Mentally Impaired Audience Members- Page 8

[jordangirl]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 7:05am

I definitely agree in terms of the fact that there WILL be distractions. It's called LIVE theatre for a reason. Not only can anything happen on stage, anything can happen in the theatre period. Some can be helped, some can't. I've had people around me eating (picking peanuts out of a cellophane bag one at a time ~ a cellophane bag bought AT the theatre I might add, Subway sandwiches and chips, and even what sounded like an entire picnic basket complete with silverware and plates), cell phones go off (thankfully in both cases the people reacted immediately and appeared mortified rather than the ones I've heard of who sit there and pretend like it's not theirs), hearing aids whistle because of something with the batteries, and even the static of those listening devices ~ static so loud I wondered how the person could hear anything at all. There have also been people around me who chatter about various things. Am I thrilled? No. Because they CAN help those things.

BUT...

Unless I have the money to buy out the theatre just for myself, which I don't, there will be people in the theatre with me. And people will inevitably make noise. Maybe I'm weird, but unless it's right in my ear, I don't have a problem tuning things out. If I did, I'd think going to the theatre in general would be tough because there's so much going on all over, how would you know where to look?

Back to the original point in the thread, it is a tough situation. You'd hope that the person accompanying the individual would have a contingency plan in place as well as the theatre personnel. But to deny an entire group of people the chance to see a show...that's just wrong. (And incidentally, I know service dogs were mentioned. Those by law must be allowed to accompany their person.)

[Unknown User]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 7:27am

the ignorance in this thread is appalling.

what have you *learned* from theater that you can be so coldhearted to your fellow human beings?

[jordangirl]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 8:02am

I'm probably the most bend over backwards to accommodate people person there is. Unless someone is screaming in my ear or talking after repeatedly being asked to stop, I'm likely not to say anything. Flexibility is key.

[george95]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 8:42am

KJisgroovy, its too bad that your experience at Color Purple was ruined by a fellow audience member. Doesnt matter if that person was handicapped or not, he does not have the right to ruin your experience.
I blame whoever is his caregiver for bringing him to the show. It is very possible to predict how a handicapped person would act. If you are their caregiver or relative, in most cases you'd have a pretty good idea of how they'd react in many situations. For example, my cousin with Down's? As I said before, I can guarantee that if he went to a b-way show, he'd talk nonsensically through the whole thing, spit, kick, yell, fart, curse, move around, and talk to the actors on stage. And we're supposed to say "awww but he has a right to go to b-way!" No he does not. If he, or ANYBODY ELSE MENTALLY IMPAIRED OR NOT can't sit through a show and behave in a reasonable way (note i'm not saying they have to be perfect angels) then they shouldn't be brought to the theater.
KJisgroovy mentioned that the rest of the mentally impaired group was fine. So before people on this board start getting preachy again about how we are "ignorant" toward impaired people, please note that.
This is not really a question of should mentally impaired people be allowed to see shows. Of course they should.
But, they dont get special rules or treated differently. If they disrupt the show in an UNREASONABLE manner, then they should either leave or not have come in the first place.
I find it impossible to believe that a relative or a caregiver of an impaired person would say "Oh I have no idea how my impaired son may react to a b-way show" How does he act at a movie? in church?

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 10:26am

Not everyone goes to "church." The way a child with developmental disabilities acts at a movie may not be the same as at a live performance. There are stimulus issues and other factors that sometimes only present themselves in certain settings.

My daughter's friend has Down Syndrome, Mental Retardation and Cerebral Palsy. I went with her to a "live" event and everything was swell. Then the following year we attended the SAME event, and she freaked out. Experience suggested that she would be fine; after all, it was the exact event she had done so well at before. But until she was in the setting in real time, no one knew how she would react. (Her parents chose to take her home once it was apparent the situation was not going to improve.)

So it is not necessarily "possible to predict how a handicapped person would act."

[dancingthrulife04]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 10:28am

Some of the comments in this thread are astounding to me.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 11:30am

i thought the whole point of theater was learning empathy.

[george95]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 11:31am

Pennywise, the church was just an example. And it was not my only example.

Although you happen to know one Down's person who had two distinctly different reactions to the same event, I believe that that situation is an anomaly. I think GENERALLY, it is reasonable to say that a caregiver or relative would know how the impaired person WOULD PROBABLY act.

Dancingthrulife, which comments are astounding to you and why? Just curious.

[jordangirl]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 11:41am

George ~ In an ideal world, yes. Behaviors would stay consistent. But there are so many factors at play. I teach 1st and 3rd graders with varying degrees of mental retardation. While I generally can predict how students will react (I have one we cannot compliment or he screams, yells and tries to hit us), even my most predictable have days where nothing they usually do happens. My one Down's student usually LOVES singing, loves the finger plays and other multi-sensory things. He has never cursed at me before. But today, for whatever reason, procedures were followed exactly as they always are, and he began cursing me multiple times. Could I have predicted that based on past behavior? No. A phone call to mom revealed that he didn't sleep a lot last night because of noise in their neighborhood. I had no way of knowing that.

