I loathe the term and hatred toward "JUKE BOX Musicals"
I loathe the term and hatred toward "JUKE BOX Musicals"
MackieManiac
Understudy Joined: 8/9/05
#0I loathe the term and hatred toward "JUKE BOX Musicals"
Posted: 9/21/05 at 10:23am
I am so sick of all the bile toward "Juke Box Musicals"
Someone tell me what the difference is between writing an original Book and using a preexistig catalogue of music for the score (All Shook Up, Good Vibrations, Mamma Mia)... and writing a new score and using a pre-existing book (Hairspray, Producers, Spamelot.. etc).
Was CRAZY FOR YOU a "Juke Box Musical?" By definition.. yes.. as were most of the early musicals on Broadway. They were mostly thin books written to help showcase the latest songs from the hot writers of the day.
I for one would take a thousand ALL SHOOK UPS over one SEUSSICAL. Are there BAD musicals of this genre.. yes... are there good ones.. yes. I just dont get the damnation of the whole genre over a few bad ones... and I am not putting ALL SHOOK UP in the BAD ONES category.. I had agreat time.. but I love the 60's movies it was styled after. It suffered from people not getting that it was a tribute to a period (No one writes "jiggley wiggley" into diologue and expects it to be taken seriously). It is sort of the same way DOWN WITH LOVE was misunderstood by the general public.
#1re: I loathe the term and hatred toward 'JUKE BOX Musicals'
Posted: 9/21/05 at 10:29am
here here.
just because they use something pre-existing...people get confused and have preconceived knowledge about how the show will actually be.
#2re: I loathe the term and hatred toward 'JUKE BOX Musicals'
Posted: 9/21/05 at 10:34am
I tend to dislike "jukebox musicals" simply because there hasn't been one in recent years using the music of an artist I really like. (All Shook Up being the exception)
I am not a huge fan of Billy Joel and don't care for Abba at all. Lennon is extremely intriquing to me, but alas, it's closing.
Now, if a U2, REM or Madonna musical were suddenly produced I'd be right there.
#3re: I loathe the term and hatred toward 'JUKE BOX Musicals'
Posted: 9/21/05 at 10:35am
Well, hate the term all you want - but that's what they are.
I suppose that yes, by definition, CRAZY FOR YOU could be considered a jukebox musical of sorts. However, CRAZY FOR YOU had an excellent creative team behind it and turned it into somethng new and exciting. It had a strong cast, strong choreography, and a strong book - something that can't be said for any of the jukebox musicals.
And yes, there is a difference between something like ALL SHOOK UP and "new" musicals like HAIRSPRAY, THE PRODUCERS, SPAMALOT, etc. Especiallt HAIRPSRAY. They simply don't photocopy the screenplay, and insert original music. The entire show is taken apart, re-written, and resassembled. That certainly can't be said with the scores of ABBA, Elvis, Lennon, or the Beach Boys for their respective shows, now can it?
You would take a thousand ALL SHOOK UPs over a new musical, like SEUSSICAL? Well then, I pity you, and I hope to God that many people don't think like that. Where would we be without original musicals? Jukebox musicals have absolutely (thus far) no artistic merit to them. It's all about fun and, generally, only two have succeeded at the fun aspect (MAMMA MIA, ALL SHOOK UP.)
I don't think ALL SHOOK UP was misunderstood by anyone. It's very clear what the show is, and it's very clear what it's trying to be. We get it. It just didn't work out. Yes, I had a great time at ALL SHOOK UP. I laughed, and I certainly couldn't wait for the recording to come out. I enjoyed myself. But do I think that the closing of an essentially recycled version of THE TWELFTH NIGHT with Elvis music is a grand and utter travesty? Absolutely not. I don't understand your viewpoint. I'm afraid to ask you what you think of Sondheim...
"If you are going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy."
-Charlie Manson
robbiej
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/20/03
#4re: I loathe the term and hatred toward 'JUKE BOX Musicals'
Posted: 9/21/05 at 10:35amThere's a difference between CRAZY FOR YOU and ALL SHOOK UP (which I didn't see, so I would never comment on its quality). The Gershwin score consisted of songs written for the theatre, as well as for popular consumption. The have a construction that is theatrical and that expresses character. The songs were used to tell a story. The music sung by Elvis does not have that kind of construction, which makes squeezing them into a story very difficult. Many feel that to make such a thing work (if it can indeed EVER work in the same way CAROUSEL of GYPSY works), one needs an extraordinary book to tie it all together and justify a song's existence in the story.
