Mentally Impaired Audience Members- Page 9

[amalou]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 6:07pm

I agree completely with Matt. You can't blame a person with disabilities for what they can't help. They have just as much right to enjoy a show as any of us have...and we have the same right to enjoy a show as well. It is a very touchy situation though.

But I have to ask something and I hope no one takes offense...what about the person taking them? The person who takes responsibility for someone with disabilities. If they know their loved one is often prone to making loud noises, is a Broadway show really the best place to take them?

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 6:09pm

You can get kicked out of a restaurant if you have Tourettes and are disruptive. Or so I learned in one of my classes, anyway.

[lakezurich]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 6:32pm

I'm back again! Pennywise I think you are offended because you cannot distinguish that there is a difference between laughing at their actions and laughing AT THEM.

[LePetiteFromage]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 6:37pm

Updated On: 5/8/09 at 06:37 PM

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 7:30pm

Thank you, Fromage. That's very kind of you to say.

[JenM9]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 8:00pm

The last show I went to was the tour production of Rent; sitting behind me was a teenage girl with Down Syndrome, but she didn't seem severely affected. Before the show started it was clear she was really very excited to be there. She started talking about how much she loved the Rent movie, and how she dreamed of being on Broadway. When the show started she starting trying to sing along (wrong lyrics, sometimes a different song not even from Rent . . .) loudly and woo-ing and clapping at random moments (like Angel was dying). I think someone else must have said something to her mother at intermission because she was better behaved during act two. Though I didn't say anything because I didn't want to spoil her enjoyment of the show, I really did have to bite my tongue. Some people may find this selfish, but what about my enjoyment? I had never see Rent either and paid top dollar for my seats and my experience was negatively altered. I understand she was excited, but so was I.

Now, I don't live in New York, it takes me quite a bit of planning and money for me to get to see a show on Broadway. Sometimes I'm only able to stay in the city for that one day. If I had been in a Broadway theater and this happened there, it would have upset me so much more than it did and I probably would have had to say something. Some people don't have the option of coming back to a later showing that management may offer.

[lakezurich]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 8:14pm

that would have had me laughing. I love the ways in which they express their joy. Yes, at times it is inappropriate, but that is why I find it humorous.

[george95]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 8:27pm

Pennywise, I'm not sure if you were referring to me when you complained about people on this thread being insensitive to those they know with disabilities, but I said an awful lot about my Down's cousin, so I'm gonna guess that something I said about him probably offended you.

Here's where I'm coming from. Growing up with my cousin being so profoundly retarded, it affected every single day of my life. He lived a block away from me, his siblings and I all went to the same school, a block from our house, and we spent our entire childhood together.

As we got older, I had to deal with things like him exposing himself (at the age of 22) to my friends at my annual Halloween parties. Once, he even pull his pants down and urinated on a couch that people were sitting on. Sometimes, when I introduce him, he spits in the person's face. He has thrown my grandmother down the stairs putting her in the hospital. Every single time I have been with him at a public swimming pool, he has pooped in the pool and removed his trunks. He frequently passes gas in church. He hit my niece at her 8th birthday party so hard that she went to the hospital with a concussion. At his brother's wedding last May, he screamed curse words through the vows. At the beginning of the ceremony, when the priest reminded everyone to respect the environment of the church, my cousin shouted "f**k you a**hole" He had a terrible cold, and all throughout the reception, thick green goo flowed out of his nose, and he would wipe it on strangers.
So.
These are just some of the things he has done.
He has also brought me untold happiness and treasured memories, and I love him dearly. I love seeing him every time I go back to Chicago to visit. And even with all the things he did at my parties to my friends, he still gets invited, and my friends are still nice to him (yes eve after he pissed on them)

However, I dont know how else to deal with the things he does other than LAUGH. That's my coping mechanism. And just like I have been tolerant of you opinions and experiences without berating you or making judgments, I'd appreciate if you'd extend the same courtesy. Just because we disagree, even if its personal, does not mean we need to judge.

Updated On: 2/7/08 at 08:27 PM

[lakezurich]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 8:36pm

I would have been rolling in the isles at the wedding. That sounds like so much fun. Your cousin reminds me so much of one of our clients. At some of the most inopportune moments he will yell out "I'm a dirty old man" and there is nothing I can do but laugh.

