KING AND I Revival a possibility- Page 4

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 2/18/11 at 8:01am

Reginald, in the '77 revival, Martin Vidonic played Lun Tha and I don't think anyone blinked for that either.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 2/18/11 at 9:15am

My issue with Audra playing Mrs. Anna really doesn't have anything to with the real Mrs. Anna being a (white) historical figure - I would be pretty willing to buy into a black AMADEUS or asian EVITA, because race has nothing to do with the story of those characters in those plays.

But race is a big element of THE KING AND I. I think if you were to do some very deliberate color blind casting, in the grandest vision of the word, and cast the entire production inter-racially, regardless of whether the characters are Siamese, British, Burminese, etc., you could make a case for it.

But to cast the show traditionally,with the exception of Mrs. Anna, would I think be awkward because of the strong story plot involving slavery and the pointed discussion of the 'current' slave issue in the United States (remember KING AND I takes place pre-Civil War).

Reginald -- to address what you write about white actors playing the King and supporting asian characters in productions through the 70s, and audiences not batting an eye - we should remember that, although we don't find it politically correct now, those white actors were playing the King and others *as* asian characters. They wore makeup and wigs inspired to make them look like the asian characters as written and it was simply an accepted practice at the time.

That is not the same as color blind casting and of course audiences wouldn't buy it today and would be just as horrified to see Audra McDonald play Anna Leonowens in a blond wig with pale makeup.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 2/18/11 at 9:56am

Of course I'm aware of what acceptable performance practices were--and judging by some of the suggestions in this thread for the king, still are. I'm merely pointing out what underlies it: that for many people white is neutral (as is straight, incidentally).

BTW, have you ever seen footage of Grace Bumbry in white face as Tosca? Truly odd.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 2/18/11 at 10:52am

Yes, that is odd...Though on the flip side of that, the opera world, perhaps by necessity for the voices needed to carry the material, doesn't seem to place as much emphasis on casting actual minorities in minority roles. I think they try when possible, but even at the Met - in productions as recently as NIXON IN CHINA, most of the asian roles - principal and chorally have been taken by non-asian actors.

I think necessity is partly what dicated the use of white actors playing the King and supporting roles in early productions of THE KING AND I -- at the time, and even as recently as MISS SAIGON, producers claimed that finding suitable minority talent was extremely challanging. The historical casting of white actors in these roles probably shouldn't thus automatically be atributed to insensitivity by producers or ignorance by audiences.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 2/18/11 at 10:56am

Maybe I'm just color blind, but I think Audra could play the part just fine without white face. She would have a British accent, because Mrs. Anna is from England, and that would do. I would get that she is from England and that when she thinks of Tom she thinks about a night when the earth smelled of summer and the sky was streaked with white and the soft mist of England
was sleeping on a hill...

The issue of slavery would come through perfectly. The issue is that the king owns slaves and Mrs. Anna is against slavery. What would be the problem?

Do you think the audience would think that Mrs. Anna is from Africa or a former slave? I don't.

I'd rather see Vicki Clark, but I wouldn't have a problem with Audra.

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 2/18/11 at 11:01am

But there is an ignorance in saying that they couldn't find "suitable minority talent." What that implies to me is that it's really hard to come across a talented minority actor but that there's a surplus of talented white actors, so much that we even need to cast them in minority roles because those "minority people" tend not to be as talented, which is ultimately an ill-informed train of thought.
The other thing they'll tell you is that casting a white actor is easier because there are not that many name Asian actors...which is true, but they aren't names because they keep losing actual Asian roles to white actors who are then just able to keep building their resumes.
/End of rant

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 2/18/11 at 11:12am

Joey - you are a romantic and for much of the first act, any glorious musical theatre actress would be divine as Anna.

The issue is that as the play continues - the fact that slavery is still being practiced in America and has only recently been abolished in England is discussed and becomes a major plot point. If you could convince an audience to not think about the race of the actress playing Anna, or find it irrelevent - even during the sequences in which Mrs. Anna is educating Tuptim on Abraham Lincoln, slavery and UNCLE TOM'S CABIN then I don't see it being a problem at all.

Like i said, I don't have a problem with Audra playing Mrs. Anna, if the production was directed in a way as to make race a non-issue.


Ray -- that is true if you were to find contemporary Broadway producers who were trying to make that arguement. Frankly, I don't think any would. But in the 50s-70s, minorities(and specifically asians) had few opportunities in the arts and thus most didn't pursue an active interest in careers as performers. And so it was, at that time, when the admittedly fairly rare occassion arose in which minority actors were needed, very difficult to actually find minority actors with the skills and training to take on the roles.

