#76
Posted: 1/2/10 at 2:31pm
I'm seeing it tonight...whether I like it or not.
NINE - I've kept my silence until now... — Page 4
#77
Posted: 1/2/10 at 2:47pm
Just be prepared PJ- between horrified transfixtion where you want to but can't look away are the moments you turn away unable to stand watching. Good Luck
#78
Posted: 1/2/10 at 3:02pm
It's a rollercoaster alright-moments of sheer brilliance intermingled with moments of horrendous misguided vision.
"The sexual energy between the mother and son really concerns me!"-random woman behind me at Next to Normal
"I want to meet him after and bang him!"-random woman who exposed her breasts at Rock of Ages, referring to James Carpinello
#79
Posted: 1/2/10 at 3:26pm
After watching ALL of Bob Fosse's films in the days since I was exposed to the lethal virus of the NINE film I am now absolutely certain that essentially every shot, motivation, set-up and execution is stolen outright from Fosse...
"I Can't Make This Movie" as "Maybe This Time" being the most outright plagiarism that hasn't been noted up until this point.
P
"I Can't Make This Movie" as "Maybe This Time" being the most outright plagiarism that hasn't been noted up until this point.
P
#80
Posted: 1/2/10 at 3:41pm
The reason for hatred is this.
There aren't a lot of movie musicals made so when one comes to fruition we are rooting for it to be wonderful.
So when its good we are disappointed but we say at least it got made.
When it is awful as Nine is--WE ARE ANGRY.
We don't want THEM to screw up musicas because there are so few of them.
It lacks the amazing cinematographay, suprising visuals and art direction of any of Fellini's Films especially 8 1/2 and also lacks the artistic vision and choregraphic brilliance it had onstage under Tommy Tunes direction.
The choreography looks like stuff we've seen many times before and much better
The story is uninvolving and who heck cares about the rich and powerful Guido Coniti? And yes this was a problem with the stage musical as well.
What saved the musical was the interesting Song and Dance Stylings of Liliane Montevecchi, Camille Saviola, Anita Morris and others--- each women more fascinating and unique than the last
In this version all the woman look the same. Yawn.
Nine was an abortion for many reasons.
The stolen flashback from Chicago where Rob Marshall steals from himself.
Did he really think this would work again?
Nine is a missed opportunity. It is dull, It is uninvolving. It is not colorful and artistic the way Fellini's 8 !/2 was and the chorography is awful.
I am afraid what he will do with Kiss of the Spiderwoman
Missed Musical opportunites make me angry.
I AM ANGRY AT NINE
I WAS ANGRY AT SWEENEY TODD
AND
I WAS ANGRY AT HAIRSPRAY FOR THE MISCASTING OF JOHN TRAVOLTA WHILE ALL AROUND HIM THE FILM WAS GOOD.
I was delighted with Chicago. Do they dare trust Rob Marshall with another musical?
There aren't a lot of movie musicals made so when one comes to fruition we are rooting for it to be wonderful.
So when its good we are disappointed but we say at least it got made.
When it is awful as Nine is--WE ARE ANGRY.
We don't want THEM to screw up musicas because there are so few of them.
It lacks the amazing cinematographay, suprising visuals and art direction of any of Fellini's Films especially 8 1/2 and also lacks the artistic vision and choregraphic brilliance it had onstage under Tommy Tunes direction.
The choreography looks like stuff we've seen many times before and much better
The story is uninvolving and who heck cares about the rich and powerful Guido Coniti? And yes this was a problem with the stage musical as well.
What saved the musical was the interesting Song and Dance Stylings of Liliane Montevecchi, Camille Saviola, Anita Morris and others--- each women more fascinating and unique than the last
In this version all the woman look the same. Yawn.
Nine was an abortion for many reasons.
The stolen flashback from Chicago where Rob Marshall steals from himself.
Did he really think this would work again?
Nine is a missed opportunity. It is dull, It is uninvolving. It is not colorful and artistic the way Fellini's 8 !/2 was and the chorography is awful.
I am afraid what he will do with Kiss of the Spiderwoman
Missed Musical opportunites make me angry.
I AM ANGRY AT NINE
I WAS ANGRY AT SWEENEY TODD
AND
I WAS ANGRY AT HAIRSPRAY FOR THE MISCASTING OF JOHN TRAVOLTA WHILE ALL AROUND HIM THE FILM WAS GOOD.
I was delighted with Chicago. Do they dare trust Rob Marshall with another musical?
#81
Posted: 1/2/10 at 3:49pm
I haven't seen Nine yet, but I'm currently watching the 1999 version of Annie which Rob Marshall directed, and it's like an old-fashioned musical. He did an amazing job on it. Where on earth did he get the idea that musical numbers have to take place in the minds of characters in order for it to be believeable? So, we're supposed to believe that someone can jump off a 50 story building and live, but we can't buy people singing in real time? Honestly, I think a movie musical is more successful if you are upfront in the beginning that the characters are going to be expressing their deepest emotions in song and dance. Once the audience gets it, then it's all good.
