www.thedigitalbits.com/columns/history-legacy--showmanship/sweet-charity-roadshow-engagements

[best12bars]

Posted: 2/3/16 at 3:07pm

The movie Sweet Charity has aged really well, helped in no small part by the iconic Fosse choreography, but it's also the entire late-'60s nostalgia factor that (at the time) was probably considered a "sanitized modern" viewpoint. I just think it was bad timing for musicals in general that year. Hello Dolly (also from 1969) has aged well, too, when other musicals of the '50s and '60s have not.  Another one that comes to mind is "Hair" from the late '70s. It's a much better film than it was given credit for at the time of its release.

 

For me, the film version of Charity is about Fosse's choreography AND direction, the amazing costumes, makeup, and hair, and a central performance by Shirley MacLaine that I consider one of her best ever.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 2/3/16 at 3:23pm

Yeah--part of the problem seemed to be that in 1969 it didn't quite fit.  As you say some probably found "taxi dancers" etc as sanitized nostalgia.  At the same time the studio wanted a huge roadshow hit and it wasn't exactly the family friendly musical most roadshow musical hits had been (of course this was a problem with far lesser attempts around the time at major roadshow musical releases).

 

I agree with you completely on how well it has aged--as well as with Hair which I find brilliant.  I'll just say no comment to Hello Dolly   (But it's never been a fave show for me).

[best12bars]

Posted: 2/3/16 at 3:48pm

I wasn't a huge fan of the Dolly movie initially, but I am now. I grew to really love it.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 2/3/16 at 4:31pm

I actually always assumed Dolly was a massive flop, but apparently not.

From that article: Sweet Charity

was far from being the biggest disaster of the era, however, so the impact of its failure was probably less than that of, say, Star! or Doctor Dolittle.

Holston: The year 1969 was not a good one for roadshow musicals.  Only Hello, Dolly! seems to have made a decent profit.  Goodbye, Mr. Chips and Paint Your Wagon underperformed.  Many people did see these films but their production costs were hard to recoup unless they were absolute smashes.

Kennedy:  The year 1968 saw Finian’s Rainbow, Funny Girl, Star!, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, and Oliver! as big splashy roadshows.  There were other non-musical roadshows at that time, too, including 2001: A Space Odyssey and The Lion in Winter.  It was just too much for the market to bear, and Charity’s appearance in early 1969 was a case of unfortunate timing.  It was one of several musicals of the era that performed badly at the box-office, ultimately dooming the roadshow.  

[steven carter]

Posted: 2/3/16 at 9:31pm

Hey "Best 12 Bars": I always enjoy your posts, though I rarely comment. I appreciate you knowledge and obvious affection for so much of the good work that has been done.

One point regarding what you said re: appreciating some of these film adaptations. Maybe you don't know it, but the 1979 film of HAIR was RAPTUROUSLY received, and very much appreciated by many. At the end of 1979 Variety did a survey of the best reviewed films of the year, from a representative array of critics and entertainment writers all across the country, as they often did at year-end/awards time in those years. Not only did HAIR make the "Top 10 List"of best reviewed films of '79, it had more rave reviews (according to Variety) than several of the ultimate Oscar nominees for "Best Picture." If the Oscar noms went by reviews, HAIR, with it's powerful Michael Weller screenplay, and direction by Milos Forman that actually dances along with Twyla Tharp's choreography,  would have been a Best Picture nominee. I helped John Willis compile info for SCREEN WORLD and THEATRE WORLD for many years, and I remember our HAIR film file had year end "10 Bests" from Time Magazine, NY Times, and many, many,others. (In fact, the only film musical I EVER have come across with as many good reviews as the HAIR adaptation are the MY FAIR LADY, and CABARET adaptations on their original releases. Some bigger hits, like SOUTH PACIFIC and SOUND OF MUSIC got far more mixed critical reviews (though, again opposite the "myth", SOUND OF MUSIC film did receive many good reviews, and outside of NY media, many rave reviews-see the excellent recent book SOUND OF MUSIC:FAQ for a truer record of how that film was received than "legend" has it). 

Also, despite the fact HAIR didn't make as much money as United Artists hoped, in certain markets it did very, very well. If you were in NYC at the time, you may recall large, enthusiastic crowds at the late, lamented Ziegfeld, where it opened in March and had a nice run. I saw it there in March, at many other theatres during the summer of '79, and was even able to still see it in cinemas again at Christmastime (it was playing at the Kips Bay theatre then, and others). In today's quick in-and-out, disposable type of cinema exhibition, it is nice to remember when a film could develop word-of-mouth though a nice, long stay in cinemas. That exhibition model gave a chance for a film to have more cultural resonance

Let me also agree with you (and others) on the film of HELLO DOLLY. One can reasonably argue about Streisand's casting, BUT the film-making itself is marvelous-almost like a classic MGM musical (with the contributions of Roger Edens, Gene Kelly, Michael Kidd, etc..) with orchestrations of incredible style and beauty, and a truly gorgeous physical production. DOLLY may have been out of step with the angst/violence of 1969, but as you say, viewing it on its own merits, and not as something that didn't comment on the Vietman War or street riots, is a much fairer way to judge the film in the larger context. Don't believe that it didn't have champions even back in '69.. Not only was it among the top grossing films of 1969 (it was truly POPULAR, only a "flop" due to the cost over-runs, it paid off after the sale to tv), but it was also a Best Picture nominee.

