#26
Posted: 11/15/08 at 12:49am
"I wonder if the new book made the show better or worse."
No need to wonder...the answer is worse.
No need to wonder...the answer is worse.
PAL JOEY -- First Preview Thoughts — Page 2
#27
Posted: 11/15/08 at 1:24am
Thanks again for my ticket, Testing, and I agree with everything you said!! I don't know if Hoff was just having a problem with his voice tonight or what, but he could not hit the right notes and just sounded awful! His voice sounded exactly like some crooner whose name was on the tip of my tongue all night but for the life of me could not remember. I liked how Channing acted the character, but her singing voice left much to be desired! I'm not really a fan of the whole talk-singing thing. Plimpton was the best thing about the show, her Act Two number was the highlight of the show.
Three people in the rows in front of me all walked out during intermission. I found the first act to be dull dull dull. Awesome costumes and I loved the dancing, but there was nothing else going on onstage! The second act was more engaging (as is normally the case) but aside from the one scene I already mentioned was nothing to write home about. I'm glad I only paid $10!
Three people in the rows in front of me all walked out during intermission. I found the first act to be dull dull dull. Awesome costumes and I loved the dancing, but there was nothing else going on onstage! The second act was more engaging (as is normally the case) but aside from the one scene I already mentioned was nothing to write home about. I'm glad I only paid $10!
"It's Phantom meets Hamlet... Phamlet!"
#28
Posted: 11/15/08 at 1:27am
Guess I need to figure the Hiptix out haha.
#29
Posted: 11/15/08 at 1:37am
I'm just going to echo everything that everyone has already said... Hoff was not good, Channing was brilliant when she wasn't singing, and Plimpton is absolute perfection.
The second act is much better than the first... and I realized that that's because it features the three women more prominently than Joey. The bottom line is that you shouldn't have a musical in which EVERYONE is more interesting than your lead character. I blame the material and Hoff for that. A more charismatic lead would be better suited to the role, but he's just not written to be anything more than a one-dimensional, selfish womanizer... and his epiphany that he needs to change is literally the last moment of the show. Terrible choice.
I will add that Graciela Daniele's choreography was very good, even though some of the ensemble women clearly needed more rehearsal time.
I'm glad I got $10 tickets for this one... it's not worth much more. The couple sitting in front of me actually left at intermission, and those sitting around me were using words like "horrible" and "deathly boring" to describe the show. Yikes!
The second act is much better than the first... and I realized that that's because it features the three women more prominently than Joey. The bottom line is that you shouldn't have a musical in which EVERYONE is more interesting than your lead character. I blame the material and Hoff for that. A more charismatic lead would be better suited to the role, but he's just not written to be anything more than a one-dimensional, selfish womanizer... and his epiphany that he needs to change is literally the last moment of the show. Terrible choice.
I will add that Graciela Daniele's choreography was very good, even though some of the ensemble women clearly needed more rehearsal time.
I'm glad I got $10 tickets for this one... it's not worth much more. The couple sitting in front of me actually left at intermission, and those sitting around me were using words like "horrible" and "deathly boring" to describe the show. Yikes!
#30
Posted: 11/15/08 at 2:29am
Sounds like they made a big mistake with Hoff.
I agree that they should have cast against type. Get someone totally, sincerely, wonderfully charming (Yazbek is a good choice and so are others). The "slick, smooth, crooning, jerk" is found in Joey's actions, not in his demeanor or outward appearance.
Think about Gene Kelly and his sweet voice and million-dollar Apple Pie smile. And matinee idol looks. Very wholesome. He doesn't look like a gangster. He looks like the captain of the football team or the class president in a tux.
I always thought Hoff looked like he should be in the next Scorcese movie, blowing up somebody's car. (He'd be great, too!)
I'm also surprised that Hoff can't sing! Were those guys all lip-syncing in "Jersey Boys?" I know they had "help" off-stage, but did they have THAT much help?! Maybe he's only good with group harmonies, and not a lead vocalist.
But you'd think they would test him out first, before putting millions of dollars into a show that he can't do and isn't right for.
Ouch.
I'm glad about Plimpton. I've always liked her too.