Of course, it works both ways. Your own behavior can throw them ~ something we often have to use at school is doing the unexpected or the opposite of that the students expect our reaction to be. For example: yesterday, when one of my students was being belligerent about getting ready to go to another class, he decided to call me a freak. Rather than getting upset, I randomly threw up my hands and belted out "Come look at the freaks!" He stopped, looked at me like I was insane, and got on line. Not the reaction he was expecting, and it worked. Cracked my paraprofessional up as well.

Again, are there typical behaviors you can most likely expect? Yes, of course. But there are always other factors going on that contribute to stimulation and behaviors. (And as for church vs. theatre ~ that's kind of a stretch because it's likely if they've been going to that church for a while, they know people there and the people there know the individual and family and work with them. So it's not necessarily an easy comparison ~ something they do regularly where they know people and are known and a new event in a new place with all kinds of new things going on.)

[CouldaWouldaShoulda]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 12:36pm

I am really shocked about some of the comments on this thread. Does everybody just care about themselves and their experience?

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 12:54pm

The people who have disabled people in their lives seem to have a much more practical view on this situation than the people who are shocked and appalled. It seems as though your attempt at empathy and tolerance has blinded your ability to see the reality of the situation.


kmc

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 12:57pm

I live with two disabled people, and I'm shocked and appalled. I'm also practical. You can be both, KJ!

And just because someone posts without telling us about their personal lives, it doesn't mean they DON'T have people with disabilities in their lives.

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 12:59pm

Whatever. You win and are right about everything. Life's not fair and I shouldn't share my opinions.

I know that. That isn't the point I am making. At the very least, these people don't seem to be addressing the issue in any sort of realistic way... which you have been to some degree... and I appreciate your comments for the most part.

Updated On: 2/7/08 at 12:59 PM

[Steve2]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 1:44pm

My (ex) partner and I took care of three developmentally disabled men for six years. They were profoundly retarded. In general their behavior was pretty good however several of them were prone to unexpected outbursts, and other antisocial behaviors. We tried to lead a "normal" life by seeing shows, movies, restaurants, going on vacations (San Diego, Disney Land, Las Vegas), etc.

Fortunately, there were two of us and if there was ANY behavior that would have diminished a positive "experience" for others (eating, watching movie, watching show), that person was OUT. In no way would we subject others to that and ruin their outing!

Updated On: 2/7/08 at 01:44 PM

[george95]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 2:02pm

Steve2, its great to hear that you were so responsible with the men in your care. I hope my disabled cousin's caregiver's stay as available and responsible as you.

And I have to say that your post really summed up what I think about this issue--and I'm kinda feeling like we are going in circles talking about this--

-one person says that if an impaired person disrupts a show, they shoudln't be allowed in the theater or to stay.
-the next person says "i'm shocked i'm appalled"
-next person says hey they're welcome in the theater, they just cant disrupt
-next person says "how can you be so cruel"
grrrrrrrrr!

[postergirl]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 2:19pm

It seems to me that too many people are taking specifics and responding to them as if they were generalities.
Also, people are ignoring the repeated use of the term "reasonable". While I admit that it is subjective, everyone who has posted has agreed that they have no problem with a "reasonable" disruption. But to get all shocked and appalled when people say there is a limit to the amount of disruption they can tolerate strikes me as ingenuous - everyone has limits.
Also, a lot of people in this thread are genuinely confused and asking for help in sorting out this complex problem.I think there is an assumption that all people who have had problems with disruption in the theatre are angry - I'm sure not all are - and many of those who have experienced anger I'm sure also experience the guilt and recrimination of not knowing where to put it. People are also disappointed, frustrated, upset, chagrinned, regretful etc.etc. And while we wish it were possible to always resolve things so everyone is happy, not every show has an intermission when house management can be consulted, and not everyone has an aisle seat, and no reasonable person wants to be unkind or hurtful or cause a bigger disruption than the one in progress.

[caitlinette]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 2:42pm

I'd also like to know what comments in this thread people have found shocking, appalling, and astonishing.

[jagfkb]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 3:01pm

This is a very delicate situation, however some theatres on Broadway are opting for a rather interesting idea come the near future. For these impaired audience members, some theatres will be setting up about two small rooms per theatre. In these rooms, should a metally impaired audience member become too distracting, there will be a medium size, adjustable for height televisions which run the show live for the person & their chaperone. I think this would be great, plus both ends meet with the audience member undistracted and the patron given the ability to watch.

Also, as a performer, I love performing for children with downsyndrome & such. Seeing their faces makes it so much worth while. Also, I've performed with actors with downsyndrome and they can do remarkably well in small featured roles, giving them a great oppertunity.

[turquoisefish]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 3:46pm

This is an issue that leaves me conflicted. My mother for many years worked with adults with learning disabilities and I know they have a lot of love and mean no harm.
I also love going to the theatre and am very easily distracted. There are distractions that shouldn't happen (the usher at the back counting money and the people in the front of the circle leaning and blocking my view) and there are distractions that can't be helped such as involuntary movement or noises from patrons.

