Mentally Impaired Audience Members- Page 11

[Ivan2]

Posted: 2/8/08 at 5:09pm

Unfortunately Mattbrain is right. When a child who is not impaired is loud and distruptive, they are asked to quiet down or leave. As sad as it is, it must be the same way with someone who is mentally impaired. A disruption is a distruption, and as much as it breaks our hearts, it has to happen sometimes.

In a way, I wish that the person who purchased the tickets would have thought otherwise, then it saves a lot of people the heartbreak, you know?

[Jonny boy]

Posted: 2/8/08 at 5:22pm

I don't agree.... I think that we should be more forgiving and considerate of people with mental disabilities. If I was in a show and I had a Down Syndrome person next to me, I would be happy that he(or she) has the opportunity to enjoy a live show. Thier reaction would actually add to the show for me. The only time I would take the other side is if the person was not enjoying the show or paying attention. If they were not enjoying/paying attention to the show then I dont see a point in them being in the theatre.

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 2/8/08 at 5:40pm

Jonny, think about what you're saying. Would you still be happy if this person was doing something that distracted you and your fellow audience members?

[MaronaDavies]

Posted: 2/8/08 at 5:42pm

I can see both sides of it. On the one hand, noise of any kind is disruptive during a show, no matter where it is coming from. On the other hand, someone who has a disability or illness isn't making the noise to misbehave or be rude; they're not exactly in the same category as a bratty child or someone on their cell phone. And a lot of the time they're very aware that they're making the noise, they're aware that the noise is bothering others, and it's out of their control.

I had a friend in art class with Down Syndrome when I was a kid. People ridiculed her all the time, didn't want to sit next to her, etc. She knew it. It upset her. And it upset me to see how people treated her.

I went to a show once where I was sitting on the side of the orchestra and I was near a very ill man in a huge wheelchair. He had some sort of apparatus--oxygen or a respirator perhaps--that was making a very quiet clicking, whooshing noise through the entire show. I wasn't annoyed. I was actually happy the theatre was able to accommodate the man and his equipment so he could see a show. I'm guessing there were a lot of places he couldn't go, and he was alive and alert and perhaps really in need of a day out.

On the other hand, would I want to sit near someone talking or reacting through the show? No.

IMHO theatre staff can deal with these situations in ways that are both compassionate and respectful toward the disabled and respectful of the audience members around them. Maybe the answer would be to sit the person in a section of the theatre where the noise will be less audible or less able to carry to other audience members, or in a section where the caregivers can take them outside if need be.
Updated On: 2/8/08 at 05:42 PM

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 2/8/08 at 5:48pm

Yes, that does sound like a good compromise.

[millie_dillmount]

Posted: 2/8/08 at 5:50pm

This is a sticky subject.

When I went to Xanadu, I sat onstage. There was a couple with 2 kids, and I think one of the kids was autistic or was somehow mentally impaired. He kept making noises and fidgeting. At one point he even had a stack of papers and was ruffling them around. This was ONSTAGE. I felt bad for the kid, but was appalled that the parents would put him in that situation, especially after they tell you that you cannot have anything out when you are sitting onstage. The usher onstage gave the family a glare and mouthed at him to put away the papers.

The reason why it is a sticky subject is because the theater has no right to not sell the family an onstage ticket if their child has a mental problem; however my question is why did the family get onstage seats? Why not another section of the theater where it wouldn't have been as obvious?

[lakezurich]

Posted: 2/8/08 at 5:56pm

hey all! I'm back from work. Seems like not too much has been added since last night.

[lakezurich]

Posted: 2/8/08 at 6:01pm

I'm still curious as to how my "I love the way they express their joy" was so offensive. If someone can explain I would greatly appreciate, since Elphaba has not responded.

[george95]

Posted: 2/8/08 at 7:07pm

Nothing new is really being said anymore. It seems like we've split into two camps:

1.Disruptions in a show are never acceptable.

2.Disruptions in a show are acceptable if they are from an impaired person who is just trying to enjoy the show/doesnt realize what they're doing.

I still say that all we have to do is be REASONABLE. If they impaired person can sit there and be reasonably quiet (this allows for hoots and hollers at opportune time, etc) If they impaired person makes noises that are above and beyond the limits of a REASONABLE person, thent they gotta go.

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 2/8/08 at 9:04pm

"I went to a show once where I was sitting on the side of the orchestra and I was near a very ill man in a huge wheelchair. He had some sort of apparatus--oxygen or a respirator perhaps--that was making a very quiet clicking, whooshing noise through the entire show. I wasn't annoyed. I was actually happy the theatre was able to accommodate the man and his equipment so he could see a show. I'm guessing there were a lot of places he couldn't go, and he was alive and alert and perhaps really in need of a day out."

