'Holy Grail' vs. 'Spamalot' -- Page 2

[Theatreboy33]

Posted: 12/24/04 at 2:10pm

scott, like someone else mentioned, what exactly were you expecting when you walked into a monty python musical called "Spamalot?" And with $140 tickets to a PREVIEW, why the hell wouldnt you at least stay for the second act to see how things wrapped up. Your advice for people to immediately sell their tickets on ebay is both patronizing and moronic, not to mention extremely egotistical, thinking that the board members here would follow your (who joined the board a few hours ago) advice and just give away any investment we might have made in purchasing our tickets. If new musicals like Spamalot dont fit your sophisticated tastes, I hope broadways yet to come offerrings of Good Vibrations or All Shook up better suit you.

[scott6069]

Posted: 12/24/04 at 2:32pm

I tried to keep this light but you pushed me over the edge. I didn't throw insults at anyone that disagreed with my opinion. Until now. Boy, the last sylablle in you name suits you to see this crap. Also I wasn't aware I had to do "time" on this site before an opinion could be posted. So "boy" here is a little unsolicited advice for you. Lighten up and try to get your point across without the insults and name calling if that is possible within your limited intellect. Now go take your nap.

[Theatreboy33]

Posted: 12/24/04 at 3:25pm

So "boy" here is a little unsolicited advice for you. Lighten up and try to get your point across without the insults and name calling if that is possible within your limited intellect. Now go take your nap.

Your scholarly "unsolicited advice" scott has proved fairly meaningless to me. It's exactly that--unsolicited and unwanted. Your own post is filled with more hypocricy than my own "amateur" opinion of theatre. You tell me to quit the namecalling, yet address me in a manner emphasizing the "boy" portion of my user name here (as if this will somehow demean my intellect or insult me). You know neither my age nor my experience in the "thea-tuh" as you would probably refer to it. All I am saying is it seems fairly idiotic to walk out of a show half way through expecting the polar opposite of what anyone in that theatre full well knew they were going to be served up. It's one thing to join the boards and advise people to sell their tickets to something because you didn't appreciate half of it. It's another thing to make false judgements about board users who have been here for a while and discredit their own opinion becuase of a portion of a user name. BUt dont worry. Im sure Mike Nichols won't lose any sleep over your opinion of his work. However, I have lost some in writing this. I guess I'll go take my nap now.

[gwarbaby]

Posted: 12/26/04 at 8:05pm

Well, we just got back from the Christmas showing. I have been a Python fan since I was 8 in the 70's and my wife not as much but can sit though a movie the second time around to say that she can finally get it. The movie in my opinion lacks in many acts, the clarity as Spamalot (you don't need to view it again to get it).

The only negative I can really say is; this is the first few shows, and everything is not yet perfect and concrete... I am sure there will be additional parts added to enhance an act, and get some of the butterflies out (Some timing and the lack of improvation to enhance a seen further).

At my first attempt at the Shubert and found that you can sit too close for comfort. From row C 106 & 107, I felt a hair too close. I could only feel for the seats at the extreme left and right... too many things are happing within the most music numbers, and that some parts are not at all centered. All and all, a wonderful Christmas present to ourselves. I would say rows D - F Center Orchestra would be a great find for anyone newly introduced to the Shubert. By the way everyone did a spectacular job on stage! Even Frank lost his composure but who cares... Fetche La Vache (he just could not keep a strait face).

I'm sorry but your humor is not that funny... you must take a lesson in acting; mere words mean nothing without emotion. You could have done the LOL or :> thing to let us know more your true intentions. Reading your thread at first gave me like all the others who replied, that you just wanted to make a fried spam sandwich.

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I have seen the truly hideous... they cover themselves with leaches, eat with wolves, and sleep so loudly. Yet, I cannot bear to remove myself from such beauty. Me Updated On: 12/28/04 at 08:05 PM

Posted: 12/27/04 at 11:09am

As a "Long time listener, first time caller" I joined up just to respond to the idea that this show is a dreadful disappointment and you should sell off your tickets: I can't understand how any one could possibly feel that way especially if you are a Monty Python fan: the first act is exactly what one would expect, a talented cast "recreating" many classic scenes from the film and adding some Broadway production numbers. The second tops it and takes it in delightful directions.

I saw the show Christmas night, in a packed house and I didn't see a single person who looked like they didn't love it. The buzz is building strong on this one and I was hit up repeatedly by scalpers who were looking to buy any extra tickets.

