Local 1's statement -- are they serious?- Page 6

[teka21]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 10:53pm

I can't believe that it's so difficult for working people to see that all our situations are similar, and that management only wants to divide us. I'm a teacher who supports Local 1 in the effort to negotiate a fair new contract. The gap between the very rich and the middle class is wider than ever. Where's the outrage at $25,000 desserts, and $450 tickets? Why should someone order a dessert that cost more than some folks' yearly income, or buy a ticket that is more than someone else's weekly salary? We should be standing together to get better wages and benefits for all wage earners, not to mention health insurance for everyone.

[roadguy]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 10:55pm

JasonF,

I didn't mention teachers in my post.. SEems like you need a teacher to help your reading skill...

My customer service person for the credit card i use gets paid waiting for my phone call to dispute a fraud charge.. Oh wait, customer service saves lives.. I forgot... Sorry...

The amount of work a teacher does compared to that of a stagehand can be measured in many ways..

A hardworking stagehand that just works for "A SHOW"

LMFAO

[uncageg]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 10:57pm

I think emergency room staff has other things to do in between patients coming in like paperwork, checking on other patients, etc. Cops aren't just cruising and looking for a crime, they are patrolling (for the most part!)

[Mr. Tuttle]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 11:01pm

BrianIdol is in need of a teacher's services.

But thanks the Local 1's suggestion...they've all quit.

[Tkt2Ride]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 11:02pm

Here now lets at least post the article a little more clearly, shall we?

' Producers accuse the stagehands of purposely taking longer than they have to on jobs so that they can claim they need more workers on a show. The stagehands, however, claim the producers put profit before safety, efficiency, and fairness. 'If they REQUIRE us to be there three hours out of eight hours, are we supposed to get paid for [just] three hours?' Claffey asked. 'At the firehouse down the street, what if they only got paid to put that fire out instead of the time they're waiting for the fire?'

I see this is either a misquote or he misspoke here. He is saying they are REQUIRED to be there eight hours but then only end up actually loading or unloading for three. The key word here is that they are REQUIRING them to be there. Meaning they have no other choice or they get fired. Can't go to Burger King or Juniors for Breakfast, maybe they can order in but it isn't encouraged since the Management is mad the work hasn't arrived yet, so they are grumpy.

Claffey also refuted the League's claim that the average stagehand earns more than $150,000 annually, stating that the average hovers closer to $67,000, and said that not every stagehand is employed 52 weeks out of the year at a long-running show like The Phantom of the Opera.

Again people not the norm here! Maybe average around $75,000 but this is for only a few people not the group. Some make less some make more. How big is this group? 5 to 7 people at the most? Actors are making that much if not more for leads.


What Claffey said and meant is sometimes, a truck gets stuck in traffic, ( in New York? You're kidding right? no, I'm not), you have to wait and wait for it to pull into the dock to unload. This could take a another hour and they have had to stand around already. Maybe the driver has some check off log that must be done to confirm delivery, stuff like that. The crew in the meantime has to wait around for the driver to open the back and allow them to do their job.

If you don't live in New York what do you do? Wait around to clock in even though you were scheduled and promised to be there at some awful time in the morning? No. You clock in when you are told to and you are where you are suppose to be. What else can you be doing if your job is to unload and set-up a stage with no set pieces? Sometimes, you take an early lunch. They are saying they are being forced to wait until later hours to eat Dinner because it is taking too long to unload or make a set piece fit. If it happened once in awhile, maybe but if it happens often, you start to get upset. Especially if you have to pay bills, make phone calls or run errands on your normal lunch or dinner break.

Sure, I wish public servants were paid more. I also wish they would pay more janitors to clean the schools. Though this has nothing comparable to what skills are required to be stagehand. When Teachers, Police, and Fire start lugging around $million dollar sets I bet they will get paid well too. I don't expect that Police and Fire get paid less than what the average stagehand makes. Some Teachers get paid a lot of money. Depends on what and where you teach. They start out low but if they stay the usual ten plus years, they can make good money . New Teachers, the pay, it sucks until they are vested, once they are vested, the pay gets better. Still, this is not a comparable position.

Let's get into the field and see how much they are offering an Engineer who works at Google or IBM. The avg. for a simple Engineer is right with the stagehands, in the 67,000 dollar range. Some make as much as $100,000, based on and their experience. Again, that is often working two jobs for a stagehand at once. It is high demand work and skilled Technicians are in very high demand. Some who are in Executive Management make that awesome 150,000 to $200,000 dollar range. A lot rarer on even a Broadway stage I bet. At least, compare apples to apples here please? Using these figures though, you see that stagehands are paid what one would expect someone to get paid in their given field of work for New York.

