Joker's Song from Batman: The Musical- Page 2

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 5:51pm

I like the idea of making him a rock tenor. And Batman a baritone.

NEVERLAND sounds cool. When is that suppose to happen? Or will it ever?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 5:52pm

"BAT OUT OF HELL: THE MUSICAL (to premiere in the West End) co-written with TERRY JONES of Monty Python fame."

Okay, is there anybody in any way involved with this who has the guts to say out loud: "DON'T BOTHER. IT'LL BE A HUGE FLOP!"?

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 5:55pm

See, that's the thing, it's not a conventional a-typical "Broadway show". It's an event, like "Cats" or "Starlight Express", a major MAJOR event...

Jim describes it best:

"The show is in fact, based on NEVERLAND, but a whole lot more & better. Terry Jones is coming over to meet with me July 15 or so. We've talked a lot & he really wants to do it. When we meet, I'll see if we're envisioning the same "it". But hes the great writer from Python & now works mainly as a Chaucer scholar who writes & lectures year round on Chaucer, while writing films like LABYRINTH. The show does feature motorcycles, flying and non flying, BMXs and a few skateboarders, all doing jaw dropping stunts on wonderfully "designed" curls, just like the greatest Xtreme sports. All the bikes will be choreographed. The first thing in my mind before I wrote Bat was the image of a motorcycle doing a pirouette. Now we'll see it. Its all about defying gravity, caressing danger, and burning blazes of speed. The Russian wizards are very real too, they live there and have perfected a technique of flying that makes all theatre stuff look pathetic."

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 5:59pm

A show this size, which Jim has mentioned has got backing (there are producers working on it in the West End), will not happen over-night. But it will happen

Jim has been trying to do NEVERLAND since 1969

The versions of the show that are out there expresses something very bold and frightening, The Clockwork Orange of the musical theatre, very weird stuff. And of course most of the songs have gone on to become his greatest hits

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 6:01pm

Is he talking about "NEVERLAND" like Peter Pan? Or is the motorcyle extravaganza that he's talking about going to be "BAT OUT OF HELL: The Musical"?

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 6:02pm

Both. BAT OUT OF HELL: The Musical *is* NEVERLAND

[Color and Light]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 6:04pm

The Terry Jones fan in me is wrinkling my nose. Different strokes for different folks, but BAT OUT OF HELL: The Musical doesn't appeal to me at all.

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 6:07pm

It's not aimed at that traditional Broadway audience. Look at what happened when they tried that with Tanz Der Vampire, it scarred Jim for ages.

This is going against every tradition EVER. Whether it succeeds or fails is up to the public. Personally, I'd like nothing more than to see Jim's ultimate vision out there at last

And, if not, we'll always have the rest of his work, because all of it (in his words) is somehow tied to Neverland

Updated On: 7/8/06 at 06:07 PM

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 6:13pm

They should stick with the name "NEVERLAND" it says way better than "BAT OUT OF HELL: The Musical" - I hate when they tag line things like that. "BLAH BLAH BLAH: The Musical." That's dumb. But it will def. do better in London then it would ever do in NYC.

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 6:14pm

The reason they won't use Neverland is because The Great Ormond St. Hospital wouldn't like the idea of Peter and the Lost Boys being horny teenagers

EDIT: Yeah, I know that seems like just a title-change. It is Peter Pan, in spirit, but it's also very Steinman... Completely different to the traditional story, only it remains the same essentially... that Peter falls in love with this girl called Wendy, she joins him on an adventure. His heart is broken when he comes back to her, one last time, and find she's a 60-year-old woman

Updated On: 7/8/06 at 06:14 PM

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 6:23pm

I like the idea of the story. Taking a new/contemporary spin on an old classic, but I don't like what he's doing with it. The whole motorcycle thing, I just feel like he's trying to overshadow the fact that maybe the story's not so good, etc. Id rather just see it done has a "big" musical but not OVERBLOWN.

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 6:25pm

So would I, to be honest, but... it will be interesting.

[friedrichVT]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 6:42pm

"scarred Jim for ages"...
That's the true JOKE . Jim approved everything from the casting of Michael Crawford to ALL the changes of Tanz. Regardless of what people claim he says, or may have actually said, Post-Dance of the Vampires. He realized it was disastrous and walked away,no ran. Posting an article the day of opening denying any further artistic connection and abandonnig his cast and crew from that moment on showed nothing but his cowardice and lack of respect for anyone but himself. Perhaps that's where the scars came from. The Joker song is rubbish. And I dare say if Broadway or London give him a second chance(which by his past behavior seems HIGHLY doubtful)it too will suffer the same fate. You can only cover up recycled dated rock songs w/so many dancing motorcycles.

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 6:48pm

LOL,

I find that viewpoint intriguing. And I have told the story of "Dance of the Vampires" oft' times.

Michael Crawford was an absolute monster when it came to D.O.T.V. He alienated everyone, including the creative team, (you should track down the interviews with author Kunze, they are REALLY interesting), to the point that Steinman felt rejected, watching his masterpiece torn to shreds

Tell me, if you were in the same position, when you're so obsessed with your work, would you not run? When it's something that passionate, and something you've been fighting for for thirty years, I'd go public and damn the guy to hell.