This will be a huge, Producers-size hit and, unlike Producers, I don't think it will be star-driven at all and so will probably run better. While the cast was all delightful, you could have recast any of the leads with out seriously damaging the show. In fact, I heard many people discussing as I left: "That was David Hyde Pierce as Such-and-such?" The doubling, heavy accents and make-up makes you feel much of the (Male) cast is interechangeable.

But make no mistake: Sara Ramirez is indeed the next Diva on the Rise! Funny, cute and she has a way with a Belt!

So that's the view from one corn-fed Chicago theatre buff: I liked Spam, a lot.

Posted: 12/27/04 at 11:50am

Glad to hear they can recast the leads without ruining the show... I'm afraid this will blow up into a big hit, and then suffer the fate of Producers...

[Jon]

Posted: 12/27/04 at 1:38pm

you could rotate any numbeer of good comedic actors into the leads. Great singing and dancing not required - just the ability to be funny and do good accents!

[elphie327]

Posted: 12/27/04 at 4:36pm

I have now seen Spamalot twice, and I have to disagree with the person who started this thread. I found it to be absolutely hilarious. Granted, there are definitely things to be worked on before it hits Broadway. A song or two that should be cut (in my opinion) and some scenes reworked. But all in all, a very fine evening of theatre for Python and non-Python fans alike. To those of you who've seen it. Do you think anything needs to be reworked? Or do you want to see it move to Broadway as is. I think this could be an interesting discussion :)

[Glebb]

Posted: 12/27/04 at 4:41pm

I think they can keep everything if they just tighten it up a bit. I only saw it the final dress rehearsal but I had a great time. There was some problems with sets and it obviously needed some peformances under it's belt. But that is what a pre-Broadway run is for, no?
I'm sorry I didn't get a program and t-shirt. I've given my ticket for January 11 to someone I am fond of. I wanted to share the fun. :)

[LuluLoveChanel]

Posted: 12/28/04 at 2:44am

Gee Vinnie...I saw DRS too in San Diego (horrible little town I might add)...was it really all that bad??? The show...not the town??? Is Spamalot and other "potty humor" shows what the typical, average, knucklehead theatre-goer has to look forward to in the future??? (Someone I use to be wild for referred to me in this oh, so endearing manner). Updated On: 12/30/04 at 02:44 AM

[Necromancer07707]

Posted: 12/28/04 at 2:52pm

This is the problem with hit-or-miss humor.

[Kris2]

Posted: 12/28/04 at 3:19pm

Not much to add. Just wanted to say I just saw my very first Monty Python skit ever last night. It was called The Dead Parrot. I nearly peed my pants it was so funny. I'm pretty excited for Spamalot now and I think if they do this right, it has the potential to be a great musical comedy. I think I'll rent The Holy Grail and see what all the fuss is about.

[Dinsdale]

Posted: 12/28/04 at 5:46pm

Another newbie Chicagoan here.
Long time Python fan, relatively infrequent theater goer.
I'm very interested in hearing all of your views concerning how well you think this might play on Broadway.
I would have to imagine any Python fan would enjoy it tremendously. But I am not so sure how well it will appeal to non-fans. If you are a Python fan, you are very familiar with the phenomenon where you bring up something "hilarious" only to be met with a blank stare. My guess is that for this show to be successful, it will have to appeal to a much broader audience than hardcore Python devotees. I will be interested to hear how well it succeeds on that basis.
Another thing - different parts of Spamalot could be considered offensive to christians, jews, and gays. Will this add or detract to its bigstage allure? This is my Broadway ignorance talking.
Also, I thought the very end was pretty weak. My only real complaint about the show. Of course, the movie did not have the strongest resolution imaginable. But I hope they come up with something better.
I also thought the "self referential" card got overplayed a bit - the play-about-a-play inside joking - "this is where we should sing a song that goes like this"; "we've broken the fourth wall"; etc. Very much in line with Python. I'm just not sure how well that will play with theater audiences paying top dollar.
I agree that Sara Ramirez was excellent. I've never been a huge David Hyde Pierce fan, and this show did not convert me. Thought Azaria was very good and surprisingly enjoyed Tim Curry's campiness. Tho I agree, the show does not clearly depend on any one of them.
I'm enjoying the discussion here. I'm a little surprised and disappointed that I have not seen any reviews in the Chicago press - or elsewhere on the net. Is this common for a pre-NY preview? I seem to recall there was a lot more buzz when the Producers was in town.

