Paradise Square - COVID- Page 2

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 4/18/22 at 9:25am

A cast album preserves the work of the authors and actors and will help keep the show in our collective memory. Shows without cast albums can fade into obscurity. This cast album might eventually lead to a new production, not associated with Garth Drabinksy. 

I understand that you've joined exclusively to drag this show and its producer, but recording a cast album is very much in the best interest of the show, the authors, and the actors.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 4/18/22 at 11:25am

KJisgroovy said: "A cast album preserves the work of the authors and actors and will help keep the show in our collective memory. Shows without cast albums can fade into obscurity. This cast album might eventually lead to a new production, not associated with Garth Drabinksy.

I understand that you've joined exclusively to drag this show and its producer, but recording a cast album is very much in the best interest of the show, the authors, and the actors."

Here is the logical disconnect in what you are saying (none of which is untrue per se): what is "very much in the best interest of the show, the authors, and the actors" [and some would add audiences] is not in the best interest of the production. Garth (with or without the fiction of "hands-off-of-the-finances" has a fiduciary obligation here. (And yes, I acknowledge that obligation fades by comparison to the obligation not to defraud.)

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 4/18/22 at 12:14pm

carolynbrooks said: "It is so bizarre that they would invest in cast album over marketing dollars to save the show. This is all one producer's ego. shame ."

Do you understand how cast album financing works? Usually it's either (a) built into the capitalization for the show, or (b) money raised separately, sometimes with funds invested by a licensing house like Concord or MTI.

It is close to impossible for any modern show to exist in subsidiary life without a cast album. It's probably THE most important tool for a show's post-Broadway life. It's a documentary of its history. (And a way for the actors to earn an extra week's paycheck.)

[DrMonicaDeMoneco]

Posted: 4/18/22 at 12:18pm

Apparently they’ve hired 3 temporary swing actors/actresses because of Covid. 
I’d ask for my weekly paycheck up front!

[HogansHero]

Posted: 4/18/22 at 12:33pm

@Ermengarde ordinarily what you say is true but this show is an exception. It's been bleeding since day 1. Most of the reviews are meh with quite a few go to sees for JK. The WOM is middling. It is constructed in a way that robust regional productions are unlikely, especially considering both size and performance demands. And the cast album is oly likely to help JK's rep since the score itself is large meh at best. So the question becomes: who is financing this and why? (I can guarantee it is not the licensing houses and also that it is not in the capitalization that is long gone.) All roads do indeed lead to Garth's ego.

@Monica, actors cannot ask to be paid upfront but their pay is secured by the bond. AEA would not let this out of the gate without it. Those new actors may be worried about longevity but are not worried about being paid.

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 4/18/22 at 1:44pm

"All roads do indeed lead to Garth's ego."

Your justification for your argument certainly makes sense but it doesn't resonate with me. As someone who is just an audience member, I have returned to flops that have received cast recordings again and again. I've cherished the work of the songwriters of the shows and the performances preserved, most especially in shows that will rarely be produced again. I've never once thought of the person who produced those shows. 

Regardless, a show without a cast album is dead. I don't disagree that this will be a hard show to mount regionally but without a cast album the odds are basically zero.

Making a cast album may well be an act of ego for the producer but I think the ultimate effect is securing a legacy for the show. 

 

Updated On: 4/18/22 at 01:44 PM

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 4/18/22 at 2:11pm

Hogan, to give Garth & co. a teeny TINY benefit of the doubt... this is a very weird season, and there's a world in which it gets a Best Musical nomination and/or a Score nomination (in addition to Actress) because the competition is poor:

– Best Musical you have 2 locks (Six, Strange Loop), two likely noms (MJ, Girl/North), and then a whole bunch vying for a 5th slot if voting is close. This probably has a better chance at a nom than Doubtfire, Flying Over Sunset, Diana, or Mr. Saturday Night, despite its finances and lead producer.

– Best Score you only have Strange Loop, Six, Paradise, Diana, Flying Over Sunset (a score with one good song), Mr. Saturday Night (a score with 0 good songs), Mrs. Doubtfire (I think there was a score?), and some plays. I would not be surprised if this gets nominated.

So yes that's partially an ego thing. But if it does end up with a weird, BRIGHT STAR-level Best Musical nom, then they're caught in a bad place without any album when noms could possibly lead to additional regional licenses and maybe even a non-eq tour.

Financially, it's probably best for this show NOT to get a Best Musical nom: it won't move the needle substantially, and I personally doubt that the album and show will ever come close to recouping. But there are worse shows than this that get produced with some regularity (and, unlikely, but maybe it even gets a Big Fish-style regional theatre trim).

Updated On: 4/18/22 at 02:11 PM

[carolynbrooks]

Posted: 4/18/22 at 2:45pm

I think that @ErmengardeStopSniveling has been so well informed and articulate on this thread. Regardless of JK's stellar performance ( I have seen her twice , thanks to cast comps), i would venture to guess that this show will never be remounted or produced again. Unlike Ragtime that had a better score and book, this show is not universally appealing or accessible.               

[HogansHero]

Posted: 4/18/22 at 5:07pm

@KJisgroovy I completely understand your perspective. I'm looking at it from the financial perspective, of someone who spends other people's money with no prospect of recouping the cost. 

@Ermengarde all well and good but (a) I don't think it has a snowball's chance in hell of winning best musical and (b) that's the only award that could be worthwhile financially. Nominations for best musical and even awards for anything else don't help enough to turn this around. I hear what you are saying but I stand by the position that it's throwing good money after bad. 

We shall see, of course. 

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 4/18/22 at 6:25pm

There's no amount of money they could spend on marketing to get the show to recoup. Let them make a cast album. 

