How is it racist? — Page 5
#102
Posted: 3/1/12 at 1:27pm
PalJoey: Hey, Idiot--are you as much of an idiot in real life or do you just come to BroadwayWorld to be an idiot.
I'd like to believe you were actually an intelligent human being, but since you've never exhibited a single intelligent syllable in the 1 year, 4 months and 20 days you've been posting here, I'll just take you at your word.
You're an idiot, Idiot."
Hmm. Okay.
Yesterday I made a comment that was meant to imply that there are people who see racism in ridiculous places. This is true. Not idiotic.
Some poster I'm not familiar with decided to take me to task as though the clearly absurd phrasing of said comment was literal -- as though someone would actually think copy paper was racist. In other words, they didn't get the turn of phrase. Not seeing anything idiotic so far.
I decided, "Ah what the hell, I'll play," and ribbed him back without concern for decorum or politeness -- the same way he was treating me. A little nasty to be sure, but nasty is certainly not off limits around here. Not idiotic yet.
I'm still quite pleased with 'Getovah Yosef'. The other one needed work.
So that's what happened, Pal Joey. What's your problem?
I'd like to believe you were actually an intelligent human being, but since you've never exhibited a single intelligent syllable in the 1 year, 4 months and 20 days you've been posting here, I'll just take you at your word.
You're an idiot, Idiot."
Hmm. Okay.
Yesterday I made a comment that was meant to imply that there are people who see racism in ridiculous places. This is true. Not idiotic.
Some poster I'm not familiar with decided to take me to task as though the clearly absurd phrasing of said comment was literal -- as though someone would actually think copy paper was racist. In other words, they didn't get the turn of phrase. Not seeing anything idiotic so far.
I decided, "Ah what the hell, I'll play," and ribbed him back without concern for decorum or politeness -- the same way he was treating me. A little nasty to be sure, but nasty is certainly not off limits around here. Not idiotic yet.
I'm still quite pleased with 'Getovah Yosef'. The other one needed work.
So that's what happened, Pal Joey. What's your problem?
#103
Posted: 3/1/12 at 2:09pm
"The beef that black performers have is that there is a scarcity of quality roles for us. After there were NO black nominees last year--which wasn't a surprise, seeing as how very few of us were in any major movies in substantial roles--this year feels like a slap in the face to many black people, as the only actresses nominated this year were playing maids--shades of Hattie McDaniel. I think anyone with a modicum of sensitivity and knowledge of American history would see why Black people might have a problem with this, despite the fact that the story is an intriguing one and that the film moved many people (I personally hated it, for various reasons, but it's not necessarily a terrible movie). On a side note, adding further fuel to the fire surrounding this film is the fact that a white woman wrote the original novel--a topic that had many tongues in the black community wagging. But that is beside the point."
my 2 cents....
So since good nominated roles are few and far between, are we just supposed to give a black actor an award because it may be 2 years or so before another one comes up? I don't feel like this year was a slap in the face. These two woman turned in wonderful performances in a very good movie. It is a movie based on a book. Yes, the writer was white and wrote it based on what she thought might be going through the mind of the black domestic worker that kind of raised her. She lived in Jackson. So did you want Meryl and Julia to play the parts? Like it or not, these things ARE a part of our history. As a black person I am glad they have been brought to the big screen and even to the stage (Caroline or Change). If they weren't than black people would be screaming that hollywood is ignoring that part of history. You can't have things both ways. And black actors have not just played nannys, etc over the years. It just seems that when they do and don't get awarded for it, black people get all upset. And here are just a few Black actors who have won an Oscar that weren't playing maids, nannies, etc: Whoopie Goldberg, Jennifer Hudson, Cuba Gooding, Jr., Louis Gossett, Jr. Not to mention other African Americans who have won in other categories. Yes, it would be nice to see more black people win but it would also be nice to see Asians and Hispanics win also. Just my random thoughts.
my 2 cents....
