Musicals and masculinity — Page 4

But jrb why cant we have fun with stereotypes? If we are able to laugh at our stereotypes they fail to have power. Dont take them so seriously is all Im saying.

It's funny. The two guys who first turned me on to MT in highschool were both straight. At our reunion last month it was great. One was married, the other engaged. We discussed the current shows and past obsessions and the fact that *I* was the one that ended up being queer. Everyone thought it would be them.

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No, it's not someone coming out as straight that bothers me. It's all of this masculine vs feminine talk, etc. It's that essentially it's a negative thing to be seen as gay for liking theatre.

And, this isn't the first thread to discuss this matter, so I admit that my comments and feelings on the subject are cumulative from prior discussions.

Hence, there's nothing wrong with me thank you.

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Updated On: 9/8/05 at 01:25 PM

No, sanda, because my comments aren't aimed exclusively to him. And, if you were indeed paying attention, I was directly debating this with too dramatic, though my comments weren't aimed exclusively for him.

So, back off.

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Why should I back off? My post did not point to you exclusively as well. I didnot even post under you. Some gay men really are easily to be offensive. I am a women, and I did not feel offensive with "feminine" at all. Why you feel so angry about relate theatre with "gay" or "feminine"? Let's admit it. Yeah, it is stereotype and there is always exception. So what, 60% theatre goers are women. And in this board, a lot male members are gays. That is a fact. Well, if it is stereotype about "feminine" , it does have foundation to support. Is it only in America this way? Then why American theatre is this way? We can ask question, find the reason or live with it. Just using "stereotype" to deny it, is that what you want?

So we are even.

Updated On: 9/8/05 at 01:42 PM

The problem is affirming your heterosexuality because people tease that you like musicals, which is a "queer" thing. It means that you, as the hetero, are offended at being classified gay and that you must proclaim that you are a "man". You can say "not that there's anything wrong with being gay" all you want. Because clearly, you do on some level believe that there is something wrong with being gay.

Well, I wasn't questioning your correcting those people. And your doing that actually does help to break down stereotypes. But, it all depends on the tone in which one does it. And, some of the tone in this thread has been questionable.

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lifestyle? there is a gay lifestyle? thats kind of offensive.

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Why are we trying to define everything?

Perhaps because this thread started with someone worrying that his love of musical theatre would cast aspersions on his "masculinity" (which, as been discussed ad nauseam, is exclusive neither to heterosexuality or homosexuality).

Even if he had said it cast aspersions on his heterosexuality, I can see why it would be a topic for discussion.

I guess it's all relative. I always thought there was some basis for truth in this stereotype because, apart from my father (who actually helped foster my love of musical theatre), I've met far more gay men than straight men who really loved musicals.

And we can all pat ourselves on the back when we post on this board, but the fact is there is still a huge anti-gay bias in this country (I do realize the original poster is from London, but I'm just going with what I know) and it's not gonna change until people just get the hell over it.

How do we get the hell over it? I'm not quite sure, though I'm willing to make a few suggestions (some of which have mentioned before, on this thread and others)

1. Stop immediately equating homosexuality with femininity.
2. By extension, stop equating femininity with something that is somehow lesser than masculinity.
3. Realize there is no more of a "gay lifestyle" than there is "straight lifestyle."
4. Accept that there's always gonna be someone who thinks that liking musicals is "gay."
5. If you're straight, realize that it's not the worst thing in the world to be thought of as gay. By all means, assert your heterosexuality if it comes into question, but also question why you yourself are associating with someone who makes a huge deal out of it.
6. Finally, if you're gay, please please please stop using the term "straight-acting." It's demeaning to you and every other gay out there, and it's also a complete crock. I hate to be the one to break it to you, but if you've had another man inside of you (or vice versa), that's about as far from "straight"-acting as you can get.

Grr. I've run out of steam. Ditto what Jerby said.

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Updated On: 9/9/05 at 02:48 AM

"If you're straight, realize that it's not the worst thing in the world to be thought of as gay."

Totally agree.

I used the phrase "lifestyle" incorrectly. I apoligize.

I am not your enemy, though, guys. Pick your battles wisely.

straight men should be allowed to enjoy the musical experience without being pidgeon holed into a stereotype...all people should be able to enjoy musicals with no adverse comments spoken...i would LOVE to take my husband or boyfriend enjoy a night on broadway with me...

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i think i understand where straight guys are comming from. i would be upset too if i were called something i'm not, whether it be gay, old(er), athletic, etc. it's just not who i am. imagine if you were gay and got teased by your gay friends about being straight all the time. plus, there's regular male teasing and then there's harrassing. if someone teased me about something, i'm fine w/ it. but i got called ANYTHING in an offensive way, i sure as hell would act up.

to all those guys complaining about gay bashing or whatever, it could be worse.

i come from mexico, and sexuality is a SERIOUSLY taboo topic, to the extent that gay man (or women) are not allowed to say they're gay. at all. universities will put on any show regardless of it's content, as long as it doesn't have any gay material in it (rent is thus, VERY taboo). in mexico calling someone gay is a serious insult.

be glad in america you have the freedom to be straight or gay as you please. i think in many ways, all cultures are the same and stem from the same place. the way things are in mexico is the way things were in the US a long time ago. be patient and wait for that "negative" attitude towards gay people to dissappear.

to the london boy, i understood what you meant about masculinity. i struggle with my femininity alot, because i refuse to be the stupid, submissive, giggly, bambi-eyed "woman" my culture expects me to be.

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