[tgn915]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 8:38pm

"I don't even understand the point of this thread. There are loud, obnoxious, drunk, smelly, food-chomping audience members ALL THE TIME and nothing is done about them! Why pick on developmentally challenged people? I don't get it. "

MP, I clearly explained in not only my first post but in another post after that, that the purpose of this thread was not in any way to "pick on developmentally challenged people" the POINT of the thread was that I was bothered by something. By the though of a mentally impaired man being hurt emotionally or discriminated against. The point of the thread, Miss Pennywise, was the complete opposite of picking on those with disabilities. Yes, some people, you included, got into heated discussions and kind of warped the original concept, and there is nothing wrong with that. I wanted this thread to be about people's opinions on how those with disabilities should be treated in a theatre, and all those opinions should be heard and respected. You may not agree, and I pretty much always agree with you MP, but you have to take them in stride because not everyone will agree with you.

(I'm not trying to act rude in any way and if I do, I'm sorry. I do have the utmost respect for you and all you've done, Miss Pennywise. You seem like an astounding person. And so do many of you others who are here talking about your experiences helping out with mentally impaired persons.)

[lakezurich]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 8:40pm

I do love that this topic is being discussed though. And this thread has gotten around 5000 views.

Updated On: 2/7/08 at 08:40 PM

[tgn915]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 8:44pm

Yeah, I think it's great that people can focus on serious issues on here, as well.
Everyone's message should be heard. And if some people don't have the ability to speak for themselves, we should get someone here to do it for them.

That's why I think it's great that people like you, lake, and Miss Pennywise are putting your two cents in. Really giving people who are reading this a perspective on what goes on.

[lakezurich]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 8:46pm

Any time tgn

[candydog2]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 9:06pm

I too understand that people with disbilities cannot always be held responsible for their actions, but I do agree with the opinions of a few others on this thread that it is the responsibility of the caretaker to decide whether or not the person can sit through a performance. If they are making noise, it may be unfair to ask them to leave, but I also think it unfair that their accompanying caretaker should expect the other 1000 people in the theatre to deal with such distractions during the performance. Especially if the disabled person is cursing or being verbally or even physically abusive.

If they started hitting or abusing other people should they be asked to leave? They can't control their actions but should I as an audience member tolerate being abused just because my abuser has a disability? I may sound selfish, but the rights of every other person in the theatre should not be compromised.

If someone is too severely disabled to sit through a show, perhaps there are other ways for them to experience live theatre. For example, I have heard of many community and amateur theatre groups, and even smaller professional ones holding special performances for the disabled.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 9:52pm

".....I love the ways in which they express their joy."

wow, that ranks right up there with "Some of my bests friends are _____(fill in the blank" (gay black, Jewish)

I am really ticked off by the opinions expressed here by most of you....shame on you. As is previously stated, NOTHING is done to your avaerage Joe who comes to the theater and talks, smells, farts, etc......yet you want something done with the disabled?

Shame.

"I too understand that people with disbilities cannot always be held responsible for their actions"

big DUH there....sheesh, what IS wrong with you people.

Jane, Pennywise, and a few others....you are the ones I want to see shows with, not this elitist, so-called "normal" unfeeling snobs

[postergirl]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 9:56pm

I am really ticked off by the opinions expressed here by most of you....shame on you. As is previously stated, NOTHING is done to your avaerage Joe who comes to the theater and talks, smells, farts, etc......yet you want something done with the disabled?


Did you really read this thread?

[lakezurich]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 9:56pm

did you care at all to read the whole thread? I work with the Developmentally disabled for a living, and I was simply stating that I love how they express their joy. I really would like to know how that statement makes me an "elitist, so-called "normal" unfeeling snobs"

[george95]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 9:56pm

wow I really thought we brought the conversation back to a civilized tone, but here comes elphaba judging us, insulting us, and most regrettably, not understanding what's being repeated over and over and over again.

I'm really starting to think that intelligent debate just isn't possible on a BWW message board without someone resorting to name-calling---- " elitist, so-called "normal" unfeeling snobs "
I fail to see how this advances the conversation at all.
What a shame we can't respect each other's opinions more without attacking.

[lakezurich]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 9:58pm

seriously george! I am starting to get really pissed! Go back from whence you came elphaba!