I wonder what they'll do? Back in the "good old days" they would replace the lead.
Nobody does that today. They keep "thinking happy thoughts" and go right into a mediocre run (if they're lucky) or a fast close.
I agree that they should have cast against type. Get someone totally, sincerely, wonderfully charming (Yazbek is a good choice and so are others). The "slick, smooth, crooning, jerk" is found in Joey's actions, not in his demeanor or outward appearance.
Think about Gene Kelly and his sweet voice and million-dollar Apple Pie smile. And matinee idol looks. Very wholesome. He doesn't look like a gangster. He looks like the captain of the football team or the class president in a tux.
I always thought Hoff looked like he should be in the next Scorcese movie, blowing up somebody's car. (He'd be great, too!)
I'm also surprised that Hoff can't sing! Were those guys all lip-syncing in "Jersey Boys?" I know they had "help" off-stage, but did they have THAT much help?! Maybe he's only good with group harmonies, and not a lead vocalist.
But you'd think they would test him out first, before putting millions of dollars into a show that he can't do and isn't right for.
Ouch.
I'm glad about Plimpton. I've always liked her too.
I wonder what they'll do? Back in the "good old days" they would replace the lead.
Nobody does that today. They keep "thinking happy thoughts" and go right into a mediocre run (if they're lucky) or a fast close.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#31
Posted: 11/15/08 at 3:05am
I can't imagine them replacing him when they have made such a big deal about him in the show. Also, they already did at least one or two workshops with him, didn't they realize he was just not right for the role?
It sucks to have PAL JOEY back on Broadway with a dull Joey.
I honestly wasn't too excited about Stockard Channing in this show (the role should have gone to Donna Murphy or even the long-rumored Bernadette Peters), and it's sad to see that she isn't doing that great of a job as Vera.
I hope there is a recording so I can hear Martha Plimptom wow me with her rendition of "Zip," I'm sure it's marvelous.
It sucks to have PAL JOEY back on Broadway with a dull Joey.
I honestly wasn't too excited about Stockard Channing in this show (the role should have gone to Donna Murphy or even the long-rumored Bernadette Peters), and it's sad to see that she isn't doing that great of a job as Vera.
I hope there is a recording so I can hear Martha Plimptom wow me with her rendition of "Zip," I'm sure it's marvelous.
"Some people can thrive and bloom living life in a living room, that's perfect for some people of one hundred and five. But I at least gotta try, when I think of all the sights that I gotta see, all the places I gotta play, all the things that I gotta be at"
#32
Posted: 11/15/08 at 3:13am
Thanks for all the interesting reviews, everyone. I'm actually surprised to read the negative reviews on Christian Hoff. I thought he was absolutely stunning in Jersey Boys and had (no, have!) high hopes of him as Joey...
Don't mean to threadjack but... best12bars, what do you mean exactly by "offstage help" in Jersey Boys?
Don't mean to threadjack but... best12bars, what do you mean exactly by "offstage help" in Jersey Boys?
#33
Posted: 11/15/08 at 3:14am
What's the approx. running time thus far?
I'm sorry to hear such negative buzz from the the first preview, but hey, they have a month to tweak as they see fit. I'm hoping it all comes together in the end. I'm kinda surprised with the negativity towards Hoff's 'Joey' -- Knowing his association with this mounting, I would've expected his work to be top-notch. I guess I'll have to wait and see for myself.
I'm sorry to hear such negative buzz from the the first preview, but hey, they have a month to tweak as they see fit. I'm hoping it all comes together in the end. I'm kinda surprised with the negativity towards Hoff's 'Joey' -- Knowing his association with this mounting, I would've expected his work to be top-notch. I guess I'll have to wait and see for myself.
#34
Posted: 11/15/08 at 3:47am
What's the approx. running time thus far?
The show ended at exactly 10:30pm on the dot. (I had to run out immediately to collect for BCEFA at another theatre at 10:35.)
The show ended at exactly 10:30pm on the dot. (I had to run out immediately to collect for BCEFA at another theatre at 10:35.)
"It's Phantom meets Hamlet... Phamlet!"
