RAGTIME Reviews- Page 4

[bjh2114]

Posted: 11/15/09 at 10:53pm

Wow, before this production I had no idea how many people loathed the Ragtime score.

Exactly. People loathe it now because Brantley didn't love it the first time around. That's pretty much the only reason.

EDIT: When I say "people", I mean the critics. I am sure plenty of audience members didn't like the score. Updated On: 11/15/09 at 10:53 PM

[Pgenre]

Posted: 11/15/09 at 11:00pm

Well, from a pure pastiche point of view, LB incorporates many more styles and utilizes them quite expertly to tell the story. "What You Want" is one of the best musical montage type scene since DREAMGIRLS and uses, what, four or five distinct musical styles quite expertly in the course of one number. RAGTIME fails to even juggle three distinct melodies OR styles simultaneously with any panache, even in the much discussed opening number. I think RAGTIME is a better whole than the sum of its parts, whereas LB's greatest asset was its score.

And of all the things to say in an argument about RAGTIME vs. LB, I think the same-ness of all the songs in RAGTIME and how they all say the same thing is even more evident than in LB. This sort of deductive ___ vs ___ argument could go on forever though, particularly on this board with these two shows.

I realize that by outing myself for the first time in 5 years as a huge fan and advocate of this score will strike some as odd, but there it is. I really enjoyed the score a lot and thought the show had some great moments where the staging and score came together wonderfully and reached a level of almost greatness. Sure, it's not the best score ever, but I'd take a million "Work It Out"s over having to endure "Gliding" or any of the white people (they are all nameless after all!) material in RAGTIME one more time.

Again, RAGTIME is a better show than LB, but I think LB has a better score and had moments that eclipsed anything in the admittedly very good original production of RAGTIME. RAGTIME was consistently good and never great, whereas LB had bad moments and very good moments.

P
Updated On: 11/15/09 at 11:00 PM

[MusicSnob1]

Posted: 11/15/09 at 11:31pm

HOW can you even compare the two?!?!

completely different styles of music. Both scores used in an entirely different way. Scores that are approached with vastly opposite purposes and goals. You can't just compare the two so simply.

It's a bit more complex than that, my friend.

[Pgenre]

Posted: 11/15/09 at 11:35pm

I just did.

Anything actually constructive to add or just the usual snide, condescending nonsense?

P

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 11/15/09 at 11:36pm

This is the review thread...this argument - fascinating as it is - belongs in its own thread.

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 11/15/09 at 11:45pm

When was the last time anyone stuck to the original topic in a BWW thread? Ha.

[Dolly_Levi]

Posted: 11/15/09 at 11:47pm

I thought this production was quite enjoyable, with the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.

That being said, I have a soft spot in my heart for these lead performers faced with the near impossible task of equalling performances by beloved performers like Mitchelll, Mazzie and McDonald.

[WishingOnlyWounds2]

Posted: 11/15/09 at 11:58pm

Am I the only one who feels that there were like no reviews for this show compared to previous ones?

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 11/16/09 at 12:09am

Brantley's review is mostly negitive and did not really rave about any of the performers, especially Coalhouse and Sarah.
So much for raves as predicted by most posters on BWW.

[Oldschool]

Posted: 11/16/09 at 12:13am

Brantley didn't so much review this production as use it as a fulcrum to bash the show generally. He doesn't like the show, so the production is incidental to his remarks.

[ljay889]

Posted: 11/16/09 at 12:14am

John Simon is all over the place. Gives it 3.5 stars. Then says it rates a B+. but he has several problems with the cast.



http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601088&sid=aZ.s370YA8zk

[Unknown User]

Posted: 11/16/09 at 12:19am

"Wow, before this production I had no idea how many people loathed the Ragtime score.

Exactly. People loathe it now because Brantley didn't love it the first time around. That's pretty much the only reason.

EDIT: When I say "people", I mean the critics. I am sure plenty of audience members didn't like the score."

Brantley was far from the only person when the show premiered to not be too keen on the score (or show). I was obsessed with Ragtime back then, and had seen it multiple times in Vancouver and remember being shocked and annoyed at the mixed and negative reviews it was getting. If anything the appreciation of the show and especially the score has gone up substantially in the past ten years.

Brantley's review annoys me (no big surprise). The original production was souless?? It feels to me like he liked the show more this time partly jsut cuz he's had time to sit with it without his anti Livent/Drabinsky agenda--and is trying to justify it.

To wit:"that featured planes, trains, a full-size Model T and fireworks (to accompany the expression of love)."

Ummmmm all I remember from that in the original production, was the Model T (and I mean no less a show than the divine original production of Night Music had TWO such cars...) Man he likes to exaggerate to make up a point.

[ljay889]

Posted: 11/16/09 at 12:19am

It looks like Finian's Rainbow is the best reviewed musical revival of the season so far. We still have 3 more to go. A Little Night Music is up next!

