Musicals and masculinity — Page 5

good point.

however, i insist that at least you get to BE gay.

---

I'm not pouncing on you, toodramatic. Nothing I said was directed at you. This thread was started by someone looking for reassurance. He even said "thanks for the reassurance" on the first page. There are plenty of straight people out there who don't believe there's a "homosexual agenda" or a "gay lifestyle." You may well be one of them. But the fact remains that this thread is entitled, "Musicals and Masculinity" and the first comment says, "i find that loving musicals casts certain aspersions on my masculinity - despite being straight as a die," immediately equating masculinity with heterosexuality and femininity with homosexuality.

---

You are, of course, correct. There is no correlation between 'masculinity' and homosexuality. The word was very poorly chosen - one based on cliches, rather than rational thought.

A short anecdote, if i may:

I was talking to my girlfriend the other day and she said that she "loves the company of gay guys." This, to me, seemed completely irational. I concluded this - If people are to be defined by their sexuality, race, religion or sex, then we miss the point at hand about what people actually are. I explained to her that someone's sexuality was not their defining characteristic. I tried to explain that there are extremely boring, self-centered, vaccuous gay men and women, just as there are extremely boring, self-centred, vaccuous straight men and women.

The point, i think, is this. If we place emphasis on what a person is, rather than who they are, we miss the point of getting along in life. Recently in the British news there has been talk of changing the 'definition' of racial and national groups from things such as 'Muslim' to 'British Muslim' to aid intergration; a practice that is widely used and accepted in the USA and Canada. However, it seems that this is just another way to label someone based on ethnicity or religion, so that they may be defined by what they are, and sudjegated accordingly. To me this is unnaceptable. Instead of labelling someone as 'asian-British' couldn't people be assumed to be 'British' - a term to encompass all the veriety of cultures, ethnicity, and nationalities in this country? I don't know.

Maybe i'm wrong. Maybe people do need to feel special, that their culture is valued, cherished, and kept. As for homosexuality, i don't believe that being gay neccesarily defines a person. God knows i've met some incredibly nice, and some incredibly boring gay guys. I would hope that people have more character than to be defined by what they are, otherwise stereotypes will prevail and people will be defined by their supposed group, rather than their character - Liking theatre will be stereotypically cast as 'gay' and the subsistance and acceptance of all peoples - in both who people are, what people are like as people, and what people do will be tarnished, flushed, and minimalised.

---

I'm actually discovering there to more and more straight fellas in the theatre world these days, as opposed to the stereotype. Gay theatre majors are actually a minority in my school. Just an observation.

---

Well, I won't kick him. That sounds like some feminist bitch.

I am only angry when someone DID commit an injustice to me. I am not angry to anyone or talk about my anger to others who are not related. That is called victimizing. (is that right, or victimization? I am confused again.)

I'm really upset with this stereotype, and I'm afraid to even mention theatre when people ask what my hobbies are, etc. At least at school. It really hurts when Di2, a performer on this board who probably works with many gays, called me a fag several times through PMs. It was totally uncalled for and I reported her for abuse.

I was talking to my girlfriend the other day and she said that she "loves the company of gay guys."

A lot of women feel that way and I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. I know that there are things that my female friends get from me that they don't get from their straight male friends, and vice versa. It's really only a problem if someone is deliberately seeking any specific group of people to befriend simply because they're gay (or black, or Jewish, etc). I've been friends with people who were clearly friends with me because they wanted a "gay" friend, as though I were an accessory. It doesn't sound like that's what your girlfriend means (though since I don't know either of you, I'm only guessing). Perhaps she just loves the company of the gay men she knows. Trust me, there are plenty of sh!tty gay guys out there, too.

As for homosexuality, i don't believe that being gay necessarily defines a person. It doesn't always. nor does it doesn't have to. I think it's a fine line and it's an issue that comes up a lot within the gay community. The thing is, while I don't believe I am someone who makes my being gay the single most defining thing about me, there are others who do. And who I am to judge them? Whether you realize it or not, as a heterosexual you're almost always defined by that. It's not implicit and not generally talked about because heterosexuality is perceived as the norm. Because homosexuality deviates (god, I really wanted to use a better word there) from the "norm," often what is perceived as making one's homosexuality their calling card is no different from heterosexuals making it their calling card. Many people are immune to it, because the word is heterocentric (that's not pointing a finger or crying oppression. It just is).

It's much easier to not be defined by the group you fall into when you're in the majority. That's all.

---

may i just say: i LOVE musical theatre, its my life, i love going to theatre and performing, and i am definitely straight. no one has ever questioned my sexual preference, tho i am anything but "masculine". i take pleasure in blasting my MT cd's in my car when i pull up at a red light. ive never been worried, or even given a thought as to whether or not people think im gay. it doesnt matter to me. and as far as connecting homosexuality with femininity and all that, i know i would give anything to be able to dance like some of those guys on stage and in ballet. for me, i dont care if someone is gay or not, but watching a guy dance on stage is beautiful, and to do that doesnt seem feminine to me at all, just a beautiful artform. so, all this talk of gay lifestyles and straight lifestyles and masculinity...i think its all irrelevant when talking about theatre

Kringas,

Thanks for your elaborate answer about my post. What do I want gays do? I don't want anything. That is not my intention. You decide what you guys want to do. What I am doing is to give out what I am thinking honestly. You decide whether there is some reason inside or simply nonsence. I read your post and know what you really feel. I can be persuaded by you or hold my position stubbornly. That is up to me. If I only say, " I support Gay right! I care a lot about this issue. " That is not true and I won't respect myself even if it may earn some respect from you.

jrb, if my opinion makes you feel angry and don't want to discuss more about it. That is fine.

amasis, you misunderstood me. My confusion is referring to my grammar, whether I should use "victimizing" or "victimization".

"It's much easier to not be defined by the group you fall into when you're in the majority. That's all."

Yes. It is easier not to be defined when you're in the majority because the majority makes the defnintions. Indeed, one can see it in the very colloquially used, yet widely spread, terminology of 'Gay' and 'Straight' - the opposite of straight being bent and, therefore, implicitly wrong. If people are not to be defined by what they are, rather than who they are, there needs to be a dramatic overhaul of perceptions in the majority, and the minority. If the gay community presents itself as 'different' the majority will treat it as different.

It seems to me that the push needs to be towards tacit acceptance that homosexuality is a norm affecting a complete change in attitude from the whole of society. This push has to come from both the majority and the minority groups, even down to words such as 'straight.'

---

Birds seem find the whole "Les Mis then some dinner," date pretty irresistable.

hahaha, my best friend Keri and I had a discussion yesterday about this. Why aren't more straight men in theater? It's a great way to meet girls!

---

Kringas--you speak the truth!

Sanda--not angry, just out of Advil, darlin'.

---