#35
Posted: 11/15/08 at 3:55am
Oh Nooo! I don't want to believe this. Hoff is one of my favorite male Broadway actors. I loved him in Jersey Boys. I talked with him at stage door briefly and he was so charming! I thought he'd be perfect for Joey.
I'll decide for myself soon enough. There's a rave for the production over at ATC, which makes me hopeful. It's just the first preview after all, and plenty of room for improvement.
I'll decide for myself soon enough. There's a rave for the production over at ATC, which makes me hopeful. It's just the first preview after all, and plenty of room for improvement.
#36
Posted: 11/15/08 at 6:23am
Someone on the ATC board noted that this was the first time they had run through the show in its entirety! Hard to believe but if it's true some slack must be cut.
Re Hoff, I obviously haven't seen him, but Joey is a very difficult character to make work. Maybe he needs to grow into the part.
Re Hoff, I obviously haven't seen him, but Joey is a very difficult character to make work. Maybe he needs to grow into the part.
Faced with these Loreleis, what man can moralize!
#37
Posted: 11/15/08 at 7:04am
It's been hard to believe how often this is on TDF.
Formerly SirNotAppearing - Joined 3/08
#38
Posted: 11/15/08 at 7:15am
I did cut them some slack for it being a first preview and alleged first run through. I've seen other shows in similar situations (including Shrek last weekend from what I heard from actors at the stage door ~ yes, they had the Seattle run, but there had been changes and this was a whole new theater and set up ~ and given that the dumpster with all kinds of stuff that looked like set set-up trash wsa still right outside the stage door I'm inclined to believe them), and they haven't been as deradfully dull as this.
testing and his friend and I were talking before the show (wat may have been there at this point) about how Roundabout almost always cancels the first preview but didn't this time. If the first run through thing was the ONLY problem with the show, perhaps they should have.
testing and his friend and I were talking before the show (wat may have been there at this point) about how Roundabout almost always cancels the first preview but didn't this time. If the first run through thing was the ONLY problem with the show, perhaps they should have.
Experience live theater. Experience paintings. Experience books. Live, look and listen like artists! ~ imaginethis
LIVE THAT LESSON!!!!!!
LIVE THAT LESSON!!!!!!
#39
Posted: 11/15/08 at 7:28am
Obviously, I haven't seen it yet but have tickets for Thanksgiving weekend. But what I'm hearing about Hoff so far only confirms my earlier thoughts. Joey MUST be played by a great dancer. And he MUST be able to put over a song. Maybe not a great singer, but one whose charm can come through. Even though Joey is a despicable character, he's got to have SOMETHING to make the women drop dead over him. In I Could Write a Book, he's trying to seduce the only morally upright character in the show and must singly sweetly and suavely, which I gather Hoff isn't doing.
BroadwayEd
#40
Posted: 11/15/08 at 8:08am
How was ZIP? Which set of lyrics did they use? Any updating?
#41
Posted: 11/15/08 at 8:55am
I've only seen Zip on youtube which was the film version and I'm assuming cleaned up.
None of the references seemed updated, but I could be wrong. It was based around interviewing Gypsy Rose Lee and cited people from that era.
None of the references seemed updated, but I could be wrong. It was based around interviewing Gypsy Rose Lee and cited people from that era.
#42
Posted: 11/15/08 at 9:06am
i think this goes to show that winning a tony doesn't mean you are talented.
#43
Posted: 11/15/08 at 9:15am
<< I'm sorry to hear such negative buzz from the the first preview, but hey, they have a month to tweak as they see fit. I'm hoping it all comes together in the end. I'm kinda surprised with the negativity towards Hoff's 'Joey' -- Knowing his association with this mounting, I would've expected his work to be top-notch. I guess I'll have to wait and see for myself>>
I dont really think the problems with this show can be fixed with time. I always give the benefit of the doubt, given that its the 1st preview, but the problem here is Hoff, and I dont think he can get much better. He is just not right for the role.
As far as "Zip" (because a few people asked)--- It was very good. Plimpton IS the saving grace of the show.
I dont really think the problems with this show can be fixed with time. I always give the benefit of the doubt, given that its the 1st preview, but the problem here is Hoff, and I dont think he can get much better. He is just not right for the role.