[gwarbaby]

Posted: 12/28/04 at 9:28pm

Yes, you are very much correct on your view of the play. I think if anyone is to enjoy the non-norm content, they must have an open mind. I can say that most of the humor is Python but there are many pokes and jabs to all that is stage.

I enjoyed the 1st part more than the 2nd but thought the 2nd pulled everything together, which can give most none Python fans an ending to a mess of mishaps if you will. Like all stage performances Spamalot is a sugarcoated version of insanity. People may be too uptight and too political now these days to appreciate or welcome it. I think it will not be as strong as it is now in Broadway due to the lack of popularity in NY. Look at how many are interested in Wicked, The Producers, and so on.

The problem I think is it does not have a song that will give it clout… I am amazed that Sara Ramirez let her talent be overshadowed by lighthearted mockery. Ok, I’ll spoil a few instances… The cow song, did the play need it? The ending was not fitting; Tim can sing ok, but a duet with a diva? Like I say only if there was a song worth Sara’s effort then there will be better praise. All in all well pieced together than the original for us normal people.


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If I were as popular as you, then I would have to make you my enemy. Me again

[Jon]

Posted: 12/28/04 at 9:35pm

There have not been any reviews yet because the Press Opening isn't until one week before the Chicago engagement closes - in other words, four weeks of "previews" and one week of "performances"!

As far as potentially "offensive" humor, have you seen THE PRODUCERS? After "Springtime for Hitler", is anything really taboo?

[Dinsdale]

Posted: 12/29/04 at 9:07am

Thanks for the review schedule info, Jon.

I agree that Springtime for Hitler pretty much pushed the bar to an extreme - 30 some years ago no less in the movie. But I feel that number was at least more in context. They were trying to put on the most preposterous show conceivable which would flop.

Don't get me wrong. I really liked Spamalot's "Jews" song, and Lancelot's Peter Allen-ish turn. But in some respect they struck me somewhat more as schtick, than necessary to the plot. An attempt to outrage. Combined with the potty humor that is essential to much of Python. I love it. I'm just not sure how well it will sell to a broader audience.

And I agree, there is no real "signature" song. Yeah, I find myself humming "I'm not dead yet" and "My name is Lancelot, I like to prance a lot." And "Always look on the bright side of life" has been a classic since "Life of Brian." But I sure don't see any signature tunes becoming adopted into divas' and lounge singers' repertoires, a successful soundtrack, etc.

Another aspect that struck me as "schtick" was the frequent reference to other Broadway shows. The dance number from West Side Story, the Phantom chandelier, and so many more. (I would find it interesting to have folks list all of the references they noted. I'm sure I caught no more than half of them.) Again, this was one aspect that made me question whether Spamalot really stood alone, or if it contained too much that was merely satirical commentary on other shows.

Also, the blatant underlying theme of, "We want to make it to Broadway." It wasn't about a company or indiviual's experiences in show business. Instead, more of an artificual device to move the show along. Just made me wonder how audiences would receive the show. Struck me as - um - not the most creative approach imaginable.

Like I said, I'm new here. Please let me know if I ought not be discussing things as I am this early in the show's previews. Thanks for your comments.

[Theatreboy33]

Posted: 12/29/04 at 10:46am

You make many good points Dinsdale (much better/effective than those of our dearly departed friend scott who started this thread). I saw the show last night and sat third row in front of eric idol which was quite the thrill. I thought it was just drop-dead hillarious, and the great music really surprised me as well. Now, onto improvements--as for the need for a signature song, I dont really see a great need for one. DOes Producers (the show everyone seems to compare this to) have one? And even then, i would think "find your grail" would be the song. As for the outlandish jew/peter allen/phantom-like songs, I think they work, but need better book scenes surrounding them. Right now, they seem to come from absolutely nowhere. Of course, this is Python-esque humor, but when you get to a musical theatre transfer, you DO have to follow some rules. Mel Brooks, a young man growing up in the new york musical comedy theatre scene, understood this. The Producers, the film was pure biting satire. BUt he knew that a broadway transfer meant that he needed the added musical comedy element of HEART. WHat I mean by this, is even through all the mayhem, all the zany numbers and slapstick, the show needs to drive at something more human. IN producers, this is apparent in the change that Leo goes through and the true friendship that forms between max and leo. Its a crazy/hillarious show. BUt when we get to the courtroom scene in which max and leo sing to each other completely genuinely, one can't help but see the "Heart" that Spamalot may be lacking right now. Sitting in the audience, I kept waiting for a somewhat heartfelt reuKNIGHTing (youll get it when you see it) of all the knights, and some realization that they had all helped each other find their grail somehow. What it lacks right now is a sense of comraderie between the men. Even though they are all off on their own adventures, they are all striving for the same thing. ANd thats where the real heart can come through. BUt other than this, it is a wonderfully funny show, that with the addition of heart, could be monumental. BUt thats what out of town tryouts are for, and if I have confidence in anyone, it would be the experienced Eric Idol and Mike Nichols. Good luck, great show.