I also like SWEET CHARITY onscreen, because that's the film that freed Fosse with the camera. Marvelous experiments, most of which pay off. The ending is much better than the original stage show (Fosse was right to change the ending from the original stage show). 

C'mon people/fellow theatre lovers!!!!, these films (DOLLY, HAIR, CHARITY), ARE appreciated, and even cherished, by people who really are true lovers of the art of musical theatre and film. Would you really prefer to have a selection of only sci-fi, and "Alvin & Chipmunks" sequels???? Appreciate these flms for all they do offer and be glad they were made. I sure am!!!

Versus say a certain film musical adaptation, much in recent conversation, that mainstream America loves, but that is so clunkily directed, cuts clever 1950s parody songs in lieu of inappropriate to the source material 70s disco songs, mis-shoots all Patricia Birch's dance moves, and ends with a car flying in the air---hmmm, something that might appear in a Sandra Dee movie-for a work that was written to reject everything Sandra Dee represented in pop culture. Now that's a film I hope real theatre lovers would complain about, instead of saying how glad they are the new tv version used those elements. But that's a whole other thread, right? 

 

[MichelleCraig]

Posted: 2/3/16 at 9:44pm

I've shown friends the Blu-ray of HELLO DOLLY and when the transition from Streisand's "Before the Parade Passes By" to the actual parade sequence happens...their jaws drop. Magnificent physical production. I get a little sad when I drive onto the Fox lot now and nearly all of it is gone...

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 2/3/16 at 10:01pm

Okay Steven carter you need to post more often. Your insight is great and count me as a big love of the move version of HAIR

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 2/3/16 at 10:01pm

Okay Steven carter you need to post more often. Your insight is great and count me as a big love of the move version of HAIR

[steven carter]

Posted: 2/3/16 at 10:10pm

Thanks for kind words, CarlosAlberto, will do. There are SO many interesting people that post here-just look at all the knowledge and affection in this thread.Mr. Nowack, Best 12 bars, Yourself..... posting rare film footage, videos that some of us would have missed, original production stills, plus just the good conversation that good company brings. A toast to you all, bringing warmth and color to a dreary February night! 

[Peter2]

Posted: 2/4/16 at 12:16am

Well, you all have made me want to rewatch Hair, which previously has disappointed me. That is, up until the great ending with "Let the Sunshine In," which always thrills me and brings tears to my eyes. (That's MY era and I'm proud of it, damn it!) I've wondered how/where it was filmed. Forman cleverly makes it look like the it's all takes place on the Ellipse in front of the White House, but I don't imagine they'd have allowed filming with a huge throng there. My guess would be they shot it in Central Park when doing the crowd scenes there? Anybody know?

 

Like last12bars, I used to think poorly of Hello Dolly but now I love it. Years ago, I would have told you it was long and very dull, but now I find it a positive laugh-riot, with exhilarating musical numbers. I always want to defend Sreisand, too, who I think is GREAT in the movie. Number for number, it has to be one of the strongest scores of any show from the sixties, but--and this is heresy to some--I never liked Philip Lang's orchestrations for the stage version, and in that regard the movie is a big improvement, to my ears, anyway. 

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 2/4/16 at 12:57pm

Wow Steven Carter, what amazing insight you have. I too may have to revisit the HAIR film, it's been ages since I saw it and I think perhaps I was too young to really "get" it.

 

I do vastly prefer the (scare-quotes) "bloated" and "overdone" musicals like DOLLY and CHARITY. The work of painstaking artistry in terms of production design, orchestrations, costumes (the list goes on and on) are astounding. Whether it's a caricature of then-modern NYC ca. 1969 or a love letter to NYC in the late 19th century it's gorgeous to watch and listen to, and even though the morals displayed may be old-fashioned or quaint I don't find issue with that.

 

One of my all-time favorite films period and certainly probably my favorite musical film is the glorious Goodbye Mr. Chips, also from 1969. Sure Peter O'Toole was no Robert Goulet but the sheer artistry involved and yes even the perhaps overzealous sentimentality gets me every time. Too bad it wasn't appreciated in 1969.