[Dollypop]

Posted: 4/18/22 at 7:00pm

@Monica, actors cannot ask to be paid upfront but their pay is secured by the bond. AEA would not let this out of the gate without it. Those new actors may be worried about longevity but are not worried about being paid.

 

Not true!!!! The recent production of THE FANTASTICKS was known for paying the cast with rubber checks. Most of the cast and crew insisted on getting paid in cash as a result.

[DrMonicaDeMoneco]

Posted: 4/18/22 at 8:15pm

I should have said that I was joking around when I said the actors should ask for payment up front. 
Garth is notorious for not paying people.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 4/18/22 at 8:25pm

Dollypop said: "Not true!!!! The recent production of THE FANTASTICKS was known for paying the cast with rubber checks. Most of the cast and crew insisted on getting paid in cash as a result."

I assume that was a non-union production. We are talking about shows within AEA jurisdiction. And yes this is why there are unions. 

[dan94]

Posted: 4/18/22 at 11:26pm

People are talking like this show will never be produced after it closes on Broadway. I agree it will not have a heavy shelf life post-Broadway. It is far from a perfect show. That being said, no one has mentioned that this actually seems to be a perfect show for college BFA MT programs to produce. There are a lot of performance opportunities for many types of students in this show. The size of the cast would be a feature, not an impediment. And there are a lot of skills students would be learning in class and could further hone in performance imbedded within the show. It also would not be out of bounds financially on a typical college MT show budget.

The royalties will never come close to recouping the initial investment. But the show could have a feasible afterlife which would not happen without the cast album. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 4/19/22 at 12:02am

dan94 said: "The royalties will never come close to recouping the initial investment. But the show could have a feasible afterlife which would not happen without the cast album."

I'll grant you everything you say in your top paragraph but this last is where folks fall off the cliff. If it were your money, and I told you that you could keep a half mil in your pocket or you could spend it on a cast recording so there would be college productions that wouldn't happen otherwise, but you are not going to see any significant return on that investment, would you still blow the $500k? 

It's easy to spend OPM. Garth has made a nice living for himself doing that (and defrauding many of them to boot). But when it is your own money, sometimes the calculus changes. I still think my description (good $ following bad) is the apt one.

[carolynbrooks]

Posted: 4/19/22 at 8:34am

"Garth has made a nice living". No truer words, as the show experiences zero gravity grosses weekly, I would venture to guess that he is the only one , maybe Ledonne , who has taken exorbitant weekly salaries aside from his luxury hotel suite. Yes, so let's have a cast album so he can take additional producer fees. Alvin Bragg do you have your ticket yet?                

[Dollypop]

Posted: 4/19/22 at 8:44am

HogansHero said: "Dollypop said: "Not true!!!! The recent production of THE FANTASTICKS was known for paying the cast with rubber checks. Most of the cast and crew insisted on getting paid in cash as a result."

I assume that was a non-union production. We are talking about shows within AEA jurisdiction. And yes this is why there are unions."

 

THE FANTASTICKS most definitely WAS an EQUITY production!

 

[chewy5000]

Posted: 4/19/22 at 9:19am

HogansHero said:
"I'll grant you everything you say in your top paragraph but this last is where folks fall off the cliff. If it were your money, and I told you that you could keep a half mil in your pocket or you could spend it on a cast recording so there would be college productions that wouldn't happen otherwise, but you are not going to see any significant return on that investment, would you still blow the $500k?"

 

If you were an investor, wouldn't you want something to remember it by?

 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 4/19/22 at 10:40am

chewy5000 said: "If you were an investor, wouldn't you want something to remember it by?"

You can buy the entire merch counter and still have $499,000 to spare lol

[HogansHero]

Posted: 4/19/22 at 10:43am

Dollypop said: "THE FANTASTICKS most definitely WAS an EQUITY production!"

If that's true then your original post is false. 

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 4/19/22 at 5:35pm

HogansHero said: "Dollypop said: "THE FANTASTICKS most definitely WAS an EQUITY production!"

If that's true then your original post is false."

I wouldn't say it's 100% false. I have had a paycheck bounce while under an Equity contract, as the settlement check from the venue to the general managers bounced which caused a domino effect. However, Equity stepped in quickly and we were issued new checks that also covered any fees we incurred because of the bad paycheck. 

[Lumiere2]

Posted: 4/19/22 at 10:55pm

Was anyone at tonight's (Tues 19th) performance now that they've come back from their two week COVID shutdown? How many people were there?

[EDSOSLO858]

Posted: 4/19/22 at 11:04pm

Lumiere2 said: "Was anyone at tonight's (Tues 19th) performance now that they've come back from their two week COVID shutdown? How many people were there?"

I wasn’t, but I heard an understudy was on for Frederic Tiggens, and three other swings were on. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 4/19/22 at 11:39pm

AEA AGMA SM said: "I wouldn't say it's 100% false. I have had a paycheck bounce while under an Equity contract, as the settlement check from the venue to the general managers bounced which caused a domino effect. However, Equity stepped in quickly and we were issued new checks that also covered any fees we incurred because of the bad paycheck."

A bounced check, yes, but actors demanding advanced pay, no. There have been plenty of bounced checks, but AEA members know the union has them covered by the bond. It's rare for the bond to be invaded, but it happens. Usually when a show is closing because the the bond is paid out, the show is gonna be closed anyway.

[Aroberts3]

Posted: 4/20/22 at 6:33am

I was at the show last night. Josh Davis was on for Tiggens along with a couple swings. Joaquina made a speech after curtain call thanking the swings/understudies and congratulating Josh for his Broadway debut.   Orchestra was somewhat full.