Call it a blight on the historical theatrical radar. But its actually been the continued popularity of shows like THE KING AND I and MISS SAIGON and SOUTH PACIFIC that really have encouraged minority actors to pursue careers in the arts, and embark on the proper training so that in major Broadway productions today those roles can actually be played by asian actors.


Updated On: 2/18/11 at 11:12 AM

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 2/18/11 at 12:03pm

I know I'm flogging a dead horse (and I'm really not just arguing with you, Michael Bennett), but as regards the slavery issue, you say "If you could convince an audience to not think about the race of the actress playing Anna, or find it irrelevent," that it wouldn't be a problem.

Again, it seems people can do exactly that with regard to an Anglo actor playing the king. It's only the notion of a black actress as Anna that would present a problem.

Incidentally, I'm not saying I'm above all this. I'm really just exploring the issue. I don't know if I would suddenly be jerked out of the scene, thinking "But wait--she's black."

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 2/18/11 at 12:52pm

No flogging at all - I respect the lively debate Reginald.

And I do think part of the suspension of belief an audience was willing to have regarding the King in the 50s and 60s is that in most cases the white actor was 'made up' to look asian and people bought the theatrical convention of that and at the time - weren't viewing it as insensitive or offensive. In hindsight, yes, that feels like a double standard --I can't imagine those same audiences would have gone for Lena Horne as Mrs. Anna wearing light makeup -- but if she had, the audience would have been asked to believe she was playing the role as a white woman and that is a slightly different issue.

Having an actor made up to play another ethnicity is not really color blind casting in the way we currently view the term.

I'm not sure I or you would be pulled out of the scene having a black actress playing Mrs. Anna (and to that end I assume we would be asking the audience to simply not look at the color or ethnicity of the actress playing the role at all), but I do feel the only instance in which color blind casting really needs to be questioned and debated before being deemed suitable is when the story includes major plot issues involving race, and THE KING AND I definitely includes those issues.

Interestingly, the other show that people seem to love debating the suitability of non traditional casting is THE SOUND OF MUSIC -- another R&H show that skirts somewhat indirectly ethnic injustice.

Again, I think you could make a case for a production featuring a black Maria or a black Mrs. Anna, but I think you have to accept that in doing so - you are asking the audience - directly or indirectly - to see the material (and themes that do circumvent historical racial issues) in a context that differs from the authors' original intention. And to me that (not the issue of the race of the actor) is ultimately the major thing to be weighed and evaluated.










Updated On: 2/18/11 at 12:52 PM

Posted: 2/18/11 at 1:27pm

As of May of last year, Kelli O'Hara was already attached but things can change.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 2/18/11 at 1:28pm

I get everything you're saying, and I don't necessarily disagree. It's just that the more I think about it, the more I find a layer underneath.

Yes, audiences in the 50s and 60s accepted the convention that, say, Darren McGavin in makeup was an Asian. BUT I still think it was a one-way street: Put Diahann Carroll in white makeup as Mrs. Anna, and they'd simply have been flummoxed (if not outraged).

In other words, the convention that white people could play another race was accepted; I'm not convinced it worked in reverse.

And given a lot of comments made in other threads regarding race and casting, I'm not persuaded that that's gone away.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 2/18/11 at 1:43pm

There is probably something to that - I mean audiences in the 50s and 60s (and even now) have largely been white and conservative. Did that play into their suspension of belief in seeing white actors play ethnic roles? Maybe. Does that influence today even those on the message boards here that can't wrap their heads around the idea of a black Desiree Armfeldt or Mama Rose? Probably.

But things are changing - just like everything else -- each new generation is going to have less of a trouble accepting more diversity in casting.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/18/11 at 3:15pm

I saw the 1996 revival on Broadway and on tour and I thought the production (especially the original cast) was perfection. It was truly the first time I looked at a revival as something truly bright and fresh as apposed to a paint-by-numbers rehash. I was stunned at how emotionally involved I became in the story. The March of the Siamese Children reduced me to tears.

I also saw the national tour of a different production a few years ago with Sandy Duncan and Martin Vidnovic. While the direction was poor (Sandy and Marty's performances were absolutely dreadful), the design was jaw-droppingly GORGEOUS. I wouldn't mind seeing those sets again, but with a competent director at the helm.

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 2/18/11 at 3:47pm

I saw the national tour with Hayley Mills in Cleveland. Sadly I think the only thing I really remember was that she received a HUGE standing ovation when she came out for her curtain call wearing an Indians jersey and hat, as they were currently in the World Series at the time (and I think may have even played that night and won the game?)

