Outer Critic Circle Nominations ANNOUNCED:- Page 2

[PJ]

Posted: 4/23/06 at 11:09pm

Everyone's talking about JLY, Michael, Harry for Best Actor in a Musical. Same goes for Patti and LaChanze in Actress. No one outside of this board buys into the Mano mania. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve to be lauded with praise by fans, but he has no buzz. That is what I MEAN.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 4/23/06 at 11:11pm

No Maria Friedman?

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 4/23/06 at 11:13pm

Nothing for Wedding Singer? Not even Spanger?

[tmz814]

Posted: 4/23/06 at 11:15pm

I can't believe Mano wasn't nominated. I am in complete shock!

[chernjam]

Posted: 4/23/06 at 11:17pm

And ALW definitely deserved to be nominated for Best Score...

But happy WIW got 5 noms...

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 4/23/06 at 11:22pm

With regards to Manoel, whatever you're intimating about the nature his fan following, if anything at all, if not on a theatre message board and in the reviews, where are you expecting to hear buzz about him? I can't say I've heard *all* that many people gushing about him at the show, but I think that's because the focus is (obviously) on Patti and Michael.

Regardless of where Mano's buzz is or isn't, and regardless of the fact that yes, I like the guy and yes, I'm a fan, looking as objectively as possible at his performance -- how beautifully sung, nuanced, calculated and intelligent it is -- I am truly baffled as to why this isn't being seen, OTHER than that it might be because Sweeney is being seen as too much of an ensemble-driven piece for it to get much acting consideration outside of Patti and Michael. And even there, I contest that it's wrong, because in Doyle's production, Sweeney Todd is Toby's story.

[PJ]

Posted: 4/23/06 at 11:24pm

Believe it or not, there have been people who've seen the production that do not post on this board, nor are they fans. It's called the general theatre going public.
Updated On: 4/23/06 at 11:24 PM

[Sumofallthings]

Posted: 4/23/06 at 11:27pm

I was never under the impression that Sweeney Todd attracted the General Theatregoing Public all that consistently.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 4/23/06 at 11:27pm

There is really no need to be snarky.

And obviously I'm not blind to that -- if you read the rest of my post, I spoke of them -- but does the general public make awards decisions? They're made by people who are educated on and involved in the business, which by definition, the "general public" is not. So really, it doesn't matter in this case what everybody else is seeing. I'm talking *strictly* the powers that be with these nominations.

Updated On: 4/23/06 at 11:27 PM

[PJ]

Posted: 4/23/06 at 11:31pm

I may be coming off as snarky, but I'm being honest. Mano isn't as adored as many originally thought. I actually enjoyed his performance to a certain extent, but does it deserve a Tony? I don't know. Evidently I am not allowed to disagee.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 4/23/06 at 11:38pm

Seriously, I'm really tired of people giving out this oh-so vulnerable "I guess I'm not allowed to disagree!" You're allowed to disagree, but when you do so, you run the risk of people disagreeing with you. That's what opinions are all about, and aren't people always going on around here about how it's about expression of opinion? Come on. Nobody's knocking you for disagreeing, so you really don't need to self-victimize because of a difference in opinion. You say what you think, and a fan says what she thinks.

Honesty does not always dictate tone. A lot of the things you said have nothing to do with being honest or dishonest, they're just blatantly nasty. I really don't want to turn this into a personal argument, because it's just not necessary, but neither were some of your comments, you know?

Back to the topic at hand, I really don't know what you're referring to; I certainly see very little obvious *dislike* for Mano's performance, even if people aren't talking about him as much as they're talking about Patti and Michael. There's a difference between him getting negative buzz and getting little buzz, perhaps very simply due to being overshadowed.

Updated On: 4/23/06 at 11:38 PM

[blaxx]

Posted: 4/23/06 at 11:40pm

How does this reflect on Tony nominations? Are they what the Golden Globes are to the Oscars?

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 4/23/06 at 11:43pm

A lot of people seem to think that the Drama Desks are to the Tonys are the Golden Globes are to the Oscars, if you can make the analogy at all.

[PJ]

Posted: 4/23/06 at 11:47pm

When you disagree on this board, you are branded "wrong." And because it's not a face-to-face conversation, it's almost impossible to reach a conclusion with each party being satisfied.

From the beginning, my point was that Mano doesn't have Tony buzz. Like many have said, he's in a strong ensemble cast with two outstanding leads. He's bound to be forgotten. Someone saying that this wasn't that surprising is okay. Message board love does not a Tony nomination make. I'm just saying.