So since good nominated roles are few and far between, are we just supposed to give a black actor an award because it may be 2 years or so before another one comes up? I don't feel like this year was a slap in the face. These two woman turned in wonderful performances in a very good movie. It is a movie based on a book. Yes, the writer was white and wrote it based on what she thought might be going through the mind of the black domestic worker that kind of raised her. She lived in Jackson. So did you want Meryl and Julia to play the parts? Like it or not, these things ARE a part of our history. As a black person I am glad they have been brought to the big screen and even to the stage (Caroline or Change). If they weren't than black people would be screaming that hollywood is ignoring that part of history. You can't have things both ways. And black actors have not just played nannys, etc over the years. It just seems that when they do and don't get awarded for it, black people get all upset. And here are just a few Black actors who have won an Oscar that weren't playing maids, nannies, etc: Whoopie Goldberg, Jennifer Hudson, Cuba Gooding, Jr., Louis Gossett, Jr. Not to mention other African Americans who have won in other categories. Yes, it would be nice to see more black people win but it would also be nice to see Asians and Hispanics win also. Just my random thoughts.
Just give the world Love. - S. Wonder
#104
Posted: 3/1/12 at 2:17pm
Great point uncageg! I think that people of other nationalities and races deserve recognition, besides those that are taped in Documentary films.
Random Question? Has an Asian won Best Actor or Actress? Also where in the world is Cate Blanchett? She needs to get back on the screen and give that Meryl a run for her money!
Random Question? Has an Asian won Best Actor or Actress? Also where in the world is Cate Blanchett? She needs to get back on the screen and give that Meryl a run for her money!
#105
Posted: 3/1/12 at 2:33pm
Random Question? Has an Asian won Best Actor or Actress?
Jonathan Pryce!
Jonathan Pryce!
....but the world goes 'round
#106
An Asian or Asian-American?
Posted: 3/1/12 at 2:37pm
An Asian or Asian-American?
CHURCH DOOR TOUCAN GAY MARKETING PUPPIES MUSICAL THEATER STAPLES PERIOD OIL BITCHY SNARK HOLES
#107
Posted: 3/1/12 at 2:40pm
Yul Brynner and Ben Kingsley are of Asian descent.
Updated On: 3/1/12 at 02:40 PM
#108
Posted: 3/1/12 at 2:40pm
Or an American-Asian?
....but the world goes 'round
#109
Posted: 3/1/12 at 2:43pm
Miyoshi Umeki is the only person of East Asian descent to win an Oscar for acting, and she won for Best Supporting Actress.
When I see the phrase "the ____ estate", I imagine a vast mansion in the country full of monocled men and high-collared women receiving letters about productions across the country and doing spit-takes at whatever they contain.
-Kad
#110
Posted: 3/1/12 at 2:48pm
Haing S. Nor, from Cambodia, won Best Supporting Actor in 1984.
For reference, Wikipedia has articles on Asian and Black Oscar nominees and winners:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Asian_Academy_Award_winners_and_nominees
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_Academy_Award_winners_and_nominees
For reference, Wikipedia has articles on Asian and Black Oscar nominees and winners:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Asian_Academy_Award_winners_and_nominees
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_Academy_Award_winners_and_nominees
#111
Posted: 3/1/12 at 2:50pm
Ben Kingsley is of Asian descent, and won for Gandhi.
Whoops - someone beat me to it...
I'm not sure, however, that Brynner actually was Asian - his background was always so murky. He was, probably, almost entirely Russian; he definitely was Russian culturally.
Whoops - someone beat me to it...
I'm not sure, however, that Brynner actually was Asian - his background was always so murky. He was, probably, almost entirely Russian; he definitely was Russian culturally.
Updated On: 3/1/12 at 02:50 PM
#112
Posted: 3/1/12 at 3:04pm
Of course, Tilda Swinton was snubbed this year because she was TOO white...but no one ever talks about that.
"Impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in the world they've been given than to explore the power they have to change it. Impossible is not a fact. It's an opinion. Impossible is not a declaration. It's a dare. Impossible is potential. Impossible is temporary. Impossible is nothing.”
~ Muhammad Ali
#113
Posted: 3/1/12 at 3:08pm
And it's obvious why poor Betty "White" has never won.
#114
Posted: 3/1/12 at 3:12pm
What about Jack Black and Karen Black? Robbed!
Although Dustin Lance Black did win...
Although Dustin Lance Black did win...