How about Actors? Writer? How many are in the $100,000 dollar range? More when you compare them job for job to Technicians and they only have to risk their lives once in awhile. How much do they pay over at PGE? $70,000 isn't too much for a Journeyman Electrician if you include overtime.

Still here we are again. The issues are trying to make that School Teacher, work also as a Vice Principal without offering her more money to do the extra work. If you fire or cutback the workload then someone has to do the work they aren't doing now. You keep thinking it is the nothing work they are talking about but it is the work that they will leave behind that is the trouble. It is being stuck with a two man job with only one guy around. Then the Manager has to call someone in, when they can find them and waiting for that person to get there to solve the problem. If the problem is that serious you don't get your show. Why is this so difficult to understand?

They surely aren't striking for the guy who moves the Piano or mops the floor. He isn't chopped liver but it is about having enough people there when trouble strikes. It's about having enough people there when the fire starts not waiting around until everything is burnt to a crisp to sweep up the ashes when it has all burned away.

One alternative is hire enough New York City Firemen to stand around every major Broadway show so that they will be able to respond immediately when a fire breaks out. Some of the need to have more Technicians is to ensure a safe environment and the ability to respond before an emergency crew can get there if something goes wrong. This isn't a Mom and Pop Kitchen but a full fledge 1400+ seat Theater full of people and a lot of flammable equipment here. People should see what is required for a Movie set to put on a dangerous stunt sometime and how much those people get paid to get a grip here.

This too has been explained as best as can be before. At least, quote the whole argument if you must use other people's words.

[roadguy]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 11:03pm

ok, so the emergency room staff is doing paperwork, the cops are patrolling not cruising(still wondering the real difference)

I'm loading in a show waiting for the carpenters to get out of the way, while I complete my channel/dimmer schedules, having other hands loom cables off in the corner and of course ragging on the carpenters for always being in the way.. :) People think we actually just sit around and do nothing for hours on end and get paid for it... some people are just ignorant...

[don logan]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 12:10am

I've only done one B'way show from the ground up, and I NEVER saw crew guys just standing around. Maybe it happens, but I didn't see it. I wonder if people who talk about featherbedding would mind if they didn't get paid at their day jobs for the times they go to the bathroom, or stop working to talk to people or surf porn, etc.

I wonder what the average producer makes, since we all seem to know what the average stagehand makes.

It's also interesting to me that this strike has brought the inner Republican out in a lot of people on this board.

[uncageg]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 12:28am

roadguy...not saying you are not working...just responding to what ER people and cops do! I am sure a lot of stagehands work their butts off. And yes, I am sure that standing around is part of the job. No doubt. I am just wondering about the people who may be taking advantage of the nice contract that the stagehands have.

Updated On: 11/13/07 at 12:28 AM

[roadguy]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 1:05am

uncageg,

there are people who take advantange of their jobs/status/etc.. in everything... look at ceo's of companies.. Enron, Martha Stewart, and on and on.... not saying taking advantage of something is good, but you're telling me now that one or two people out of 30 or 40 who take advantage of making a decent wage are costing broadway shows enough to fail.. The stagehands in NYC have a nice contract.. NICE being the key word.. why are the producers trying to take it below nice?? they should have a GREAT contract. We are talking about producers/investors who are millionares.. THey claim they are losing money and it's because the stagehands don't work enough.. Tell the producers to take a pay cut.. Tell the producers to layoff an assistant and actually do some more of their own work.. But such is life, the rich get richer and do less work on their way.. I make a very good living, but i also don't have to pay an outrageous rent in NYC.. How is that I can make the same money with a lower cost of living?? These guys bust their butts dealing with designers, producers, other management who (some not all) have no idea what it takes to setup a show. I can't tell you how many times I've had to speak with management types and tell them, it looks good on paper, but on the stage this is gonna be a nightmare, can we make some adjustments.. Now all of a sudden, the producers know exactly what happens at all times on a stage during a load in.. But if you ask them to grab a stagepin cable they have no clue where to look...