[lakezurich]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 10:00pm

I mean how was saying "I love how they express their joy" in any way, shape, or form insensitive?

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 10:02pm

TGN, thank you for your very kind words. I have a great deal of respect for you, too. You are a very articulate, intelligent and thoughtful person. Please understand that what I am about to say is not meant as an insult. Au contraire!

I was impressed when you admitted how old you were and a little embarrassed with myself because I often forget how young some of the people on this board are. ("Young" is NOT an "insult"...just a fact.) I truly believe that some of what is happening in this thread has to do with the nuances and complexities of communication. You are only a few years older than my daughter, so I understand that there is a natural "gap" in our communication. Again, not meant as an "insult," just stating a fact.

Last night, I acknowledged and thanked you for clarifying what you meant in your original post, and I meant that. It may be useful for you to also to try to understand that I have several decades' more life experience and have dealt with EXTREME discrimination, misdiagnoses, inappropriate testing, maltreatment, and wrongful classification directed at my child. We all come to this board with different experiences, perspectives and concerns.

I did not know by your original post that you were 16. Now that I DO, I understand that you made your first statement innocently. You were unaware that you might be making references which have different meaning to someone like me who has been dealing with these issues at the level I have for the past 12 years. Our life experience is vastly different. It's not that one is "better" or "worse." This is not a judgment, just an observation.

I have tried to address some statements that were made in this thread, but it is quite clear that my points have often been missed. For example, I pointed out that "Mental Retardation" and "Down Syndrome" are not the same thing. These are two conditions that can be related or unrelated. Not an opinion, a fact. What did I get? An argument. (It's pretty simple to look these up on the Interent and see what I'm talking about!)

Also, statements were made about people with disabilities that, as postergirl pointed out, were made as "generalities," but the truth is that when dealing with disabilities, we cannot categorically say, "Every disabled person does X" because there are many classifications of disability, many combinations of disabilities and many variables such as education, socio-economics, living conditions, upbringing, conditioning, and so forth.

Just as there are no two snowflakes exactly the same, there are no two people exactly the same. And when it comes to people with disabilities, each and every one must be evaluated independently and uniquely because no two are exactly the same.

Tgn, you are wise beyond your years, and I mean that as a most sincere compliment. Your humility and compassion are refreshing. Once again, I thank you.

[george95]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 10:08pm

Pennywise.......I know you say that its a fact that mental retardation and Down's "are two conditions that can be related or unrelated." Someone who is mentally retarded may or may not have Down's. But someone who has Down's is automatically mentally retarded. Do you agree with that?

[tgn915]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 10:19pm

Miss Pennywise, that was beautiful and I thank you so much for lifting me up today.

Thank you so much for your compliments, they truly mean a lot to me. Believe me, I know that you have much more experience under your belt than I and that is why I continued to read this thread and your comments. I live every day to learn. Nothing craves my hunger more than learning something new about something important, and you've really helped me grow in that way!

I missed your post for the thanks for clarifying, and therefore I couldn't post my second apology for my ignorance in so quickly grouping the two together. Since I grew up with that one girl, I just assumed that other cases were similar. Thank you for opening my eyes to the difference!

I completely agree with your simile to the snowflake. Not only are people with disabilities different, but people in general. Not one person is the same in this world and that's what makes everyone so beautiful. The disabled are no exception to this rule. They are BEAUTIFUL just like any other completely functional human being. They are human beings and should not be generalized into a different group.

Again, thank you for opening my eyes to what I've been blinded to. Ignorance is bliss, but I'd rather be tortured and knowledgeable.

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 10:20pm

George, you can do the research yourself. You're a teacher.

What I said last night was "people with Down Syndrome usually have mild to moderate Mental Retardation." This is true.

I also said, "Down Syndrome is NOT a form of Mental Retardation. Down Syndrome can be a cause of Mental Retardation." This is also true.

You said, "Down Syndrome is a form of mental retardation." This is not true.

It's not a matter of "agreeing" or "disagreeing." Look it up.

[george95]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 10:22pm

"They are human beings and should not be generalized into a different group."

I'll buy a Coke for the first person who can point out a post on this thread that even remotely suggested that mentally impaired are not human beings, or should ALL be treated EXACTLY the same.
Come on, I got my money read for the Coke! lets go!