[best12bars]

Posted: 2/4/16 at 2:04pm

I hope it's clear that I loved HAIR when it came out. But it was the disco era (even reflected in some of the arrangements), and it was generally well reviewed, but it didn't do well at the box office. The budget was $11 million, and it made $15 million. By comparison, one of the year's biggest hits, Kramer vs. Kramer, made $108 million.

 

I agree with you about how good it is. I was even wishing at the time that Twyla Tharp had been honored with a special Oscar for her choreography, which was breathtaking on film. Like watching a flock of birds in flight.

 

But I stand by my assessment that the movie wasn't received well by the public. And considering how good it is, that's why I list it with Charity and Hello Dolly as being movie musicals that should be considered better.

 

As far as Dolly goes, it did get a Best Picture nomination, and there was such a cry of "Foul!" from the media and even from the Academy at the time. They actually changed their rules after it happened, about "wining and dining" voters prior to nominations. It was considered bribery after that. Fox had thrown a huge party on their lot, on the giant interior set of the Harmonia Gardens, and invited Academy members to dine and drink in high style, then see the movie afterward. Some were quick back then to point out that they would have nominated it for Pope or Queen, let alone Best Picture, if they could have, following a "serenade" like that.

 

I enjoyed the film when I was growing up, but never loved it. I thought it was a bit cartoonish and silly. I still think so, but that's what I embrace about it. The highly stylized approach to the material. I now appreciate the marvelous on-screen chemistry (despite the off-screen loathing) between Streisand and Matthau. The music, the sets and locations, the costumes (it's fun spotting Judy Garland's "Under the Bamboo Tree" dress from "Meet Me In St. Louis" on one of the extras). I love all of it. And if you haven't checked out the Blu-ray release, please do! It's beautifully remastered and a feast for the eyes and ears. (Harmonia Gardens set and Academy voting ballot not included.)

[steven carter]

Posted: 2/4/16 at 9:01pm

Best 12-Thanks for clarifying. Of course I remember the HAIR film wasn't a popular, mainstream hit (which frustrated me, especially compared to the much sloppier GREASE film the year before), but I just wanted to highlight some of the great critical reception. It became apparent to me, when the recent Bdwy revival was done, that HAIR's lack of FINANCIAL success in '79 had somehow misled younger people into thinking it was poorly reviewed, when quite the opposite was true. 

 

Mr. Nowack and Best12-re: the Dolly film: The orchestrations are indeed glorious (ever notice all the top arrangers who worked on it-more arrangers than any other movie musical I can think of). That's fascinating that one of Judy's dresses is in there-I'll watch for that. I've always thought that, if Judy had been in better shape in '68-69, she would have made an astonishing Dolly. Her warmth and humor would fit the role like a glove. Jerry Herman has said many times, and in many places, that his most inspired songwriting came when he would imagine hearing Judy's voice in his head. And when I see all the talents associated with Judy who worked on the DOLLY film (Roger Edens, Gene, etc...) it just would have been lovely to see her. I enjoy's Barbra's performance, but Judy would have fit the part age-wise better, the age issue being one of the major knocks on the film (if Dolly's returning to the Harmonia Gardens at age 25, was she 14 when she used to attend with Ephram? 

And yes, I do recall some of the push-back over the "Best Picture" nomination, but that wasn't just DOLLY alone. The same thing happened after DOCTOR DOOLITTLE's nomination. Plus, remember MIDNIGHT COWBOY had been nominated, and suddenly any film that didn't have bjs in a seedy 42nd St. balcony was suddenly not relevant or real art. It was wrong for voters to let Fox wine & dine their way into nominations, but equally wrong to assume that anything X-rated like COWBOY, or Dennis Hopper made while stoned (remember the attempts to hail LAST MOVIE?), was the ONLY way to make real art.

 

Mr N: re MR. CHIPS-do you know anything about the improved, extended soundtrack recording that was released? I only came across it in Paris once, and I didn't have the francs to buy it. I assume it was available online at time of release, but didn't hear a peep about it being released. Are there other songs we don't know? As you probably know, the Palace was turned back into a movie theatre  (after the runs of "Sweet Charity", "Judy at Home at the Palace", "Henry Sweet Henry" and all that publicity about the Palace being  "legit" only....for the run of the CHIPS film. I didn't get there (I was a kid, and my folks weren't interested), but I'm told by one who went that there were truly seas of empty seats. As people in this thread have pointed out, the general public equated roadshow musicals with "family" entertainment only. And an adult love story like CHIPS ("You and I" is truly a gorgeous ballad, Petula is radiant, O'Toole's acting is great, and several of the boys are charming) was not what they were looking for. Likewise with CHARITY. Though it received a "G" rating (funny, when you think of the tone of the film), it's clearly for adults, not children.