"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."
sondheimfan2
Swing Joined: 9/20/05
#5re: I loathe the term and hatred toward 'JUKE BOX Musicals'
Posted: 9/21/05 at 10:36am
There is a difference between shows like Crazy for You and the recent shows using Pop music which wasn't written specifically for a storyline.
The songs in Crazy for You were written for shows and were designed to be part of the story. The pop music in Mamma Mia, All Shook Up, Boy From Oz, Lennon, have absolutely no ties to the storyline. They are crammed into a book show and are awkward at best. The only time they work for the most part is when they are part of a revue and not a book show (Smokey Joe's Cafe, etc.)
I personally detest jukebox musicals. The Boy From Oz was the last one I saw and I have no intention on seeing any others.
I understand a producer's desire to use material well known to the general public, however considering the recent bombs, I doubt we will be seeing any more jukebox shows for a while, hopefully.
robbiej
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/20/03
#6re: I loathe the term and hatred toward 'JUKE BOX Musicals'
Posted: 9/21/05 at 10:40amDid we all post at the same time???
"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."
sondheimfan2
Swing Joined: 9/20/05
#7re: I loathe the term and hatred toward 'JUKE BOX Musicals'
Posted: 9/21/05 at 10:43amI believe we did!
#8re: I loathe the term and hatred toward 'JUKE BOX Musicals'
Posted: 9/21/05 at 10:43am
Ahh yes RobbieJ.. but weren't a bunch of Elvis' songs written for his movies as part of the plot? If that were the case, it's similar to the gershwins writing songs for theatricality and popular consumption.
One (and I am saying one) difference that is at stake here is that it's a different period in time. We aren't in the 30s, 40s and 50s. It's 2005 and "popular" music isn't what it was. You don't turn on the "popular" radio stations and hear Gershwin or anything remotely similar. You here what's "popular" today.
A large part of contemporary art will always be just that - contemporary and reflecting the time it was created.
Off on a tangent here - but this is one of the reasons I HATE the term "dated". Of course shows, movies, etc are "dated" - so what? That doesn't mean they need to change in order to be relevant, important or worthy of seeing in tact.
Finally - as I post often - I don't care one iota the source material as long as it's a good show...creatively and artistically. And I would never not see something or criticize something based on its genre - but rather on its own merits.
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men" - Willy Wonka
sanda
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/10/04
#9re: I loathe the term and hatred toward 'JUKE BOX Musicals'
Posted: 9/21/05 at 10:47amWho cares? I love Mamamia!
#10re: I loathe the term and hatred toward 'JUKE BOX Musicals'
Posted: 9/21/05 at 10:49ammy feelings exactly, craig.
"I'm an American, Damnit!!! And if it's three things I don't believe in, it's quitting and math."
magruder
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/15/03
#11re: I loathe the term and hatred toward 'JUKE BOX Musicals'
Posted: 9/21/05 at 10:49amJust my opinion, but I thought a lot of the songs in Crazy for You were somewhat haphazardly placed and undermotivated. The Stroman choreography and the production values carried the day for me.
"Gif me the cobra jool!"
#12re: I loathe the term and hatred toward 'JUKE BOX Musicals'
Posted: 9/21/05 at 10:49amI don't hate the idea of exsisting cataloge shows, I simply depise the terrible terrible books that are usually associated with them. However I can't say much anymore as I am now in the process of writing one myself.
I got rid of my teeth at a young age because... I'm straight. Teeth are for gay people. That's why fairies come and get them
#13re: I loathe the term and hatred toward 'JUKE BOX Musicals'
Posted: 9/21/05 at 10:51amExactly, they're not all bad. The idea of them doesn't annoy me - the crap annoys me. There's a reason MOVIN' OUT is still running...
"If you are going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy."
-Charlie Manson
touchmeinthemorning
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/3/04
#14re: I loathe the term and hatred toward 'JUKE BOX Musicals'
Posted: 9/21/05 at 10:52am
I think the term "dated" is overused. It should not be used as a critique of a period show that knows it is a period show.
However, when describing something that is trying to be "hip" and "up-to-date" that is neither hip nor up-to-date, I find the term "dated" to be useful.
"Fundamentalism means never having to say 'I'm wrong.'"
-- unknown
#15re: I loathe the term and hatred toward 'JUKE BOX Musicals'
Posted: 9/21/05 at 10:53am
EXACTLY.