#116
Posted: 3/1/12 at 3:18pm
This is part of an ABC News/AP piece done after the Oscars:
"The fear was Viola winning or 'The Help' winning would've validated keeping alive an image that many black folks found stereotypical, inaccurate and overall problematic," he said in an interview. "A win was seen as a setback."
Not for Barbara Young, who has worked for 17 years as a domestic worker and is an organizer for the National Domestic Workers Alliance. Watching the film, Young cried when Davis' character was separated from a white child she had endured several such partings in real life.
Young traveled from New York to Los Angeles for an Oscar viewing party organized by the National Domestic Workers Alliance. When Streep's name was called instead of Davis', the room of 50 people let out a huge groan.
"It was a very sad situation in that room," said Young, an immigrant from Barbados. "I was disappointed, but I was very grateful to the producers of the movie for bringing domestic work to the forefront."
She saw a simple reason for the criticism of the maid role: "It's not recognized as real work."
Davis certainly knows that it's real work her mother and grandmother both toiled as maids.
During Oscar season, Davis consistently advocated for a wider range of black roles. "I've played a lot of drug addicts," she said in an interview with Terry Gross of NPR.
And she told Tavis Smiley that black people who are ambivalent about "The Help" have a mindset that is "absolutely destroying the black artist," because it forces black actors to water down their performances to avoid character flaws that might offend oversensitive black audiences.
"The black artist cannot live in the place in a revisionist place," Davis told Smiley. "The black artist can only tell the truth about humanity, and humanity is messy."
The people quoted in the article don't even mention the black actors I mentioned in my earlier post.
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/blacks-mix-emotions-oscar-night-15803783
"The fear was Viola winning or 'The Help' winning would've validated keeping alive an image that many black folks found stereotypical, inaccurate and overall problematic," he said in an interview. "A win was seen as a setback."
Not for Barbara Young, who has worked for 17 years as a domestic worker and is an organizer for the National Domestic Workers Alliance. Watching the film, Young cried when Davis' character was separated from a white child she had endured several such partings in real life.
Young traveled from New York to Los Angeles for an Oscar viewing party organized by the National Domestic Workers Alliance. When Streep's name was called instead of Davis', the room of 50 people let out a huge groan.
"It was a very sad situation in that room," said Young, an immigrant from Barbados. "I was disappointed, but I was very grateful to the producers of the movie for bringing domestic work to the forefront."
She saw a simple reason for the criticism of the maid role: "It's not recognized as real work."
Davis certainly knows that it's real work her mother and grandmother both toiled as maids.
During Oscar season, Davis consistently advocated for a wider range of black roles. "I've played a lot of drug addicts," she said in an interview with Terry Gross of NPR.
And she told Tavis Smiley that black people who are ambivalent about "The Help" have a mindset that is "absolutely destroying the black artist," because it forces black actors to water down their performances to avoid character flaws that might offend oversensitive black audiences.
"The black artist cannot live in the place in a revisionist place," Davis told Smiley. "The black artist can only tell the truth about humanity, and humanity is messy."
The people quoted in the article don't even mention the black actors I mentioned in my earlier post.
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/blacks-mix-emotions-oscar-night-15803783
Just give the world Love. - S. Wonder
#117
'And it's obvious why poor Betty "White" has never won.'
?? She was nominated for "Lake Placid."
Posted: 3/1/12 at 3:20pm
'And it's obvious why poor Betty "White" has never won.'
?? She was nominated for "Lake Placid."
CHURCH DOOR TOUCAN GAY MARKETING PUPPIES MUSICAL THEATER STAPLES PERIOD OIL BITCHY SNARK HOLES
#118
Posted: 3/1/12 at 3:34pm
"Has an Asian actor or actress won best actor or actress"
Kingsley's father was Indian and Brynner's grandmother was 1/8 Mongolian. That makes Kingsley 1/2 Indian and Brynner 1/32nd Mongolian.
So I guess you could say that 17/32 of an Asian actor has won a best actor or actress oscar.
You'd sound like a fool, of course, but you could say that.
Brynner was also born in Siberia, but if we were to consider that, we should also consider that Julie Christie was born in India and Olivia de Havilland and Joan Fontaine were born in Japan.