I have seen 3 shows that have been distracted by shrieking and shouting from people with learning disabilities, on one occasion the person left (not sure if they were asked or their chaperone decided) and on the others they stayed. It is a very difficult situation, one on which i am glad that I don't have to make a decision.

[NYCblurb]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 4:06pm

Once while watching "Mama Mia", I was seated behind an autistic adult w/ his parents. He was very vocal, thrashed around a lot and seemed to enjoy the show. It did alter my experience, but thought that it's cool that their family could take in a night on Broadway.

The guy scared me me when the overture started and he jolted back, but once I got used to him...

Makes me grateful I gotta body n' brain that works.

I see the point though, and it's a good question.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 4:27pm

It's a good question with a rather simple answer:

Non-discriminatory means the box office must sell a ticket to those with mental/physical disabilities. Non-discriminatory also means they must be treated as any other audience members would, which means if there are complaints of loud audible distractions, ushers must ask them to be quiet or to leave. To treat them differently and allow them to distract the rest of the audience because they are disabled is discrimination. In addition, telling someone they do not have the right to complain because the disruption is caused by a disabled person is also discrimination.

Basically, non-discrimination is a double-edged sword.

[caitlinette]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 4:36pm

You hit it right on, Matt.

[MagicalMusical]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 4:44pm

Since it's true that disabled people are different, they should indeed be treated differently.

But they should get to enjoy everything that is possible for them to enjoy, and it's certainly possible for people around them to get used to noises after a while, even if they're loud.

Personally, I think it sucks that someone can't help the noises they make and might not even know they are disrupting people, and they do it sometimes and don't do it others, so sometimes they see a show and sometimes they can't.

WEll, why can't we without disabilities just suck it up? You know what? Sh*t happens. Life isn't fair. Sometimes your show gets canceled, sometimes your actors suck. And sometimes someone withd disabilities is gonna annoy you during a show.

Imagine being taken somewhere. You're not aware that your noises are disrupting people, or even that you're making noises, and you get removed from a show you were really enjoying. You might not understand everything except for some reason you can't enjoy the show your parents have been getting you all excited to see for who knows how long. I imagine it's an unfathomable sadness.

What, actors can't realize someone can't help certain noises and try to be, you know, good actors that overcome it?

I myself was in a situation in a movie theater where a girl kept making weird noises and I sucked it up. True, a movie's not as expensive, and I wasn't all that into the movie, but it's an example I have.

But if Broadway has that special room for disabled people, that seems a fantastic solution.
Updated On: 2/7/08 at 04:44 PM

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 5:22pm

Since it's true that disabled people are different, they should indeed be treated differently.

That one sentence opens the entire can of worms that is called "discrimination".

You know what? Sh*t happens. Life isn't fair.

You know what? That is the biggest copout answer to any question. It is applicable to virtually anything. I'm sorry, but you'll have to do better than that.

Personally, I think it sucks that someone can't help the noises they make and might not even know they are disrupting people, and they do it sometimes and don't do it others, so sometimes they see a show and sometimes they can't.

Well..."You know what? Sh*t happens. Life isn't fair."

Imagine being taken somewhere. You're not aware that your noises are disrupting people, or even that you're making noises, and you get removed from a show you were really enjoying. You might not understand everything except for some reason you can't enjoy the show your parents have been getting you all excited to see for who knows how long. I imagine it's an unfathomable sadness.

What sort of disability are you describing here? The selective awareness of the subject sounds pretty sketchy. And who are these parents who have no idea their disabled child may disrupt others at a live performance? There are loads of live activities and events that are not a big problem for those with disabilities that may cause distraction. Live theatre is quite different and there are limitations. Just as there are limitations on activities for those of other disabilities, physical or mental.

I myself was in a situation in a movie theater where a girl kept making weird noises and I sucked it up. True, a movie's not as expensive, and I wasn't all that into the movie, but it's an example I have.

I once had to eat a bad apple. It was actually a peach. And I chose to eat it. Though I hate peaches. Not to mention I'm allergic to peaches. But I sucked it up!

But if Broadway has that special room for disabled people, that seems a fantastic solution.

LOL Yeah, I'm sure they'd really appreciate that. So would the ADA and the ACLU...

Updated On: 2/7/08 at 05:22 PM

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 2/7/08 at 5:42pm

People at the theatre should be able to "enjoy" their experience (I use quotation marks because sometimes the show itself hinders this from happening). I mean ALL people, not just someone who is disabled.

It is, simply put, polite, respectful and fair to the audience--as well as the actors and orchestra--for anyone being consistently disruptive to leave. I have absolutely no problem agreeing with this.

What I have found objectionable in this thread has nothing to do with that. It's the way some posters have talked about people with developmental challenges that I find offensive.

I do get emotional about this issue because it is so personal for me. And that is what many people turn a blind eye to: the fact that it is a sensitive topic and a difficult one to come to terms with--whether it is at home, at the theatre, in school or work, and so forth. Whenever discrimination comes into the equation, it's very personal to people. We should all try a little harder to be aware of this and also try to choose language that is appropriate and kind.