Omar Sharif?!- Page 2

[binau]

Posted: 6/14/18 at 12:49pm

It's hard to watch but not too shocking when you consider that Egypt, like many Islamic countries, is a terribly sexist society. I hope that so called 'progressives' can call out these blatantly sexist right-wing attitudes and values for what they are, standing up for genuinely progressive values and progressive attitudes. Unfortunately, the current state of play is that they would rather deny the human rights atrocities happening for women (and gay people) in much of the Islamic world for fear of appearing 'racist'. It's much easier to turn their attention to whether we should be saying fisherman or fisherperson.

Updated On: 6/14/18 at 12:49 PM

[Kad]

Posted: 6/14/18 at 12:53pm

What a surprise, qolbinau finds the flimsiest of pretenses to shoehorn in his well-worn talking points.

[binau]

Posted: 6/14/18 at 12:57pm

I actually don't think it's flimsy at all - it's a very specific example of the effect of the kind of right-wing values we are dealing with. It's incredibly important that we don't just watch that video and blame Omar Sharif as an individual/think he is 'sexist' without first understanding the systems and indoctrination he was exposed to as a child. This is not an individual-level problem but a systemic problem. And you can never solve a problem if you don't recognise it exists in the first place. So called 'progressives' are always happy to talk about patriarchy and systemic sexism as long as it's not an Islamic country. 

Updated On: 6/14/18 at 12:57 PM

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 6/14/18 at 1:02pm

I think you need to stop painting "progressives" with such a broad brush. There's a lot of heterogeneity within leftist or simply human rights activism that doing so is truly ignoring the work of many activists, academics, and organizations that do bring attention to human rights abuses in many countries. It's also sort of showing how out-of-touch you might be because there's been so much talk about it in many big circles or you may be conflating people's nuanced approach recognizing that racism and needing to understand that patriarchy across all major societies (not just in Islamic countries) do come into play when discussing the best ways to address and invoke change. The slow process may also be recognizing that changes need to be encouraged internally as well as forcefulness is ineffective and will be exploited to be seen as another form of Western imperialism which will then backfire on any efforts to invoke change because that is a real fear (indoctrinated or not) tactic that is effective against any progressive change from happening. 

The problem isn't what you're ultimately saying about human rights abuses, it just seriously comes across as attention-seeking and you being much more interested in revealing "progressive" hypocrisy than anything else. Your posts read like you're only using homophobia and sexism in the Islamic world as a way to just attack "progressives". And we know you're ultimately anti-religion, which I think is actually a valid stance, but you repeat the same things and shoe-horn it into conversations that aren't asking for that discussion. It starts to look like an exercise in self-centeredness.

Updated On: 6/14/18 at 01:02 PM

[binau]

Posted: 6/14/18 at 1:10pm

I will be more careful to perhaps use the term regressive left instead of 'progressives', because of course it's only a fraction (much larger than I would like) of progressives that seem to turn a blind eye to the awful human rights issues happening in almost every Islamic country on earth - especially towards gay people, and often towards women. 

But let's not forget how we got onto this topic - the main point I had to say about this (and we could have stopped at that) is we can't just post a video of Omar Sheriff hitting a woman and blame him for that. It's a very western-centric view to blame him as an individual, ignoring the cultural factors and systemic sexism that likely led to that moment. I should resist the urge to take this and then direct criticism towards the regressive left, sorry.

Updated On: 6/14/18 at 01:10 PM

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 6/14/18 at 1:15pm

I honestly do think you're seriously overstating the issue as well. If there's one thing people accuse the left of, is whining and in-fighting. For somebody who truly thinks we have to brush aside human rights abuses with regard to women and the LGBTQ community, there will be more responses clapping back and accusing that person of being regressive. It's sort of a true and albeit funny joke that once somebody comes up with a new progressive strategy or theory, there will already be manifestos ready to critique it and talk about its short-sightedness or how it ignores other issues, etc.

I do agree that the left community, like all humans, do have a tendency to overlook problematic issues of their heroes and whatnot, but of course we see where that has lead them. Younger people or people who have always yelled about it are leading the way to stop overlooking people's very real issues even if they were touted as some sort of hero previously. It's not perfect and there are people who still get the luxury of being given a blindspot, but all changes are always on-going and a process.

Updated On: 6/14/18 at 01:15 PM

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 6/14/18 at 1:19pm

qolbinau said: "But let's not forget how we got onto this topic - the main point I had to say about this (and we could have stopped at that) is we can't just post a video of Omar Sheriff hitting a woman and blame him for that. It's a very western-centric view toblame him as an individual, ignoring the cultural factors and systemic sexism that likely led to that moment. I should resist the urge to take this and then direct criticism towards the regressive left, sorry."

I actually agree with this. The look on his face was certainly one of entitlement, like as a man he was taught that his violent behavior in reprimanding an adult woman in public in that way was normal. As somebody who grew up in a more traditional culture where men and women really do have different standards in behavior (though those obviously get blurred with immigration and just people taking power where they can find it), I understand where that entitlement comes from.

[atuomala]

Posted: 6/14/18 at 7:01pm

Why is Hedwig singing about an angry inch???