Merle Oberon is said to be the first oscar nominee who was at least partly Asian (her exact origins are unclear, but she was most likely part Ceylonese and Chinese). More recently, Asian acting nominees have included Topol (Israeli born Israeli), Jennifer and Meg Tilly (half Chinese Americans), Salma Hayek (half Lebanese Mexican American), Shohreh Aghdashloo (Iranian American) Noriyuki "Pat" Morita, Mako and Sessue Hayakawa (Japanese Americans) and Rinko Kikuchi and Ken Watanabe (Japanese). In addition to Umeki and Ngor who have won.
Of course, a great many highly acclaimed Asian actors, including a great many who are not American (like a great many celebrated foreign actors who are not Asian) have not received oscar nominations.
Kingsley's father was Indian and Brynner's grandmother was 1/8 Mongolian. That makes Kingsley 1/2 Indian and Brynner 1/32nd Mongolian.
So I guess you could say that 17/32 of an Asian actor has won a best actor or actress oscar.
You'd sound like a fool, of course, but you could say that.
Brynner was also born in Siberia, but if we were to consider that, we should also consider that Julie Christie was born in India and Olivia de Havilland and Joan Fontaine were born in Japan.
Merle Oberon is said to be the first oscar nominee who was at least partly Asian (her exact origins are unclear, but she was most likely part Ceylonese and Chinese). More recently, Asian acting nominees have included Topol (Israeli born Israeli), Jennifer and Meg Tilly (half Chinese Americans), Salma Hayek (half Lebanese Mexican American), Shohreh Aghdashloo (Iranian American) Noriyuki "Pat" Morita, Mako and Sessue Hayakawa (Japanese Americans) and Rinko Kikuchi and Ken Watanabe (Japanese). In addition to Umeki and Ngor who have won.
Of course, a great many highly acclaimed Asian actors, including a great many who are not American (like a great many celebrated foreign actors who are not Asian) have not received oscar nominations.
Updated On: 3/1/12 at 03:34 PM
#119
Posted: 3/1/12 at 3:39pm
Just looked over those lists and really Academy? "It's Hard Out Here for A Pimp," wins best song?
#120
Posted: 3/1/12 at 3:59pm
Let's try to put this in perspective.
If Norm Lewis were to lose the tony to Danny Burstein, that would not be racist.
On the other hand, if he were to lose it to Harry Connick, Jr...
If Norm Lewis were to lose the tony to Danny Burstein, that would not be racist.
On the other hand, if he were to lose it to Harry Connick, Jr...
#121
Posted: 3/1/12 at 4:08pm
If anyone lost to Harry we would have a much larger problem than racism to deal with.
Epic bad taste.
Epic bad taste.
....but the world goes 'round
#122
Posted: 3/1/12 at 4:46pm
Sorry, but the idea that this much thought goes through the mind of each member of the Academy when checking a box on a ballot is even more ludicrous than the idea that Meryl won because she is white and Viola lost because she is black or that racism had anything to do with it. Meanwhile, apparently Obama murdered Breitbart.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#123
Posted: 3/2/12 at 2:23am
This all sounds like placing agendas on things... awards... movie roles...
The Help was a story. The fact that it featured black maids was part of the story and is part of our nation's history. Are we to never tell stories that take place in the past so that we can never cast an african american in an "offensive" role? Pretending the past never happened will get you no where. I'm pretty sure the point of The Help was not that all black people are maids or should be maids, so...
Also, Meryl Streep won an award against SEVERAL other actors. She wasn't up against only Viola Davis, no matter what the pundits said beforehand. Saying that it had anything to do with race is to place an agenda on something without merit. It's a subjective process and Meryl streep is definitely a wonderful actor, soooo....
The Help was a story. The fact that it featured black maids was part of the story and is part of our nation's history. Are we to never tell stories that take place in the past so that we can never cast an african american in an "offensive" role? Pretending the past never happened will get you no where. I'm pretty sure the point of The Help was not that all black people are maids or should be maids, so...
Also, Meryl Streep won an award against SEVERAL other actors. She wasn't up against only Viola Davis, no matter what the pundits said beforehand. Saying that it had anything to do with race is to place an agenda on something without merit. It's a subjective process and Meryl streep is definitely a wonderful actor, soooo....