I once encountered someone who reacted to that situation in the exact opposite way, MaronaDavies. I was at a CSO performance last year and during intermission a woman stormed up to the ticket counter in an apoplectic rage because there was a woman seated near her on a respirator. It was all "I did not pay to have to endure this rudeness!!" this and "This is RUINING my experience!!" that. Because, you know, how dare that woman ruin your experience by living.

[FlyingMonkey1223]

Posted: 2/8/08 at 9:26pm

When I saw Wicked there was a handicapped older man who was being very loud. He was talking during the whole thing, kicking the empty seat in front of him loudly, singing along with the show loudly. I asked his wife to make him stop during intermission and she acted offended. The theatre staff wouldn't do anything either. I think the blame goes onto the person who brings them there. I am all for bringing handicapped people to a show. I love Broadway and hope they would too. But if their behavior gets to the point that it is distracting from the show they should be asked to leave or moved.

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 2/8/08 at 10:37pm

I agree. They should at least be moved. But they shouldn't be treated like crap.

[dancingthrulife04]

Posted: 2/8/08 at 10:41pm

IMHO theatre staff can deal with these situations in ways that are both compassionate and respectful toward the disabled and respectful of the audience members around them. Maybe the answer would be to sit the person in a section of the theatre where the noise will be less audible or less able to carry to other audience members, or in a section where the caregivers can take them outside if need be.

That sounds fair, MaronaDavies.

[Ivan2]

Posted: 2/8/08 at 11:12pm

I totally understand with being reasonable, because a lot of the times there will be noises near the beginning and then it will stop for a while, with only minor disruptions later on. As an actor myself I know I can tune out minor disruptions, but if it's anything major it's when it becomes distracting.

The thing is, a respirator and somebody making noises aren't the same thing. A respirator is a small click and a whoosh every 5 seconds, almost a beat, but one making a noise, mentally stable or handicap, is sporadic and disrupting.

I don't want to sound like I don't sympathize for those who have mental disabilities, likewise I'm among one of the only kids at my school there to spend time and speak to those with disabilities, but I just think that whoever is bringing these patrons with disabilities to the shows need to understand that if their friend can't sit through the show and be fairly quiet, they should probably find another show or maybe attend an off-Broadway show.

But then I think of it from their point of view, as someone who can't control what they do, and yet really enjoys shows, I would feel awful still to be making noises unintentionally in a show. I guess it would be more fair to go with less popular performance (weekdays rather than weekends, matinees rather than evenings, etc.) not only for the sake of the audience but to save some of the guilt from the patron and their family.



But us arguing about it really won't change anything. There is always going to be those shows where someone comes who is less fortunate, and we can learn to deal with it or we can ask for a refund and attend another date.

[lakezurich]

Posted: 2/8/08 at 11:39pm

I don't understand how attending an Off-Broadway would make any difference. You are basically saying "we don't want you being disruptive at a Broadway show, but it's okay to do that at an Off Broadway show."

[Ivan2]

Posted: 2/9/08 at 12:29am

I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure what I was getting at there.

[Craww]

Posted: 2/9/08 at 12:36am

I get it. It's like the idea we had when we took my nephew to see his first movie in the dollar theater instead of the first run theater. The amount of money spent does contribute to the disappointment when an evening is ruined.

Don't get me wrong, that's not what the issue boils down to for me. But it's not totally invalid.

[italianpride888]

Posted: 2/9/08 at 5:18pm

This was probably said, but I am making my opinion known... The theater has no right to discriminate on who can and cannot buy tickets. But on the same note, its up to the parents discrestion on whether they feel their child can sit through a performance.


I also saw somewhere once (not my opinion), "If the mentally handicapped can be executed in Texas, than they should be able to go to a Broadway show." (a little to extreme for me)

[sesot]

Posted: 2/9/08 at 6:59pm

i work as a therapist for a Children's hospital. There are a few therapists, including myself at the Hospital that lead adapted dance groups. I contacted the Theatre of the Stars when High school Musical was opening in Atlanta. They were very generous and donated several tickets for several of the patients in our therapeutic dance program. Each patient that attended brought their mother and the therapists also got to see the show on opening night. The therapists know the kids well and all of them were very familiar with the movie and music. However live theatre is a completely different experience. For the most part all of the kids loved it and were very well behaved. Two of the girls with a diagnosis of Autism had a more challenging time. Their mothers picked up on the signs of distress and took the girls out in the lobby to help calm. One of them was able to return, the other one left early. As it has been mentioned before you can't always predict how someone will respond in a new situation. I do believe it is the caregiver's responsibility to help the person they brought to the show feel more comfortable and if overly excited help them calm down. I don't think they should just leave the show. I think they should try a few things, including stepping out to the lobby if need first and try to regroup. I also agree with the suggestion of talking to the theatre staff to see if there is an area in the theatre that may be a little less distracting. Unfortunately if a truly disruptive behavior continues then I do think the caregiver should offer to leave. I also think that it would be nice of the theatre to offer them tickets to a different night so they can maybe see the show another night with someone else or possibly better prepare the person with the disability. There is no easy solution to this. I think you have to look at it case by case. In an ideal world theatres would design a special seating area that could be more accomodating to prevent some of the things that may cause stress to a person with a disability (ex- seating area that is more open,no seats on top of each other). I have some other ideas too, but they will never happen.

