Madonna's Evita — Page 4

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#76

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 2:13pm

One of the things I really didn't like about the movie was Jonathan Price. He bugged me to no end. He looked and acted like he didn't want to be there singing those songs. Like he just wanted to get it over with so he could go and get something to eat.

"They're eating her and then they're going to eat me. OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!" -Troll 2

#77

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 2:14pm

um--the musical is sung through.

johnraymondbarker.com

#78

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 2:15pm

Her career speaks stunningly for her talent -- at marketing and self-promotion. That someone with as little actual musical talent as she does (she still sounds like a chipmunk to me) has managed to manipulate the press and public so effectively for so many years is extraordinary. And that she is possibly the worst actress of the last generation or two (Shanghai Surprise? Body of Evidence? Who's That Girl? The Next Best Thing?) yet he SOMEHOW still gets film roles is amazing.

I could name 500 singers with more talent, but she's more successful than all but one or two of them. I don't get it.

"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie [http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/] "The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney

#79

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 2:16pm

>> What happened to Milos Forman?

Uh.........................................................

Oops.

Mea culpa.

Mea maxima culpa.

Must be all the sugar from the damn candy. :)

"That duck was a sexual toy, and it was on display!" -- an unknown Nashville town leader

#80

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 2:19pm

If the music REALLY was that bad--she wouldn't have sold 150 million albums. She wouldn't have had around 30 number one singles. She wouldn't be in the league of The Beatles and Elvis (even besting them) when it comes to sales and those statistics.

YOU may not like her music--but that does not mean it is bad.

And her concerts KICK BUTT!

johnraymondbarker.com

Updated On: 10/29/04 at 02:19 PM

#81

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 2:21pm

'But, I think her career speaks stunningly for her talent. And, it truly is so laughable to me that I can not bother to defend her---I just don't have to!'

BITCH, GET OUT OF THE GAY GHETTO!!! YOU'S TRAPPED!!! RUUUNNN, GIRL, RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNN

"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."

#82

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 2:22pm

And we do have to give her credit for taking the usual road concert tour and making it an evening of real theatre. Unlike the bands that just stand there and sing, Madonna's shows are always serious events. Even DROWNED WORLD, which wasn't that great compared to her others, was far more visually entertaining than anything U2 or the Stones have trotted out.

"That duck was a sexual toy, and it was on display!" -- an unknown Nashville town leader

#83

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 2:23pm

(And yes, it was Milos Foreman! Remember that, Sean!!!!!)

(Bad Sean! Bad! No cast albums for you today!!!)

"That duck was a sexual toy, and it was on display!" -- an unknown Nashville town leader

#84

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 2:23pm

the gay ghetto?--actually it's often the queers who run around talking about how tired she is--that is until they play one of her songs and they all run their gay asses to the dance floor.

My opinions on Madonna have nothing to do with my being a fag.

johnraymondbarker.com

#85

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 2:24pm

Honey, Bette Midler was on the road doing the big Broadway-style concert before Madonna hit puberty.

"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie [http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/] "The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney

Updated On: 10/29/04 at 02:24 PM

#86

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 2:27pm

But Bette and Madonna aren't in the same genre--I think the point was that Madonna made pop/rock/dance artist concerts theatrical again.

johnraymondbarker.com

#87

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 2:28pm

and turned lipsynching into an artform

"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie [http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/] "The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney

#88

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 2:32pm

jrb,

can't one like Madonna's music (as I do, for the most part) and still not have liked her in Evita?

And in the end, can't one just not like Evita??

And to take it further, can't one just live in hate? I find it very productive.

"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."

#89

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 2:36pm

>> Bette Midler was on the road doing the big Broadway-style concert before Madonna hit puberty

Point taken. But you must admit, we are talking about exceptions to the accepted genre standard.

I was actually watching DIVA LAS VEGAS a couple of days ago. What a fun piece of work. And a serious kick-ass entrance.

(Bad Sean!!! No cookie!!!)

"That duck was a sexual toy, and it was on display!" -- an unknown Nashville town leader

#90

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 2:37pm

oh--I never questioned one's right to hate her in Evita and to hate Evita. I was addressing the silliness of belittling her career--it's just silly.