#82
Posted: 1/2/10 at 4:00pm
The reason for hatred is this.
There aren't a lot of movie musicals made so when one comes to fruition we are rooting for it to be wonderful.
So when its good we are disappointed but we say at least it got made.
When it is awful as Nine is--WE ARE ANGRY.
We don't want THEM to screw up musicas because there are so few of them.
It lacks the amazing cinematographay, suprising visuals and art direction of any of Fellini's Films especially 8 1/2 and also lacks the artistic vision and choregraphic brilliance it had onstage under Tommy Tunes direction.
The choreography looks like stuff we've seen many times before and much better
The story is uninvolving and who heck cares about the rich and powerful Guido Coniti? And yes this was a problem with the stage musical as well.
What saved the musical was the interesting Song and Dance Stylings of Liliane Montevecchi, Camille Saviola, Anita Morris and others--- each women more fascinating and unique than the last
In this version all the woman look the same. Yawn.
Nine was an abortion for many reasons.
The stolen flashback from Chicago where Rob Marshall steals from himself.
Did he really think this would work again?
Nine is a missed opportunity. It is dull, It is uninvolving. It is not colorful and artistic the way Fellini's 8 !/2 was and the chorography is awful.
I am afraid what he will do with Kiss of the Spiderwoman
Missed Musical opportunites make me angry.
I AM ANGRY AT NINE
I WAS ANGRY AT SWEENEY TODD
AND
I WAS ANGRY AT HAIRSPRAY FOR THE MISCASTING OF JOHN TRAVOLTA WHILE ALL AROUND HIM THE FILM WAS GOOD.
I was delighted with Chicago. Do they dare trust Rob Marshall with another musical?
There aren't a lot of movie musicals made so when one comes to fruition we are rooting for it to be wonderful.
So when its good we are disappointed but we say at least it got made.
When it is awful as Nine is--WE ARE ANGRY.
We don't want THEM to screw up musicas because there are so few of them.
It lacks the amazing cinematographay, suprising visuals and art direction of any of Fellini's Films especially 8 1/2 and also lacks the artistic vision and choregraphic brilliance it had onstage under Tommy Tunes direction.
The choreography looks like stuff we've seen many times before and much better
The story is uninvolving and who heck cares about the rich and powerful Guido Coniti? And yes this was a problem with the stage musical as well.
What saved the musical was the interesting Song and Dance Stylings of Liliane Montevecchi, Camille Saviola, Anita Morris and others--- each women more fascinating and unique than the last
In this version all the woman look the same. Yawn.
Nine was an abortion for many reasons.
The stolen flashback from Chicago where Rob Marshall steals from himself.
Did he really think this would work again?
Nine is a missed opportunity. It is dull, It is uninvolving. It is not colorful and artistic the way Fellini's 8 !/2 was and the chorography is awful.
I am afraid what he will do with Kiss of the Spiderwoman
Missed Musical opportunites make me angry.
I AM ANGRY AT NINE
I WAS ANGRY AT SWEENEY TODD
AND
I WAS ANGRY AT HAIRSPRAY FOR THE MISCASTING OF JOHN TRAVOLTA WHILE ALL AROUND HIM THE FILM WAS GOOD.
I was delighted with Chicago. Do they dare trust Rob Marshall with another musical?
#83
Posted: 1/2/10 at 4:26pm
I didn't expect much, but I liked it without too much going in. I haven't seen the Raul Julia or Banderas productions, so other than cast recordings, I can't compare them much to Day Lewis, who seems to sing just about as well as them without being a singularly possessing singer- neither were they.
However, Nine did seem oddly pretentious at times- maybe just because musicals have become so self-referential and meta, or maybe just because it's trying to be an art film about art films.
However, Nine did seem oddly pretentious at times- maybe just because musicals have become so self-referential and meta, or maybe just because it's trying to be an art film about art films.
#84
Posted: 1/2/10 at 4:26pm
"When it is awful as Nine is--WE ARE ANGRY."
Seriously? How could you have not known before entering the movie theater? When people were giddily posting the "First Trailer From Nine" threads I watched it once and said "It's going to be dreadful." How could any of you have thought otherwise?
Seriously? How could you have not known before entering the movie theater? When people were giddily posting the "First Trailer From Nine" threads I watched it once and said "It's going to be dreadful." How could any of you have thought otherwise?