[MagicalMusical]

Posted: 2/11/08 at 3:08pm

Many are saying great things, but I think almost all of you are forgetting something, or not paying attention to something:

A "normal" person who lets their cell phone ring, talks, or does something else disruptive knows what they are doing and can amend it.

A mentally impaired person may not know what they are doing or not be able to stop it.

They are different, so shouldn't they be treated differently, too? Removing someone who won't stop is one thing, removing someone who can't stop or doesn't even know they're doing something that needs to be stopped is another.

Yes, I'm talking about being nicer to mentally impaired people, treating them better, letting them get away with more. And I think because they're different from the people we wouldn't let get away with it, we can treat them in that way. They just are different. Why are you applying the same rules to someone who is not the same?

What about how mentally impaired people are treated differently in the legal system?

Some of you mentioned people who seemed to have something wrong with them and were quiet later. Well, by all means if someone can be quieted then they can change how they behave and can be removed if they choose not to change it. But if some mentally impaired person loves theater and badly wants to see a Broadway show, and they are sometimes fine and sometimes not, so they get taken to the theater, why not give them a break?

I repeat: Why are we using the same rules on people who are not the same?

And this is different from treating people differently because of skin, background, etc., because there is something medically wrong with mentally impaired people.

This is also different from treating people differently in a bad way. Treating someone better than everyone else is different from treating someone worse than everyone else. Or rather, treating someone better than the majority is different from treating someone worse than the majority.

What's "normal" is the just the majority.

Yea, yea, equality for everybody, but everyone should have equal opportunities, equal chances, equal happiness. I don't know about equal pain, because the pain will be different for the mentally impaired person.

It's true, I don't know how every mentally impaired person out there would feel, but the pain of someone deliberately doing something that disrupts an audience and knowing they shouldn't do it and have to be removed because they are doing it will be a different pain (any pain at all?) that is unequal to the pain of someone who doesn't realize what they are doing or that they are disrupting and doesn't know why they have to leave a show they were enjoying.
Updated On: 2/12/08 at 03:08 PM

[george95]

Posted: 2/11/08 at 4:20pm

Magicalmusical, your argument SOUNDS great, but I see only one hole in your case: "but everyone should have equal opportunities, equal chances, equal happiness."

The catch with all these equal opportunities and equal chances is that sometimes one person's rights interferes with another. And that's why one person's rights must end where another person's right begins.

This is why you can't use cellphones in the theater: It may be enjoyable to you to use your phone, but it interferes with my enjoyment. It may make a particular impaired person (not ALL of them so chill out people) enjoy the show more if they are disruptive. So I'm supposed to forfeit my rights to enjoy the show because of that? I dont think so.

We should be accommodating of impaired. Maybe ignoring a squeal or two. But, disruptive behavior is not acceptable. For anybody. We are, as you said, all equal.

[Jane2]

Posted: 2/11/08 at 4:31pm

" We are, as you said, all equal."

Healthwise, we are not. It's all about your enjoyment and your not wanting it to suffer a tad. If your enjoyment is being infringed upon so much, go to the theater staff and make an arrangement to suit your enjoyment to the fullest.

[marilynrita]

Posted: 2/11/08 at 6:27pm

Agreeing with Jane2.

That being said if it is disrupting a large number of people (who are all complaining and asking to be moved) or the performance (I'm sure a caregiver would realize that if they are close to the stage, at a play not a musical, etc)then they should kindly be asked to move, offered tickets for another night, etc.

I also think no one is giving enough credit to the caregiver. I'm sure if there was some constant disruption or something out of the norm happening with that person's reactions,they would realize it and take care of the situation appropriately. I really don't know anything about caregivers or anything, but I would assume it is their resposibility in taking someone on a trip.

[Jane2]

Posted: 2/11/08 at 7:31pm

I guess each incident must be taken as it occurs and treated the best way that it can be. As I said, there's no pat solution to the problem.

[missyrose87]

Posted: 2/12/08 at 2:52am

i didnt feel like reading 11 pages, so i dont know if this has already been mentioned or not. but maybe they could have a downs syndrome day and let them all come at once, so the only people they are disrupting is each other.