And, no, Madonna has sung live most of the time. She admittedly lip sync'd here and there. She never denied that or tried to pretend otherwise.

Just face it, Margo--you are lovely and right most of the time--but not all of the time. :)

johnraymondbarker.com

Updated On: 10/29/04 at 02:37 PM

#91

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 2:46pm

I don't think Madonna is completely talentless when it comes to music, but I do agree with Margo that she has an amazing ability to market herself. She could record pretty much anything and it will sell simply because it has her name on it, not because it is talented. She's been doing that for about 15 years now. I think she started off very well, but then had to figure out how to keep it going. Once she peaked, she's learned how to ride that wave ever since without falling off the board. She made some wise investments that paid off and she learned how to keep her main audience from getting bored while bringing in a new audience along the way. It has nothing to do with musicianship or singing ability. Wasn't it simply amazing how the press mysterious discovered her Kabbalah name at the same time she launched her tour? Suddenly, she had several interviews when the press really didn't seem very interested before. It was a very talented (yet unoriginal) move. Off screen, Madonna is Eva. On screen, she can barely pull off an episode of Will and Grace.

"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian

#92

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 2:51pm

jrb - using commercial success as an arbiter of talent is a slightly shaky arguement.

#93

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 2:53pm

There is nothing wrong with being brilliant at marketing one's career--and yet, it is made out to be a dirty thing with Madonna.

I disagree that her career peaked after 5 years--her music has only gotten better. Like A Prayer came in year 6. Vogue in year 7. Ray of Light in year 15--just to name a few highlights.

I don't think Madonna released her Kabbalah name for publicity. And she didn't get interviews because of it. We know how the media is--isn't it possible that Madonna isn't quite how some of you are picturing her? I don't believe she's half as media hungry as some of you think.

johnraymondbarker.com

#94

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 2:55pm

DGrant--all I'm saying is that if it were bad, it wouldn't sell that much over 20+ years. It just wouldn't. She wouldn't be on the radio constantly--even when she isn't releasing an album.

johnraymondbarker.com

#95

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 2:59pm

"isn't it possible that Madonna isn't quite how some of you are picturing her?"

it could also work in the other direction, no?

#96

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 3:01pm

jrb - I can honestly say in all my years watching Madonna - and I saw her in the Village at a bar in the late 70's - I have NEVER heard anybody question her media hunger - even she acknowledges THAT.

#97

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 3:06pm

I only question that it isn't quite as big as it is made to be. Especially nowadays that she is more private about certain aspects of her life.

The bottom line on all this is (and I wasn't going to defend her, but see how easily poked...I mean...provoked I am) that there are artists I can not STAND, but I would never question their talent or success. Like and dislike do not equal good and bad.

And, I have to ask--Margo, Al Dente, and others who despise her--do you even like pop/dance music? Because if you don't, then this discussion is moot to me.

johnraymondbarker.com

#98

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 3:20pm

No one questions Madonna's success, but what her success was attributed to. And I agree with you about Like a Prayer and Vogue as artistic peaks for her, but not Ray of Light. By that time, she was already banking on her name and the album was just her mainstreaming a sound in the US that had already been popular in Germany (and most of Western Europe) for years. I don't hate Madonna, but I just don't see what all the worship is about other than celebrity stardom.

And yes, there were a couple of Kabbalah interviews.

"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian

Updated On: 10/29/04 at 03:20 PM

#99

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 3:22pm

Funny how Ray of Light won so many awards. Guess it wasn't any good.

johnraymondbarker.com

#100

re: Madonna's Evita

Posted: 10/29/04 at 3:23pm

I admire her guts at self-promotion; I think we have to give her that. Her talent may be so-so (with a few blazingly exceptional moments, like DICK TRACY), but her ability to capture things visually and then capitalize on them has rarely been equalled. Face it: in the beginning, she was like most of us, a starving artist who wanted to succeed no matter what. And she did, in spades.

"That duck was a sexual toy, and it was on display!" -- an unknown Nashville town leader

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