That's like when people call RENT dated, I get annoyed. RENT isn't dated if it takes place in the early 90's.
"If you are going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy."
-Charlie Manson
robbiej
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/20/03
#16re: I loathe the term and hatred toward 'JUKE BOX Musicals'
Posted: 9/21/05 at 10:54am
I think magruder points out that whether you're using Gershwin songs or Lennon songs, they must be put into a show with care and craft.
Either that or hire a GREAT arranger and choreographer.
"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."
Updated On: 9/21/05 at 10:54 AM
#17re: I loathe the term and hatred toward 'JUKE BOX Musicals'
Posted: 9/21/05 at 10:55am
I believe that there's room for everything in the theater. I have nothing against jukebox musicals, as long as there aren't TOO many of them, because I don't think there should be too much of anything.
However, they are, by nature, an inferior art form, because they are not completely original creations.
JohnnyJune
Stand-by Joined: 3/15/05
#18re: I loathe the term and hatred toward 'JUKE BOX Musicals'
Posted: 9/21/05 at 10:56am
The only Juke Box Musical that should have ever existed was Mamma Mia. PERIOD.
And all of the others should be called PIECEs OF TRASH. Calling it a Musical is TOO nice. And giving the numerous amounts of talented people in shows like this.... The only good thing these Pieces of Trash are good for!!! Keeping talented people in a Job who really should be in something with substance.
touchmeinthemorning
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/3/04
#19re: I loathe the term and hatred toward 'JUKE BOX Musicals'
Posted: 9/21/05 at 11:01am
"However, they are, by nature, an inferior art form, because they are not completely original creations."
I'm not sure this is accurate. Consider that every new musical is written based on the talent, education, and experience of the composer and writer and actors. A "found" show like the jukebox musical is just slightly different. new arrangements must be done, lyric changes often happen, and the songs will ALWAYS mean something new. The only real difference is that the creative team has a spring board. Frankly, every show ever created has some degree or another of a spring board. One could argue the spring board is greater with a jukebox show, but...I would contend that the jukebox style limits and challenges in ways that writing new songs do not (and therefore, writing a good jukebox show is significantly more challenging...thus, more artistic if done well).
"Fundamentalism means never having to say 'I'm wrong.'"
-- unknown
#20re: I loathe the term and hatred toward 'JUKE BOX Musicals'
Posted: 9/21/05 at 11:02am
many broadway shows aren't completely original.
LITP, wicked and woman in white are based on books.
hairspray, producers, spamalot CCBB and dirty rotten scoundrels are based on movies.
BATB, lion king, tarzan, and mary poppins..we all know what they're based on.
there's also plenty or revivals, which you could argue aren't completely ORIGINAL. so i don't understand the problem.
(please correct me if any of my info is incorrect )
#21re: I loathe the term and hatred toward 'JUKE BOX Musicals'
Posted: 9/21/05 at 11:08amYou both are right, but I'm referring more to the score, which is the essential part of a musical. Many (if not most) plays as well as movies are adaptions of books or well-known stories. But there's a difference between adapting a book into a musical (i.e. "The Light in the Piazza") while trying to create a piece of art, and trying to cash in on the success of a music group by taking their songs and arbitrarily sticking them into the plot of a musical.
MackieManiac
Understudy Joined: 8/9/05
#22re: I loathe the term and hatred toward 'JUKE BOX Musicals'
Posted: 9/21/05 at 11:10am
So.. how many so called "original" musicals flop every season? When are we going to see the post "Well IN MY LIFE is closing... I hope this finally puts an end ot these new musicals!"
Updated On: 9/21/05 at 11:10 AM
#23re: I loathe the term and hatred toward 'JUKE BOX Musicals'
Posted: 9/21/05 at 11:13am
but, songs used in all shook up and lennon, were re-written so that they made sense in the context of the show, and many new orchestrations were added as well.
i agree, that there is a basis of a tune and lyrics that's already there, but so much more goes into it. i absolutely love "can't help falling in love" in ASU because of all the amazing harmonies and orchestrations.
i guess it's a huge matter of opinion. i could just as well argue that the BOOK is an essential of a musical. (i believe the musica is more important though.) i know what you're saying. believe me.
#24re: I loathe the term and hatred toward 'JUKE BOX Musicals'
Posted: 9/21/05 at 11:15amIsn't the score to IN MY LIFE original? Despite the fact that the composer is a popular songwriter, I think he wrote an original score for the musical, although I could be wrong...
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