[DCS]

Posted: 2/18/11 at 8:03pm

For all you King & I fans and sticklers for historical accuracy, I highly recommend the book Bombay Anna by Susan Morgan...it's a real eye-opener as to who the real Anna Leonowens was....she wasnt born in England and she wasn't a well bred/educated woman as she claimed to be.
Bombay Anna on Amazon.com

[canmark]

Posted: 2/19/11 at 12:03am

> Call it a blight on the historical theatrical radar. But its actually been the continued popularity of shows like THE KING AND I and MISS SAIGON and SOUTH PACIFIC that really have encouraged minority actors to pursue careers in the arts, and embark on the proper training so that in major Broadway productions today those roles can actually be played by asian actors.

I'm wondering, though, didn't shows like Flower Drum Song and Pacific Overtures have predominately Asian casts? Were they Asian-Americans, or were they cast from abroad (like Lea Salonga... who, of course, has gone the other way and played a white character, Fantine, in Les Miz).

=========

I would love to see Audra as Anna, and wouldn't have any issue with her not being a white English woman.

Certainly, I had no issue with Juanita Hall (who is African American) playing Bloody Mary, a character who was Tonkinese. (Apparently she was in Flower Drum Song, too, playing Chinese.)

=========

On a somewhat related note, of the 4 boys playing Billy in the Toronto production of Billy Elliot, only one of them is white. One is of Cuban descent and two are Asian-American. Naturally, finding 12-14 year old boys who are triple threats is not an easy thing, but it's nice to see that they are not just casting boys who look like they could be the son of a white father and mother.

http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/theatre/article/865523--meet-the-boys-who-will-be-billy-elliot

Updated On: 2/19/11 at 12:03 AM

[Caron2]

Posted: 2/21/11 at 8:05pm

As another post said, Anna Leonowens was not "an English white woman": she was quarter Indian (from a grandmother), was born and grew up in India. She actually didn't go to England until after she left Thailand, in her late 30s, and then only for a short time. She immigrated to the US, then to Canada, where she spent most of the rest of her life fighting against injustices of all kinds, particularly in regard to women. Leonowens made up a background for various reasons elaborated on in Susan Morgan's biography Bombay Anna (mentioned by someone else here as well). She even changed her birthdate from 1831 to 1834. Note that there is a new corrected edition of Morgan's biog, published in 2010 by Silkworm Books. We always think of Anna as being fair, because of the Hollywood portrayal. Actually, she was dark with olive skin. It would be great to see King Mongkut finally played by a Thai. However, I don't know if that would be possible, as he was one of their most revered kings and many Thais believe The King and I insults him. They particularly hate the implication that there were romantic feelings between the two (there weren't). The King and I has always been banned in Thailand, though a previous, non-musical film, Anna and the King of Siam (1946), had a premiere in Bangkok.

[Mildred Plotka]

Posted: 2/21/11 at 8:28pm

I say bring in Judy Kuhn and let her have another, long overdue, Broadway triumph. Sher has worked with her before, and I think she'd be devastating as Mrs. Anna.

[inlovewithjerryherman]

Posted: 2/21/11 at 8:32pm

I'm not sure who I'd like to star in this, but I do know that all I want is for it to simply happen. Unlike WOTV, Bartlett Sher's directorial touch and knack for exploring subtext and naturalism in musical theatre is PERFECT for this show.

If this happened, wouldn't he be doing double duty with "Funny Girl"?

[inlovewithjerryherman]

Posted: 2/21/11 at 8:32pm

I'm not sure who I'd like to star in this, but I do know that all I want is for it to simply happen. Unlike WOTV, Bartlett Sher's directorial touch and knack for exploring subtext and naturalism in musical theatre is PERFECT for this show.

If this happened, wouldn't he be doing double duty with "Funny Girl"?

[gabrieljwickedone]

Posted: 12/29/11 at 9:49pm

Kristin Chenoweth or Kelli O'Hara as Anna.
Lou Diamond Phillips as The King
Palo Montalban as Lun Tha
Lea Salonga as Tuptim
Loretta Ables Sayre as Lady Thiang

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/29/11 at 10:11pm

Lou Diamond Phillips as The King

Again?


Lea Salonga as Tuptim

Too old.

Loretta Ables Sayre as Lady Thiang

I can see it.

[SondheimFan5]

Posted: 12/29/11 at 10:19pm

I don't think Loretta could sing Lady Thiang. gabrieljwickedone, I think O'Hara is the only one who really works out of your suggestions.

How was Elaine Paige in London? Did anyone see it?

[emilyfaye48]

Posted: 12/29/11 at 10:24pm

Kate Baldwin, absolutely!!!!!!!

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 12/29/11 at 10:25pm

I can see many women playing Anna but I would love to see John Lone as the King.

And I agree that Anna should be played by a white woman and the king by an East Asian man. Race neutral casting is perfectly wonderful but not in a work about culture clashes.