Twitter @NamoInExile
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#85
Posted: 1/2/10 at 4:29pm
I agree with the OP. I saw a screening about a month ago, and I almost cried I was so disappointed. I had such high hopes. And I don't know the original, so I was seeing it fresh, as a lot of the theatregoing public is seeing it. It was just a mess. So upsetting. And I thought Cinema Italiano was one of the worst songs I've ever heard in a musical - the spoken/rap/Blondie-esque verse in the middle, when she talks about Italian guys in their skinny ties? Oh my god, groan. Awful.
#86
Posted: 1/2/10 at 4:33pm
Not everyone judges films based on trailers, Namo, and thank goodness they don't. THERE WILL BE BLOOD and any number of recent cinematic masterpieces do not work well as trailers. Frankly, I'd be hard pressed to think of anyone besides you who had anything negative to say about the first trailer and, frankly, the only positive thing I can remember you posting about in the last year or so was Yoko Ono's new album. I really can't think of anything else you liked. Just my observation, nothing personal, and I find the whole "I told you so- the trailer sucked!" argument incredibly reductive and pointless at this point in time.
P
P
#87
Posted: 1/2/10 at 4:41pm
Sorry you can't think of any. Luckily you're not the official record keeper of things I liked.
Twitter @NamoInExile
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#88
Posted: 1/2/10 at 5:14pm
The dread names ROB MARSHALL (as director) and ANTHONY MINGHELLA (as co-screenwriter) would be enough to alert a smart moviegoer that NINE was going to be a disaster.
Interesting to note that Marshall only did to NINE what he did to CHICAGO. Nobody but a small and loudly shouted-down minority seemed to have a problem with CHICAGO. Why all the ruckus about NINE?
Interesting to note that Marshall only did to NINE what he did to CHICAGO. Nobody but a small and loudly shouted-down minority seemed to have a problem with CHICAGO. Why all the ruckus about NINE?
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick
My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
#89
Posted: 1/2/10 at 6:05pm
I liked Chicago but was not thrilled with his cutting some key numbers out, It was nothing compared to the hatchet job he did on NINE. Staging Be Italian as he did as opposed to how it was in the show was a bit of overkill.
You would appreciate it more if you did not see the show.
You would appreciate it more if you did not see the show.
Poster Emeritus
#90
Posted: 1/2/10 at 6:25pm
The only song I missed in CHICAGO was "My Own Best Friend". The omission of that number, particularly given Condon's quite brilliant conceit for it in the original shooting script, was a major mistake. I was not so sad to see the rest of the score go. The music for "Me And My Baby" underscoring the doctor scene was enough of that to keep me happy (ala "Pineapple" or "Married" on the Victrola in CABARET) and I've always found the Mary Sunshine material weak and filler. I would have been interested to see them actually film the "Ten Percent" number, though, as was originally planned. "Class" is a part of the film, as far as I'm concerned, since it is on the DVD.
As I pointed out in my review of the NINE soundtrack and previous cast recordings of the show, I had already come to terms with the cuts and additions Marshall had made to the score before I saw the film. The problem is that the only material that remotely worked in the film was the new material, and even that really didn't work in the grand scheme of things. While I do think "Take It All" is as good and as effective a song as "Be On Your Own" is on stage (and I do not think that song would work on film) the staging and way the song ends is just mind-blowingly bad. Again, "Cinema Italiano" is the only song I felt worked for Marshall's imposed "vision" of NINE as it exists on film. And the vastly rewritten and re-arranged "Unusual Way", at least with some toning down of the back-and-forth editing, is generally effective and along with "CI" the only moment of potential what-could-have-been greatness in the whole film. The rest goes from bad to worse to I don't even know what.
P
As I pointed out in my review of the NINE soundtrack and previous cast recordings of the show, I had already come to terms with the cuts and additions Marshall had made to the score before I saw the film. The problem is that the only material that remotely worked in the film was the new material, and even that really didn't work in the grand scheme of things. While I do think "Take It All" is as good and as effective a song as "Be On Your Own" is on stage (and I do not think that song would work on film) the staging and way the song ends is just mind-blowingly bad. Again, "Cinema Italiano" is the only song I felt worked for Marshall's imposed "vision" of NINE as it exists on film. And the vastly rewritten and re-arranged "Unusual Way", at least with some toning down of the back-and-forth editing, is generally effective and along with "CI" the only moment of potential what-could-have-been greatness in the whole film. The rest goes from bad to worse to I don't even know what.
P
Updated On: 1/2/10 at 06:25 PM
#91
Posted: 1/2/10 at 7:58pm
I just think there will be backlash when a director is given so many resources (big budget, A list actors, amazing costumes, etc) and the film blows. It will impact all future musicals as NINE will be cited as a cautionary tale for studios to spend less.
"The sexual energy between the mother and son really concerns me!"-random woman behind me at Next to Normal
"I want to meet him after and bang him!"-random woman who exposed her breasts at Rock of Ages, referring to James Carpinello
#92
Posted: 1/2/10 at 8:00pm
It's too bad action movies or comedies aren't held to the same standard. Nobody's ever said "Ooooh, the new Schwarzenegger movie bombed at the box office. It's going to be a long time before we see someone try to make another action movie!"