[jasonf]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 7:45am

My statement didn't include teachers in the "saving lives" aspect. If you read more closely, you would see the separation in my response. Look, we're all happy there are stagehands who are working on these shows. We all love theater and know it can't happen without them. However, the comparison to the work that er staff, firemen, police, or, yes, teachers, do is simply appalling. The work stagehands do is important in their industry, but 90 grand a year is pretty damn good compensation for it, ESPECIALLY if you compare it to those other jobs. Yes, it sucks they may have to stand around waiting for a truck to pull in, but that's the nature of the job just as taking hours upon hours to grade papers on the weekends is an aspect of mine. Do I wish I was getting paid for that? Hell yes! Do I think I ever will be? No, because, like waiting for a truck, how do you balance that out across all jobs? As an English teacher I spend WAY more time grading papers than, say, an art teacher or a gym teacher does. Should I get paid more? Maybe, but the fact is we're all equal and we get paid at the same rate -- we knew this coming in. I don't think anyone denies that stagehands should make enough at their job to put food on the table, but when you're making 90 grand a year and bitching, that's a little hard for the majority of us to swallow as a legitimate complaint.

Oh, and telling me to shut up? Mature, BrianIdol. And effective :)

[caitiesus1522]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 7:48am

The stagehands need to stop bitching and stop comparing themselves to professions like firefighter, policeman, emergency workers, and teachers. You are no where near that important and never will be

You work on shows. That is it.

I will come out and say NONE of you deserve $90,000 a year. Yes, there are electricians and carpenters and other skilled jobs...most of which can be taught at a high school vocational school and then one can enter those field...I know many who have just after that with additional schooling and have done fine. There is NO WAY you should make more than people who do useful things to society.

I say the theaters should just fire all the stagehands and find other people who can move pianos who aren't going to be little whiners about it and want to get paid when they are not doing work.

Kudos to all the actors who see how ridiculous this strike is.

You can't live on $90,000 a year you should learn how to budget your money a heck of a lot better.

ETA- And way to screw over BC/EFA. That is really classy.
Updated On: 11/13/07 at 07:48 AM

[NDR]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 8:51am

Tkt2Ride

"Fourthly, I think Tkt2Ride's suggestion that if people are unhappy they should start their own union is preposterous. That's like saying if you don't like your local cable company go start your own. The prevelance and pervasiveness of unions has significantly diminished over the past several decades, and the mitigating costs of founding a new union are far too high."

I was in fact stating that the obstacles involved with starting a union are great, and that even though people may call or try to organize, they can and are often held back from doing so. I used to be a Company Manager, and I was almost fired for suggesting to other company manger's that we organize into a union. I am well aware of the benefits that unions provide.

Your statement that "you hope never to see me as part of a Union..." seems out of place. I was just pointing out the fact that starting a NEW union would be very difficult. Sorry if you (or should I say "We" as you put it) are insulted.

[NDR]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 9:13am

leko2

"My hometown has 10 paid firemen 2 in each of the 5 departments. The rest are all volunteers who pay dues to a fire company, pay for their own certifications, and run these companies. They put their lives on the line at no cost to me, why should every NYC firefighter get paid when only 10 guys in my hometown get paid?"

The point wasn't whether firemen should be paid it was that SOME firemen get paid to do a public service unlike stagehands and that they are paid for as part of our tax dollars (in NYC anyway - as you point out). Stagehands are not paid with tax dollars
and do not perform life risking duties for the general welfare. That was the point. I was just stating that I believe it was an ill-fitting comparison, and I still hold on that one.

"Also, as a theatergoer you are paying a company to provide you with entertainment. It doesn't matter to you if there is 1 stagehand or 1000 on the show, you just want to be entertained."

That's not entirely true, but I do see your point. It doesn't and perhaps shouldn't matter to me how many people are running around backstage, but at this point, that very fact has become evident to the theatre going public because of the strike and I have to say there are valid points on both sides.

"Tkt2Ride is right, if you don't like your working conditions and know a bunch of other like minded people who don't like theirs then call the NLRB and say, "My coworkers and I want to form a union because we do not like our working conditions." At which point you will now have one voice instead of many, you will pay dues and assement on the work that the union has bargained for on your behalf and if there is a problem in the work place with your employer, the union will support you."

Been there, done that, and it didn't work. You make it sound like it is easy to form a union. There is a lot involved in it including have certain percentages of constituents participating and often times the barriers to communicating with those folks are high. Don't assume that because you are in a union that you understand the nature and complexities of founding one. Did you help found Local One? I didn't think so.

"As for cross training, many stagehands do know how to do other jobs in theater. Besides the fact that it is not the job of the electrician to run the fly rail, one of the underlying problems is that the fly rail in theaters are sometimes 70 feet off the ground."

Why is it not the job (or can't it be the job) of an electrician to run the fly rail down for repair? In today's business marketplace, employees are required to do many assorted things and to say "not my job" is unacceptable. Why should it be acceptable here? If they know how to, why would the producers want to hire a full time person to do it when they have someone there who can do it."