[mikem]

Posted: 4/23/06 at 11:54pm

Some other surprising omissions/inclusions in addition to Mano:
No Tyne Daly
No Jayne Houdyshell or Judy Kaye(although they might not have been eligible)
No Wedding Singer anywhere
Woman in White for sets and Best Musical are surprises to me -- the general good showing for Woman in White is a surprise
Hugh Panaro is a surprise too

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 4/23/06 at 11:56pm

I never said you were wrong,PJ. I said I don't agree with your assessment of the buzz surrounding Manoel, and the importance of the places from which it does or does not come. Don't put words in my mouth, on my fingers, whatever.

Yes, it is impossible to reach a conclusion where everyone is satisfied, but is that the purpose of sharing opinions? I'm not trying to convince you of my point of view, nor do I get the impression that you're trying to convince me of yours. Convincing someone to change his or her mind isn't the goal of every discussion, even when opposing viewpoints are involved.

I think you're making a hugely over-arching statement about the fact that he doesn't have Tony buzz, because there's a lot that goes on with regards to the awards and the voting tendencies and who thinks what that is not public. I also don't know where you're getting this with regards to what of it *is* public, given how many of the reviews singled out and lauded his performance; things like that a Tony nomination make. I'm not at all saying that fans on the internet dictate that, but it's not the only thing at play.

You're arguing too many different things that don't make sense. First of all, to say that he's overshadowed by Patti and Michael is legit, when you're looking at the show as a whole, but as far as the awards are concerned, that's fairly moot, because they're not his competition; to some degree, he's going to be looked at separately, and that degree is concerning the awards and nominations. To argue that the leads he's working with are the reasoning behind the snub simply makes very little sense; he's competing with other actors in his category, not them. And I disagree with the fact that having Patti and Michael on stage with him makes him look any less talented, or diminishes how wonderful his performance is.

Also, I completely and totally disagree that his part is an ensemble part, and I think to say that greatly misinterprets Doyle's telling of the story.

Updated On: 4/24/06 at 11:56 PM

[PJ]

Posted: 4/23/06 at 11:57pm

Oh for cryin' out loud.

Yay Mano!

[Fantabulous428]

Posted: 4/23/06 at 11:58pm

Going back to your post in which you compared JLY, Michael, Patti, Lachanze, and Manoel...

JLY and Lachanze are in more popular, tourist driven shows, and Patti and Michael are established theater actors. So it's definitely more likely that people "outside" the board, as you said, talk about THEM. They're just more known. But that hardly constitues grounds for saying Mano is undeserving of a nomination, or that he hasn't generated any "buzz". The guy has also had two sold out Ars Nova shows, and another recent sold out Joe's Pub show, so I wouldn't say there is no "buzz".

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 4/23/06 at 11:58pm

I give up. I am honestly not trying to back you into anything, but clearly you'd rather think that and make me look like the bully than have a discussion in which you're not consistently, without shadow of a doubt correct.

Updated On: 4/23/06 at 11:58 PM

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 4/24/06 at 12:06am

Yes, PJ, you're right. You are branded as wrong when you disagree.

But that's not what's going on here.

You make it sound like outside this little community Manoel isn't as well-received. Or popular. Well, truth be told, do you thinkg anyone knows who the hell Felicia P. Fields is outside the community?

BTW, where the hell is she and Elisabeth?

[jsrocks]

Posted: 4/24/06 at 12:14am

This is a shame!!

Rabbit Hole isn't nominated. No Tyne Daly or John Slattery
At least Cynthia was nominated! :)

And no Mano for Sweeney. ??

Updated On: 4/24/06 at 12:14 AM

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 4/24/06 at 12:20am

Mano was good, but I haven't seen the other shows, so its hard to tell if he deserves to win or not, ya know? unless you've seen every show that's nominated, then I think its unfair to really say "its unfair not nominate...blah" - I mean i'm pissed Wedding Singer didn't get any love - I don't think it will be shut out of the Tonys - but I'm not gonna whine about it, I mean I haven't seen over half the shows, so I can't compare.

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 4/24/06 at 12:34am

Elisabeth's on there BSo

Hmm, I kind of forgot about her, but Amy Spanger I think was the best thing about the Wedding Singer...but I can't decide whether I think she was snubbed or not. What do you guys think her chances are of a Tony nomination?

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 4/24/06 at 12:38am

I didn't just mean for this.

But I got so angry about Cyndi I blacked out!


<----TONY! TONY! TONY!

[nickatnight]

Posted: 4/24/06 at 12:39am

i was kinda hopin' those off-stage singers in 'jersey boys' would get a nom.

they are workin' hard....