My Thoughts On PAL JOEY- Page 2

[best12bars]

Posted: 11/16/08 at 4:14pm

I think you want somebody "nice" for Joey, because his actions are anything but.

If he comes across as dangerous or even remotetly slimy or sleezy it doesn't work. It makes all the people around him (particularly the ladies) look like idiots for falling for his crap.

I would like to see Patrick Wilson. I think that's a great idea, and he was terrific as another anti-hero in the L.A. production of "Carousel" a few years ago. He's good at playing against type. And he knows how to make you feel something for a really unlikable guy.

I also think Cheyenne Jackson would be great, but he's a little busy these days.

We need to be drawn to the charm and the charisma and the sex appeal of Joey. We need to fall in love with him ourselves.

I don't want him to look like he should be running a Tilt-a-Whirl at the local carnival. He shouldn't be wearing a sign on him saying "you must be tall enough to ride on this ride" or look out!

Let his actions show us how dangerous and opportunistic he really is. Not his "type."

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/16/08 at 4:20pm

Gene Kelly was "nice" but his Dark Irish colors apparently gave him the kind of edge he displays in his screen debut, For Me and My Gal, with Judy Garland.

Plus, in real life, apparently, despite his screen persona, he was self-centered and could be somewhat of a prick. He simply was Joey, although a nicer joey than in the O'Hara short stories.

I think the role may simply be uncastable.

[best12bars]

Posted: 11/16/08 at 4:45pm

It's a tough one, no doubt.

Unless the audience can feel SOMETHING for Joey, the whole thing goes out the window.

[jewishboy]

Posted: 11/16/08 at 4:57pm

Also, one of the reasons we don't know who would be exactly right for Joey is because not many dancers get to show off their stuff any more. Shows are not really created to offer dancers opportunities to show off their acting abilities. Now, Noah Racey did get a chance in "Never Gonna Dance," but I don't think the show's failure was his inability as a leading man, though I can't testify to his presence throughout the show.

[Q]

Posted: 11/16/08 at 5:02pm

Hugh Jackman is the only one mentioned who would have made me buy a ticket.

[NYadgal]

Posted: 11/16/08 at 6:09pm

Or two.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 11/16/08 at 6:34pm

No offense best12, but I think Cheyenne has been oversold at this board as right for everything. He's wonderful, but he's Doris Day where we need Etta James.

I always thought post SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER, the young Travolta might've made a compelling Joey.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/16/08 at 7:25pm

He would have--if he hadn't gotten so weird and plastic-y after that movie.

[Ed_Mottershead]

Posted: 11/16/08 at 7:27pm

As regular posters on this board may have figured out by now, I adore Cheyenne Jackson. That being said, I don't think Joey is right for him. One, he's not primarly a dancer; two, he's simply too large to be convincing as a worm; three, I don't think he could put over the basic phoniness of the part. On the other hand, I would LOVE to see him take a crack at Billy Bigelow, whose smarminess is comprimised by his self-doubt. This is an area which Cheyenne hasn't presented to the NY theater-going public to date -- but I think the potential is there. IMO.

[logan0215]

Posted: 11/16/08 at 11:53pm

I really don't think its an uncastable role folks.

Its called acting. Does Charlize Theron look like she could be an overweight lesbian serial killer?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/17/08 at 12:09am

Huh?

[jewishboy]

Posted: 11/17/08 at 12:20am

I know he's kind of disappeared from the Broadway scene and I don't how old he is, or looks, now, but how about Stanley Wayne Mathis as a possible Joey?

[B3TA07]

Posted: 11/17/08 at 12:41am

Michael.
Benjamin.
Washington.

[MamasDoin'Fine]

Posted: 11/17/08 at 12:43am

Saw it tonight- a tremendous show that is breath of fresh air from all the 'new' shows around. Stockard is brilliant in the perfect roll for her.
Thank goodness for the special Sunday 7.30pm show tonight or i wouldn't have caught this great production.

[logan0215]

Posted: 11/17/08 at 12:55am

What are you confused about PJ?

You seem to be typing every person out that is suggested for the role and then stating it is impossible to cast which is an absurd idea.

Just because Gene Kelly isn't alive to play the role again, doesn't mean that there aren't other perfectly capable actors who can pull off the singing/dancing/acting. For example: saying Patrick Wilson isn't "dangerous" is insane considering he is is a strong actor who is able to make the strong choices in order to shape a character.

[cat4]

Posted: 11/17/08 at 9:39am

Saw it on Sunday.

Agree with everyone that Christian Hoff can't really dance or sing. 10 minutes into the show I found myself thinking :"How nice it would have been with Gene Kelly doing the show....." And then I thought, maybe Antonio Banderas 15 years younger. (Hugh Jackman is probably too likable, Matthew Morrison looks a bit too young.) Tommy DeVito in Jersey Boys was a great role for Hoff. But here in Pal Joey, the lack of dancing and singing skills shows. And one can't help but wonder why so many women would fall for him as he's not even a bit charming in the role. Maybe he's trying to pull a Frank Sinatra here (as in the film version), but near the end of Act I when he was doing some dancing, it was painful to watch.