Crawford and his moronic changes, and all the hack producers, were the fault of that travesty. I say good luck to Steinman, he never deserved that stain on his career

EDIT: And I don't see why this thread has to become yet another "memory" of THAT show. That's not what I brought up at all

Updated On: 7/8/06 at 06:48 PM

[friedrichVT]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 7:01pm

The Hack producers have been VERY successful pre and post Dance of the Vampires. Perhaps everyone was srambling to put any and every artistic band-aid on the lame beast that was Tanz/Dance...I realize Michael ended up w/more artistic control than one would expect...but Jim had approval of his casting,and did so. Money and greed play alot into the scenario,so much so that it blinded many w/preposterous casting and NO true artistic vision. A couple of good tunes, RECYCLED unorganic songs and an 80's rock theme that elicited belly laughs just for even being there were part of the Tanz package before ANY changes occured. The masterpiece was ore of a MESSterpiece even before Broadway.
(I apologize for this becoming yet another thread about DOTV. I've never posted about it,just found it interesting that a composer, Prolific in recent past,can crank out such dreck these days and try to pass it off as art.I hope both Batman and the bigger,better, re-invented Neverland sweep the Oliviers and Tonys.)
Updated On: 7/8/06 at 07:01 PM

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 7:07pm

So, you think the most successful commercial musical to have come out of VIENNA (and that's the origins of civilized music, the Baroque era) is a MESSterpiece? I'm sorry, I must disagree.

Steinman did not approve of ANY of the (Broadway) changes wholeheartedly. He was manipulated and bribed by his management. Example, he wanted Chuck Wagner and Rob Evan for the role but, in the end, it was all about the mighty dollar.

And if Roman hadn't have been an escaped rapist he would have been in America directing the show and cutting out all the nonsense. Remember that Roman's work, too, is highly regarded - even won an Oscar (to which half the audience gave standing ovations and the others were seriously p!ssed).

As for the hacks, just look at the campaign. They should have closed after opening night.

I feel this was a learning experience for Steinman and one of the rare incidents of a "failure" in a career that has generated timeless hits, all of which have appealed to millions of lives worldwide (and saved them: I speak to people like that every month or so, and their stories are fascinating).

But I didn't come here to discuss Dance Of The Vampires. I came here to discuss the future, and to pass a long a recording that Jim so GENEROUSLY gave to us

Cheers,
R.L.

EDIT: No one laughed at Total Eclipse in Vienna. There, it was a powerful love song. On Broadway, it was Comedy Channel meets American Idol

Updated On: 7/8/06 at 07:07 PM

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 7:15pm

Is Michael Crawford such a big star that they are accomodating him so much?

PS, you've got Peter Pan all wrong (and so has Steinman, if that's where you get that summary). Peter don't love nobody. He's a heartless litle boy. He brings Wendy home because she misses her mom, and though he comes for her the first few summers, he forgets about her. Eventually he returns when she's grown up (hardly in her 60s), beyond make believe, and has a child of her own. So Peter takes Wendy's little girl to be his new mother.

If there's any sort of love story in it, it's from Wendy to Peter, and not a traditional love story. Ugh. That's what I don't like about Jim Steinman. The elevated cheese.

PS: Neverland sounds like an extended Universal Studios skit.

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 7:20pm

I don't think I described it very aptly, to be honest. There's been so many different spins and interpretations of Jim's script (a transcript and bootleg of the 1977 production is available). The original production didn't even have anything to DO with Barrie's story, aside from the bizarre re-use of the names Tink and Wendy (Pete's name was Baal).

Later, as time went on, and it went around film-studios, they wanted a more traditional Peter. Steinman kept changing it. Then there were legal troubles. He changed it back to this show about a pack of "lost boys" escaping the metropolis of Obsidian.

Peter never loves Wendy, you're right - there is no element of him exactly "loving" her in the Steinman script, just constant rituals (the "wolf with the red roses" speech started out in Neverland), but it's hard to describe.

Updated On: 7/8/06 at 07:20 PM

[Mr. Tuttle]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 7:26pm

Interesting... Rockfenris has all the answers toy questions that only the composer would know.

Thanks for joining us, Mr Steinman. Take these comments to heart.

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 8:03pm

I assure you I am NOT Mr. Steinman. I am a simple fan, my fansite: www.freewebs.com/lordsteinman chronicles the achievements of Jim Steinman

Don't believe me? Trace my ISP

[latheatrelover]

Posted: 7/9/06 at 3:38am

Oh, my G -- that song is unbearably bad. It makes me want to jump into an open grave and pull in the dirt behind me.

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 7/9/06 at 3:45am

YOU make me want to jump into an open grave and pull in the dirt behind me

[latheatrelover]

Posted: 7/9/06 at 4:02am

I realize that as you posted the link to the song that you like it, but you must admit I am not the only one to dislike the song. You have to be aware that there will be some who think the song is pretty bad and be able to go with that. I have never written a thng like "jump into an open grave..." before but it was what occured to me in listening to it.

I just gave it a second chance, and if you prefer, I could be nicer and say that if I was in the theatre and heard that, I would leave and ask for my money back from the boxoffice. Even though the exit line was long.

And you don't possibly think you might be a little too gungho on Steinman by saying "...and this version is reported to be the greatest show on earth, designed for a theatre especially built for it." No, sorry, I take that back. I just read some of your website's volume on "Jim". Phew, talk about excess without moderation.



Updated On: 7/9/06 at 04:02 AM

[TabooPhan1]

Posted: 7/9/06 at 12:04pm

Oh LORD... There are not words... "Where does Venezuela get all that heat?"? I'm in shock...

[TheMecca]

Posted: 7/9/06 at 12:42pm

That was just...
bizzare.

CONTROVERSIAL COMMENT OF THE DAY:
I loved it.