Posted: 12/29/04 at 11:35am

You know, the thing that bothered me about the score (although it certainly didn't ruin my evening) was that I'm tired of "new" scores that are all pastiches of old songs. The Producers, Hairspray, Avenue Q (And now Spamalot) all build on familiar themes, melodies and styles. As an "old guy" I vividly recall hearing a score like "Merrily We Roll Along" and being knocked out by it's complete and utter "freshness." Oh well. I guess it's all been done before.

As for the "offensiveness" level of Spamalot, I don't see it. Jews & Gays seem to LOVE to see themselves portrayed on stage (The Gay marriage joke was perhaps the biggest laugh of the evening) and the two numbers are undeniably the high point of the show. I think the show will do even better with a Broadway audience BECAUSE of all the little self-referential jokes.

And I LOVED the ending! I thought it was a great way to wind up the night (Always an issue in Python-land) and the audience loved it.

And as far as cuts go, the only number I felt was truly unneeded was the Cow Song. I loved Sara's voice, but in an evening full of absurdity and non-sequiter, it was the one moment I said "What the hell?"

I did feel the lack of "Heart" but it didn't ruin it for me. I do think that being really really funny is enough....

[gwarbaby]

Posted: 12/29/04 at 1:55pm

Well, after reading everyone's feedback... I have to say that it is more or less what you expect before you see this show. Yes you have a good idea, but to get carried away and be let down by what you did not expect. Also there are those like me or my wife that have a parallel sense of humor... sounds strange but is the only way I can explain it. My wife and I share a lot of different types of humor. But there are instances if you will that we are far a part. Some of which can be explained by opinionated bad feelings. She will not see any thing Mel Brookes, while I like pretty much all his stuff. Yet there is a more darker side to my humor than what she says is not acceptable. I can watch "Natural Born Killers" or "Killer Clowns from Outer Space" and laugh. None of which did well when was released. Imagine "Natural Born Killers" as musical on Broadway!

Well as you can see I am not very much opionated as most.

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Some people like to chew Butt Stake... Others order Prime Rib and get Butt Stake... And the complainers expect Fillet Mignon when they order Butt Stake. Updated On: 12/29/04 at 01:55 PM

[Christopher_Acts]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 5:49pm

While I do feel that "The Cow Song" is completely unnecessary as well..it DOES serve two purposes

a.) It adds to the effect of "The Diva's Lament" that she was indeed in EVERYTHING in the first act and is forgotten in the second up to that point.

b.) It gives Sara Ramirez more oppurtunities to show how awesome she is and how well she can change her vocal style.

Um...inside references...they were countless

anyone catch the Company and Fosse references?...I was dying at those and no one else in my seating area got them.

[commasplice]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 6:06pm

Christopher, I definitely caught the Company reference, and for a while I thought I got it wrong because I was cracking up, but I was the only one in my section who was. I missed the Fosse reference, though. What was it?

I definitely agree with you on point "a" about the cow song.

On a random note, now that I finally figured out where "I'm Not Dead Yet" is on the Spamalot webpage, I've had it stuck in my head.

[BreakingTheCircle07]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 8:26pm

LOL ChristopherActs I was at the Wednesday evening performance and when Christian sang "another undred people just contracted the plauge" I laughed SO loud my buddies on the main floor hear me all the way from the balcony (no one else seemed to get it).

BTW...the reason this whole thread started was an immature way to be stand out, be different, and offend for no reason other than to be 'different.' I applaud everyone for standing up to him and voicing their opinions (all of which were better than his )

[Christopher_Acts]

Posted: 12/31/04 at 1:24am

The Fosse reference comes in the second act when all the knights cross the stage three times..

The first time they bust out into a tap dance

The third time they broke into West Side Story

The SECOND TIME...the broke out into an all out Fosse-movement fest...I was dying to say the least, athought, of the three bits, that got the least reaction.

It makes me wonder how much knowledge of musical theatre I have...lol Updated On: 12/31/04 at 01:24 AM