Stockard Channing's acting was topnotch, nice to see her back on B'way. Not sure though if this is the right role for her. Her singing is just average and I guess it didn't help that I listened to the 1995 Encores! recording earlier yesterday in which Patti LuPone had the part.

Marth Plimpton & Jenny Fellner are the better singers in the show. And credits to the costume designers. The black/sheer gown Channing wore was stunning.

In an ideal world producers would cast people most suitable (and with the best singing/dancing/acting skills) for the roles. But this is not an ideal world, and in an economic environment like this, they'll probably keep putting big names on B'way to seel tix, regardless of their qualifications.

This is not the worst new musical this season, and I'm just happy to see a revival (albeit a mediocre one) of a beloved musical, paying $30+. (Not sure if I'd say the same had I paid $121...)

Posted: 11/17/08 at 9:43am

Excuse my ignorance, but how does the book come off? Do they use the Richard Greenberg 1992 revisal? a new revisal?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/17/08 at 10:08am

I've been accused of being insane on this board for much less than saying Patrick Wilson is not dangerous enough to play Pal Joey.

Pal Joey is a subject I've given a little thought to--or I wouldn't have chosen this as my screen name 4 1/2 years ago.

The entertainment world doesn't really breed the kind of song-and-dance man that Kelly and Joey came out of, and there are the kind of employment opportunities for "hoofers" in nightclubs all over the country. Joey is not a ballet dancer and he's not a singer. He's a hoofer.

The character in the stories (see my avatar) is egocentric, inconsiderate and clueless. But you don't have to like the main character in a short story the way you have to like the main character in a musical.

When Rodgers and Hart and O'Hara and George Abbott created they musical, they had no intention of softening O'Hara's hard edge. They lucked into casting Kelly, who had all the performing abilities Joey had in the stories, plus the charm we came to see in his Hollywood movies. You can see in the clip below how effortless his hoofing was in the show.

When singers are cast as Joey, the story falls flat, as it did with Sinatra. When actors are cast, it totally falls flat. When ballet dancers who can hoof and sing are cast (Harold Lang), it works better but probably doesn't solve the essential problem of the book.

I think that Pal Joey may uncastable the same way Merrily We Roll Along may be undirectable. Sometimes the writers take brave chances and end up with problems that cannot be solved. That's theater.

The reason some of us are saying Hugh Jackman is that his feral sexuality comes across in the film work he's done, and the dancing he did as Peter Allen was the kind of dancing Joey would have done.

And cat4--the costume designer was the genius William Ivey Long.

Updated On: 11/17/08 at 10:08 AM

[best12bars]

Posted: 11/17/08 at 10:15am

I think PJ forgot to post the clip he mentioned, but here it is...
Rare Gene Kelly footage from the original "Pal Joey"

[madbrian]

Posted: 11/17/08 at 10:21am

I still think Tony Yazbek seems to fit the bill.

[best12bars]

Posted: 11/17/08 at 10:22am

So do I.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/17/08 at 10:40am

His "All I Need Is the Girl" certainly makes a dynamite audition piece for the role. Between his tough-kid persona and the the way he was directed by Arthur to be even self-involved than Tulsa usually is, he's very Joey-like.

Could he carry a show at this point in his career?

[TulitaPepsi]

Posted: 11/17/08 at 10:44am

Hoff's involvement is what has so dampened my enthusiasm for this revival. PJ is right...you need a DANCER first and foremost. Why Hoff? I'll see it, but don't expect much.

I'd love to see Jeffry Denman tackle PAL JOEY. One of the best 'old skool' hoofers (who also posesses an encyclopedic knowledge of Astaire and Kelly) the tall, lean, bright-eyed and strawberry-blond Denman has always played cheerful, peppy Archie Andrews types (as can be seen in the wonderful WHITE CHRISTMAS). At first glance one might not think of him as a good fit for Joey. Yet in YANK! (at Gallery Players last year and at two readings at the York earlier this month) Denman revealed a side to him I'd not seen before: both darkly masculine and sexy and slightly sleazy and menacing. He also fills his khakis very well. :) I think he'd make an exciting Joey - he also shows mucho star charisma in WHITE CHRISTMAS.

Bernadette is my ideal Vera.

Updated On: 11/17/08 at 10:44 AM

[somethingwicked]

Posted: 11/17/08 at 10:52am

TulitaPepsi, Bernadette Peters was terrific in the workshop she did opposite Hoff, but Donna Murphy was even better in the one she participated in.

While Stockard Channing brings a really unique and vulnerable sophistication to her Vera (and will only get better as previews go on,) it's a shame Murphy wasn't interested in exploring the role further in a commercial run.

Cyndi Lauper was also quite fantastic as Gladys in some of the early developmental phases of this production, though Martha Plimpton is (dare I say) superior.

Updated On: 11/17/08 at 10:52 AM

[TulitaPepsi]

Posted: 11/17/08 at 10:55am

SomethingWicked, You're right. I'll bet Murphy aced Vera even more than Bernadette. Murphy has a bemused worldly-weary quality I don't think Ms. Peters quite posesses.