"This means they have to spend 10 minutes now climbing up and down a ladder or some staircase just to to get to/from the fly rail only to go back to fix the problem that they found. Once they spend the necessary time trouble shooting and fixing the problem with the light, they now have to spend another 10 minutes climbing up/down a ladder to bring the lights back to their respective storage position. During all this though work has come to a halt on the stage because there is a lighting pipe blocking access to other parts of the stage and the scenery cannot be moved to it's proper postitions so that they can open the house in time to let the audience in which causes the curtain to go up late, which now causes the crew, the musicians, and the actors to go into overtime because they show exceeded the amount of time specified in their contracts. So the production has now paid a thousand dollars worth of overtime because they didn't want to pay one guy to be on site to deal with any unforseen problems that may occur. That seems like bad business to me."

So forgive me if I don't understand. You are saying that an electrician can't bring the fly rail in but a flyman can. Olay. Then what difference does it make in terms of money and wasted time when the bar will still be accross the stage no matter who brings it down. Help me here.

"And yes, you do need someone on hand everyday to ensure the saftey of temporary rigging and scenery."

No offense, but why is this necessary?

[UnionMade]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 9:22am

caitiesus1522
And maybe we should have all our clothing made by children in third world countries. That trend is obviously working so well for the power of the AMERICAN dollar. I may be wrong because I haven't read every post in every thread, but I don't think that anyone here who claims to be a stagehand has suggested that any other profession should start taking pay cuts. In fact for the most part posts by stagehands here have been quite respectful. Which is hard because we are the ones who are more emotionally invested in this. It is very hard to take so much stereotyping, slander, and abuse and still keep a civil tongue. We are just trying to portray our side as factually as we know how, but I fear we are wasting our time. Minds have been made. For those who are asking questions respectfully, I applaud your desire to hear both sides. For those who slander people they don't know, you should be ashamed of yourselves. And to my other UNION brothers, stay strong, stay united, and don't let the uneducated get under your skin. Also, let's try to keep the other unions out of this. What Equity makes has no relevance. In fact what we make has no relevance. The real problem is that the producers were unwilling to continue negotiating in "good faith" and in a sign of extremely "bad faith" walked away from negotiations and posted work rules against us. So, for all you who have a problem with this strike please call the League at [phone] and tell them to pull these work rules so some measure of "good faith" can be returned.
For those of you who truly desire to hear our side please follow this link to the press conference the media has chosen not to show:

Local One Press Conference. YouTube
Judge for yourself;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEk7nngVr_c

[leko2]

Posted: 11/13/07 at 3:07pm

NDR, I am sorry that I misinterpreted what you had to say about the comparison of fireman and stagehands. I completely agree with you, it is a ill-fitting comparison.

You are indeed correct, I did not help found Local One 121 years ago. But you shouldn't assume that just because I am in a union I do not know how to create one. I have been involved in several different organizing campaigns, some have been successful and some of them have not. Some have just been a wake up call to companies I worked for where crews had no intent of going union but wanted to scare the company into giving them a healthier working environment. Most, if not all, organizing attempts are due to working conditions that people do not like. If you have a good working environment why do you want to change it?

As for the whole thing about the electrician running the fly rail to troubleshoot/repair a broken light. Let's forget about them being in the way of other departments. If preshow starts an hour before they let the audience in and it takes 45 minutes to do your preshow without any problems, what happens when there's a problem? You now have 15 minutes to solve an issue before you have to be ready to open the house for the audience to come inside. If the electrician has to spend 10 minutes to get to the fly rail to run the pipe in and back to the stage, he now has 5 minutes to solve the problem. Assuming it takes 5 minutes to fix, it's now time to open the house and they have to wait 10 minutes for the electrician to go back upstairs and fly the pipe out to trim and make sure that the light still works. The seating of the audience is now 10 minutes behind schedule, which can cause the show to go up late and cause everyone involved in the production to go into overtime, which can cost a producer maybe $5000. If a flyman was on the call, it could have saved 20 minutes of this process allowing for the show to not go up late and avoiding overtime. To me, it seems like paying a flyman to be in the theater for preshow and the show is better business than paying overtime to 30 people because a broken light had to be fixed and caused the show to go into overtime.

It is necessary to ensure the safety of temporary rigging and scenery because if the scenery and rigging are not safe then it is not safe to let people on stage or into the audience. What happens if the rigging on the false proscenium fails during the show and it falls into the audience? Employers are required to guarantee a safe and healthy work environment. If I have to be worried about something possibly falling on my head and possibly killing me, then something is terribly wrong.
Updated On: 11/13/07 at 03:07 PM