[RaisedOnMusicals]

Posted: 6/14/18 at 10:04pm

The video is hard to watch, certainly. It’s almost incomprehensible to us today in our culture and times. But in trying to understand it in context, it’s important to take note of the woman’s response to being struck. To us, it’s mind boggling but to her it seemed like nothing. 

[sabrelady]

Posted: 6/14/18 at 10:14pm

Why does Fanny Brice sing about People?

[LLW2]

Posted: 6/14/18 at 10:14pm

RaisedOnMusicals said: "The video is hard to watch, certainly. It’s almost incomprehensible to us today in our culture and times. But in trying to understand it in context, it’s important to take note of the woman’s response to being struck. To us, it’s mind boggling but to her it seemed like nothing."

If you Google the news stories related to the incident, you'll see that she said she smiled in order to keep from crying and she sued him. Also he had a habit of punching men too.

[RaisedOnMusicals]

Posted: 6/14/18 at 10:38pm

LLW2 said: "RaisedOnMusicals said: "The video is hard to watch, certainly. It’s almost incomprehensible to us today in our culture and times. But in trying to understand it in context, it’s important to take note of the woman’s response to being struck. To us, it’s mind boggling but to her it seemed like nothing."

If you Google the news stories related to the incident, you'll see that she said she smiled in order to keep from crying and she sued him. Also he had a habit of punching men too."

Thanks for that additional information. 

[John Adams]

Posted: 6/15/18 at 12:06pm

But back to the original question...

See if this makes some sense for you:

[Dina's lines before the song starts] …Arab music, Egyptian music on the radio, and on TV, Egyptian movie.
Every Friday afternoon there is mysterious people I would never meet […in this dull and barren, boring, bull**** town of Bet Hatikva. Exactly like now - with the unexpected and accidental arrival of you and your band], but who came to me through the speakers [of our radio], through the [TV] screen…

Umm Kulthum and Omar Sharif
Came floating on the [quote/unquote] jasmine wind [of our radio and TV]
From the west, from the south
[In the mundane existence of our life in Bet Hatikva, they were like] Honey in my ears [and]
Spice in my mouth.
[He was] Dark and thrilling,
[She,] Strange and sweet
[She was like] Cleopatra and [he] the handsome thief
And they floated in on a [quote, unquote] jasmine wind [which were really the speakers and the TV screen in our home]
Umm Kulthum and Omar Sharif
And they floated in on a jasmine wind
Umm Kulthum and Omar Sharif [Oh, sorry… I got so caught up in my reverie that I repeated myself…]

Friday evening, Omar Sharif,
In black and white [‘cause we didn’t have color TV in our forsaken town] and blurry through [our] tears.
My mother and I would sit there in a trance
He was cool to the marrow, the pharaoh of romance

[And then, on] Sunday morning,
Umm Kulthum […]
Her voice would fill our living room.
The [quote/unquote] ship from Egypt always came
Sailing in on [our] radio['s] waves

And the jasmine wind, deep perfume
Umm Kulthum [...Dang! Almost did it again!]

[OK… this is gonna sound odd, and it didn’t really happen, but I guess my mother and I let our imaginations run wild, and remove us from our currently bland surroundings,] And the living room becomes a garden,
And the TV set becomes a fountain,
And the music flows in the garden
And [unlike the reality of our existence] everything grows

Umm Kulthum and Omar Sharif
Came floating on a lemon leaf
Flying in on a jasmine wind
Umm Kulthum and Omar Sharif
And [my mother and I have some of the most precious and cherished moments together as] we dance with them on a [quote/unquote] jasmine scented wind,
[And all because of the performances of] Umm Kulthum and Omar Sharif [that we watched on TV, and listened to on the radio].

Updated On: 6/15/18 at 12:06 PM

[Someone in a Tree2]

Posted: 6/15/18 at 12:52pm

^I understand why you've spelled this out, (it's what the OP requested), but please, I beg you, don't do this to any other songs we value-- reading this is like having a good joke explained to you in a way that kills the thing outright.

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 6/15/18 at 2:36pm

Hal Prince is a big picture director. He wants every song to fit into his overall concept of the show. He apparently dropped out of Hello Dolly! because he insisted that the title number be cut.

With that being said I wish he had been brought it in to direct Carousel. I;m sure he would have given the show more vision than Jack O'Brien.

[John Adams]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 2:52am

Someone in a Tree2 said: "^I understand why you've spelled this out, (it's what the OP requested), but please, I beg you, don't dothis to any other songs we value-- reading this is like having a good joke explained to you in a way that kills the thing outright."

Agreed! ...won't happen again 

[binau]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 4:19am

I wouldn't mind such an annotation for songs that don't make any sense to me, such as Purple Summer from Spring Awakening.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 5:32am

^Ha!

[uncageg]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 8:32am

John Adams said: "Someone in a Tree2 said: "^I understand why you've spelled this out, (it's what the OP requested), but please, I beg you, don't dothis to any other songs we value-- reading this is like having a good joke explained to you in a way that kills the thing outright."

Agreed!...won't happen again"

 

I enjoyed reading it.

[John Adams]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 12:00pm

uncageg said: "I enjoyed reading it."

Thank you! I take Someone in a Tree's point very well, though. I guess when you like something so much, you want others to enjoy it as much as yourself, so I gave in to a suggestion from the "Bad Idea Bears".