It's ridiculous that musicals are held to a different standard than any other genre of film as far as that goes.
It's ridiculous that musicals are held to a different standard than any other genre of film as far as that goes.
#93
Posted: 1/2/10 at 8:43pm
I agree, Jordan!
It's too bad that Marshall and Weinstein (who saw big dollar signs) were trying so hard to replicate the success of Chicago. They sacrificed the essence of NINE in the process.
Come to think of it, Bob Fosse came closer to capturing both the essence of Nine AND Chicago with the movie "All That Jazz."
But "All That Jazz" didn't come close to the commercial success of the film version of Chicago. Actually no film musical has for 25 years.
They were blinded by that fact. And it hurt NINE the movie, no question.
It's too bad that Marshall and Weinstein (who saw big dollar signs) were trying so hard to replicate the success of Chicago. They sacrificed the essence of NINE in the process.
Come to think of it, Bob Fosse came closer to capturing both the essence of Nine AND Chicago with the movie "All That Jazz."
But "All That Jazz" didn't come close to the commercial success of the film version of Chicago. Actually no film musical has for 25 years.
They were blinded by that fact. And it hurt NINE the movie, no question.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#94
Posted: 1/2/10 at 8:46pm
Well to be fair, most action movies aren't nearly as tough a sell or as big of a risk as movie musicals. Especially one like Nine. Movie musicals are still pretty rare these days. We're lucky if one or two come out each year.. If an action movie flops there's always another one lined up right behind it.
"You drank a charm to kill John Proctor's wife! You drank a charm to kill Goody Proctor!" - Betty Parris to Abigail Williams in Arthur Miller's The Crucible
#95
Posted: 1/2/10 at 10:03pm
I liked the "Cinema Italiano" number, but if Rob Marshall is allowed anywhere near a film version of Follies, I think we should all form a picket line outside the set every day.
When did he become a cliche of himself?
When did he become a cliche of himself?
#96
Posted: 1/2/10 at 10:06pm
"When did he become a cliche of himself?"
When was he ever anything but?
When was he ever anything but?
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick
My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
#97
Posted: 1/2/10 at 10:20pm
I think after this, mr marshall will not be directing any more musicals for awhile. Sadly, this may sour Hollywood on musicals for ahile also.
Poster Emeritus
#98
Posted: 1/3/10 at 12:23am
Mr. marshall is directing the latest Disney PIRATES movie,
OK it's the third (or fourth)?, but it's still a great gig
and messing up NINE will be a skip in the road.
Most movies I see these days have director's I never heard of.
GEISHA was poorly received and (i think) not a huge financial hit and yet he did NINE, he'll be back.
OK it's the third (or fourth)?, but it's still a great gig
and messing up NINE will be a skip in the road.
Most movies I see these days have director's I never heard of.
GEISHA was poorly received and (i think) not a huge financial hit and yet he did NINE, he'll be back.
#99
Posted: 1/3/10 at 12:32am
What did you think of "Unusual Way", PJ? I thought that was the only highlight besides "CI", even though it was edited to shreds.
P
P
#100
Posted: 1/3/10 at 1:04am
Marshall got NINE...BECAUSE...he did CHICAGO. Geisha wasn't held against him probably because it was different( well different enough) from what is/was considered his strength- placing a musical on screen successfully. I don't think that will be the case now.
After the success of CHICAGO a lot of directors expressed interest in trying the form but I've begun to think this was just a brief sparkle of the gene that will now fade away again.f
Even if we are not completely happy w DREAMGIRLS or HAIRSPRAY or even SWEENY TODD at least they were made and are recorded on film( or video) to pull out whenever we wish.
No one really starts out trying to deliberatley make a BAD film.
But if you don't know what is working and not and then start making compromises to accomodate the needs of your STARS ( ie I can't dance but you should make me look like I can) cos you need STARS to get the picture made ahhh crap. Here it is in a nut shell- Marshall is a hack who got real lucky and stayed to long at the table. BUSTED.
After the success of CHICAGO a lot of directors expressed interest in trying the form but I've begun to think this was just a brief sparkle of the gene that will now fade away again.f
Even if we are not completely happy w DREAMGIRLS or HAIRSPRAY or even SWEENY TODD at least they were made and are recorded on film( or video) to pull out whenever we wish.
No one really starts out trying to deliberatley make a BAD film.
But if you don't know what is working and not and then start making compromises to accomodate the needs of your STARS ( ie I can't dance but you should make me look like I can) cos you need STARS to get the picture made ahhh crap. Here it is in a nut shell- Marshall is a hack who got real lucky and stayed to long at the table. BUSTED.
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