As I said yesterday, one can bitch (as people do) about this or that on any of the productions in question, but my god, I am so glad they were made. They do represent craft and the art form in a way not often seen onscreen. And though a few of these so called  over-produced, etc... (blah, blah-like you'd really prefer them done as on-the-cheap, knockoff productions???) musicals truly had a small audience, most found quite respectable popularity. It was the extremely high costs that made some not able to show profit (at the time of the original run, anyway. TV sales, cable, home video, etc... have made most, if not all, profitable down the line. In chasing the kind of dollars that WEST SIDE STORY, FAIR LADY, and SOUND OF MUSIC made, the studios let costs get out of control (like paying Christopher Plummer his complete star salary for DOCTOR DOOLITTLE, and dumping him when Rex Harrison decided to do it after all), but the costs should really only matter to the accountants. The WORK is what matters to me 

Thanks for all your perceptions.

 

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 2/4/16 at 11:17pm

Whoa I never knew that Mr. Chips ran at the Palace!

 

I'm very very familiar with the extended (3 disc!!) chips soundtrack. It was a film score monthly release (the arrangements and incidental music were by John Williams well before his later fame) so I do not believe it was released digitally unfortunately and is extremely hard to find, but a friend send it to me once long ago. There's actually some interesting tidbits in the booklet about how Williams was pretty much the only arranger left in Hollywood because everyone was off working on DOLLY and even though he wasn't particularly well known yet he was still assigned for the massive production.

 

I agree that it's a ravishing score, actually very unusually structured for such a big budget and "sentimental" movie. It's mostly introspective solos and duets, maybe one or two ensemble numbers with the boys and only one BIG production number to be seen (framed as a stage show excerpt). In that way it's really not warranted of the reputation it seems to have gotten of being so old-fashioned and irrelevant. As you said Clark and O'Toole are spectacular and the location shooting and cinematography is breathtaking.

 

I like your point about the reputation of the roadshow musicals as "family" fare even though their actual content wasn't always in line. It's I think always a problem in the film industry even today especially with the ratings system as it is. You can't really have a grown up movie rated PG or it might not catch the adult audience even though there may be no objectionable content to garner a PG-13 or R rating. But that too is it's own separate topic!

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 1/13/19 at 11:19pm

Bumping this thread. February 14th will mark the 50th anniversary of the film's release. 

The film is being re-mastered for a blu-ray release by Kino-Lorber licensed from Universal Pictures. 

Sweet Charity blu-ray news

[brdwybound04]

Posted: 1/14/19 at 1:51am

Ugh all this REALLY makes me sad that the Sutton Foster led off-Broadway production never transferred to a Broadway house for a limited engagement. I never go to see it there, but heard only great things, and Sutton seemed/looked great in the role. Plus I really wanted to erase my memories of the 2005 revival and hear new orchestrations!

[Jarethan]

Posted: 1/14/19 at 8:29pm

I don't remember reading this topic when it was written 2 years ago.  Steven Carter was right on re the reviews that Hair received.  It got great reviews, was a great movie, much better than the live show IMO because it fleshed out the actual story beautifully. 

I actually saw it again in the past 6 months, probably on TCM, and my opinion hasn't changed.  I have always assumed that it was a flop because it was released too late...audiences had moved on. Which was a real shame, because Milos Forman did a great job.

I also thought that Sweet Charity was a terrific movie, also impacted by timing, i.e., too many big musicals opening around then.  At the time, I am pretty sure that Shirley MacLaine was in one of her (more than once) 'has-been' phases (boy, has she gotten the last laugh), which did nothing to help the box office.  Bob Fosse brought such imagination to the movie and MacLaine brought such heart.  

I too am in the the 'I Love the movie Hello, Dolly' club.  I also watched it in the past year and really enjoyed it all over again. I thought that Just Leave Everything to Me was perfect for Streisand and that her So Long, Dearie still ranks as the best I have ever seen / heard, with the possible exception of Donna Murphy (who I admit to having a bias towards).  The ending had to serve as a model for the recent Broadway revival, and was a perfect blend of schmaltz and skillful filming.  (Ironically, the main disappointment to me was the filming of the title number, which was just too muted...I wanted more brass than on Broadway and got smoothness instead, and smooth does not compare favorable to brass, when discussing that number.

To the person who loved Goodbye, Mr Chips, I also loved that, even though it was pretty reviled in its day.  The main reason, of course, was Peter O'Toole's magnificent and under appreciated (though Oscar-nominated) performance, aided by the gorgeous cinematography.

Of course, none of these movies came close to Fiddler on the Roof, which may be for me the best movie adaptation of a Broadway musical ever.  Everything worked beautifully for that movie, which I also fgeelhas never gotten the respect that it deserves.