As far as "Zip" (because a few people asked)--- It was very good. Plimpton IS the saving grace of the show.
#44
Posted: 11/15/08 at 9:41am
I hope they tweak it, too. I think things will get better, and while I didn't particularly enjoy myself, I am (or might be) willing to give it another shot later. That's what I'm telling myself. I was largely unenthused, though. I am not familiar with the material, so I cannot comment on any changes, Yankeefan, but the entire book seemed so dated. Granted, I was born in the mid-'80s, but there were so many things that just did not land. That will come with time, hopefully. Or maybe it's just my taste. I thought Hoff wasn't bad with the dancing; he did a lot of tapping without tap shoes. I don't even remember, honestly. There were times when I zoned out. I saw that Matthew Risch is listed as the understudy for Hoff; He's a great dancer and I'd love to see him give the role a whirl.
I really did enjoy Channing on the whole. Her acting choices were good, and hopefully those will continue to inform her singing. I didn't know about those rumors; I'd imagine either Murphy or Peters would have been fantastic in the role.
More praise for "Zip" coming from here. :o)
I really did enjoy Channing on the whole. Her acting choices were good, and hopefully those will continue to inform her singing. I didn't know about those rumors; I'd imagine either Murphy or Peters would have been fantastic in the role.
More praise for "Zip" coming from here. :o)
"I'll cut you, Tracee Beazer!!!!
...Just kidding. I'd never cut anyone." -Tina Maddigan, 9/30/06, WS stage door
Avatar: JULIE "EFFING" WHITE, 2007 TONY WINNER. Thank God. I'm thinking about legally changing my name to Lizzie Curry...
Avatar: JULIE "EFFING" WHITE, 2007 TONY WINNER. Thank God. I'm thinking about legally changing my name to Lizzie Curry...
#45
Posted: 11/15/08 at 9:44am
"Zip" was definitely the high point of the show.
Experience live theater. Experience paintings. Experience books. Live, look and listen like artists! ~ imaginethis
LIVE THAT LESSON!!!!!!
LIVE THAT LESSON!!!!!!
#46
Posted: 11/15/08 at 10:01am
I certainly enjoyed Zip, but I have to say that I enjoyed Plimpton more in her first 2 numbers and the act 2 opener more. When she screamed "I said ORANGE!" I died.
(Jordan, I didn't know you were there! Guess I should have paid attention to the "Who's Going" threads but I only got my tickets yesterday afternoon :])
(Jordan, I didn't know you were there! Guess I should have paid attention to the "Who's Going" threads but I only got my tickets yesterday afternoon :])
#47
Posted: 11/15/08 at 10:04am
Oh, it's ok logan. :) I missed the who's going threads myself. School has been crazy with paperwork, so I've had to avoid the boards by and large until that was done. (I was right next to the tech area in the rear mezz...which was not as distracting as I was afraid it might have been.)
And yeah...that line about orange was hysterical. :)
And yeah...that line about orange was hysterical. :)
Experience live theater. Experience paintings. Experience books. Live, look and listen like artists! ~ imaginethis
LIVE THAT LESSON!!!!!!
LIVE THAT LESSON!!!!!!
#48
Posted: 11/15/08 at 10:08am
Matthew Risch would definitely be a better Joey...and yes, "Zip" was certainly the highlight of the show. I adore Martha Plimpton...too bad she's stuck in this disaster. I hope she doesn't get panned (like the rest of the production probably will).
#49
Posted: 11/15/08 at 11:05am
The reason Joey MUST be cast with a world-class dancer is that the character, as written, has never been appealing. That was the POINT of the original O'Hara short stories. Gene Kelly's dancing, apparently, was so electrifying that the audience loved Joey no matter what. Hoff is a good actor, but NOT a world-class song-and-dance man. He is miscast.
Oh well, the sets look cool.
Oh well, the sets look cool.
#50
Posted: 11/15/08 at 11:09am
Looks like the the two stars of the show are WILLIAM IVEY LONG and Martha Plimpton.
Are all the costumes as good as William Ivey's chorus-girl costumes?
Are all the costumes as good as William Ivey's chorus-girl costumes?
Updated On: 11/15/08 at 11:09 AM
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