#124
Posted: 3/2/12 at 8:59am
Also, let's examine what makes these "offensive" roles offensive. Because, frankly, I don't get it.
The premise that the role of a black female domestic is on its face offensive seems on its face racist, sexist and classist. Let alone the role of a black female domestic who, like Abilene and Minnie, dares to stand up to power at great risk to herself.
No one seems to think, nor should they, of an oppressed laborer in a factory as a per se offensive role. Perhaps an oppressed laborer inside the home has some kind of stamp of demoralization (at least when that domestic laborer happens to be black and a woman). Perhaps that has something to do with the fact that we consider domestic work to be less valuable because it is work traditionally done by women.
Then again, no one seemed to have any problem with Anthony Hopkins playing a male domestic servant who doesn't stand up to power in Remains of the Day and getting an oscar nomination for it. No one seems to have a problem with Jean Marsh returning to Rose in Upstairs, Downstairs either, or to the many fine perforrmances in Downton Abbey by actors playing domestics. (Maybe it's different in Merry Old White England). And, it must be said, these characters were hardly oppressed relative to Minnie and Abilene. Far from it. But why should playing an oppressed woman equate with playing an objectionable role? And one need look no further than Bronte and Dickens to see a multitude of English servants (and non-domestic workers) who were oppressed. No one argues that playing these parts is beneath an actor's dignity.
Underlying all of this perhaps is the valid concern that there should be an increased quantity and quality of roles for black actors and actresses. I couldn't agree more. But that doesn't make the subject matter of The Help (no matter what one thinks of the movie itself or its precise treatment) any less worthy of dramatization. Nor does it make the roles of black female domestics in 1960s Alabama offensive roles.
The premise that the role of a black female domestic is on its face offensive seems on its face racist, sexist and classist. Let alone the role of a black female domestic who, like Abilene and Minnie, dares to stand up to power at great risk to herself.
No one seems to think, nor should they, of an oppressed laborer in a factory as a per se offensive role. Perhaps an oppressed laborer inside the home has some kind of stamp of demoralization (at least when that domestic laborer happens to be black and a woman). Perhaps that has something to do with the fact that we consider domestic work to be less valuable because it is work traditionally done by women.
Then again, no one seemed to have any problem with Anthony Hopkins playing a male domestic servant who doesn't stand up to power in Remains of the Day and getting an oscar nomination for it. No one seems to have a problem with Jean Marsh returning to Rose in Upstairs, Downstairs either, or to the many fine perforrmances in Downton Abbey by actors playing domestics. (Maybe it's different in Merry Old White England). And, it must be said, these characters were hardly oppressed relative to Minnie and Abilene. Far from it. But why should playing an oppressed woman equate with playing an objectionable role? And one need look no further than Bronte and Dickens to see a multitude of English servants (and non-domestic workers) who were oppressed. No one argues that playing these parts is beneath an actor's dignity.
Underlying all of this perhaps is the valid concern that there should be an increased quantity and quality of roles for black actors and actresses. I couldn't agree more. But that doesn't make the subject matter of The Help (no matter what one thinks of the movie itself or its precise treatment) any less worthy of dramatization. Nor does it make the roles of black female domestics in 1960s Alabama offensive roles.
#125
Posted: 3/2/12 at 9:23am
Henrikgerman, the reason people found it offensive is that it is basically a white savior film. Neither Minny nor Abileen would have been inspired to stand up for herself had it not been for a white girl. Skeeter is the catalyst that gets Abileen and Minny to tell their stories, and Celia Foote and her husband promise Minny lifetime employment (it is also implied that they give her the guest house), which gives her the courage to leave her abusive husband. According to the movie, none of these things would've happened had it not been for the encouragement and support of white people. Surely, there are other, better ways to tell the plight of Southern Civil Rights-era domestics than through the eyes of a white protagonist.
Salve, Regina, Mater misericordiae
Vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra
Salve, Salve Regina
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Eva
Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes
O clemens O pia
Vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra
Salve, Salve Regina
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Eva
Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes
O clemens O pia
Tickets From $59
Tickets From $71
Tickets From $71
Tickets From $95