[adamgreer]

Posted: 11/16/09 at 12:21am

So much for raves as predicted by most posters on BWW.

Umm aside from Matthew Murray's completely insignificant pan and Brantley's mixed review, the reviews have been very, very positive, with many raves.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 11/16/09 at 12:23am

I think there are a lot of people (myself included) who like the RAGTIME score but find it does have flaws - particularly lyrically. There are also a fair number of people (myself included) who enjoyed the original production but felt it had just a little bit of a manufactured quality to it. Almost like it was a text book example of exactly 'how' you are supposed to, by the steps, write a musical. So everything was good but it didn't have a lot of the moments of real unexpected true brilliance than often emerge in other more flawed musicals. There was something just a little - phony about the original production - almost as if it were put together not for the love of the musical but to sell an enterprise. And indeed, there is some truth to that...

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 11/16/09 at 12:23am

They're going to have a hell of a time making it to the Spring.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 11/16/09 at 12:26am

I think FINIAN"S RAINBOW will have a harder time making it to the spring actually, even with those rave reviews.

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 11/16/09 at 12:28am

I completely agree, Michael Bennett.

DidHeLikeIt.com classifies the RAGTIME review as positive, not mixed. These reviews were hardly anywhere near bad...they were pretty solid with a bunch of certified raves.

[bjh2114]

Posted: 11/16/09 at 12:35am

I was obsessed with Ragtime back then, and had seen it multiple times in Vancouver and remember being shocked and annoyed at the mixed and negative reviews it was getting.

As I recall, the critics from the major publications in 1998 (other than Brantley for the Times) found issue with the book more than the score. McNally was criticized for over-simplifying, while Ahrens and Flaherty were praised for being the next Kander and Ebb in most of the major reviews.
Updated On: 11/16/09 at 12:35 AM

[Unknown User]

Posted: 11/16/09 at 12:36am

Michael Bennett, what lyrics do you object to? I do have think the complaint that the score sounds a bit like one too many anthems is justified, otherwise I really have no fault with it.

I admit Ragtime is a soft spot with me--it was the first (and so far only time) I got to see a major musical before it was even performed on the Tonys (thanks to the Vancouver production which was essentially the first American cast/LA cast--headlined by a brilliant LaChanze moved to Vancouver for 6 months) and so I followed it very closely.

I know people felt the musical was a bit too "by comittee". It's true that Drabinsky I think saw himself as a modern Ziegfeld--turned on by his experiences with the Show Baot revival (which was brilliant and, to be fair, was all at his instigation--it was his idea, he hired Prince, etc) he seemed to want to do his own epic musical and bought the rights to Ragtime. As most know, he auditioned ten different songwriters (or teams) hired McNally after their experiences together on Spider Woman, etc. For all the man's horrible faults, it was his doing, the whole team was hired by him, and this is probably why it might have a bit of that feeling.

That said, I did find the original production exquisite and even magical in many spots and I think it's gotten a bum rap (I think at the time it did as well due to many equating Livent with the Disney "take over of Broadway" bla bla blaaa). Of course Livent then disintegrated and their later shows Drabinsky instigated--aside from Fosse--all were less than successes (Parade, Seussical and years later Sweet Smell of Success)

Oh and I'm SOOO confused how this became a Legally Blonde vs Ragtime discussion...
Updated On: 11/16/09 at 12:36 AM

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 11/16/09 at 12:39am

Oh I agree. I think both are going to have a tough time. Even thought Finian's got raves and Ragtime got decent enough notices, neather has any name value (in title or star) to pull it through the Winter. And as great as Finian's is, I think La Cage will take Best Revival and get unqualified raves (we already know Brantley loves it).

[BrianS]

Posted: 11/16/09 at 12:40am

Just an FYI on leaked reviews... Brantley's review was not locked in a safe in the NYT building. Publishing outlets had the review and respect an industry embargo not to publish reviews early. Happens with films all the time. Companies that don't respect the embargo soon find access to future projects drying up. Someone at that website just made a stupid mistake. I'd be shocked if that site ever had a scoop again.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 11/16/09 at 12:43am

Reviews are like Playbills. They don't belong to anyone.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 11/16/09 at 12:45am

There are glitches with review embargos all the time. There have even been a few occasions when the New York Times posted their own reviews too early. It happens. And in this case it was just a few hours early.

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 11/16/09 at 12:51am

Maybe I'm just so "used to" Brantley that I am able to just weed out all of the self-conscious pretense in his reviews and see what he "enjoys" about the production (despite his struggle to "enjoy" nothing!) I don't perceive his response as negative at all. (Not that I agree with him on every point either. For example, I haven't seen the NYC production, but in DC, Quentin Earl Darrington was brilliant.)

I think BRANTLEY's review is more a critique of HIMSELF than of RAGTIME! He unapologetically hated the original production, but now he finds in it "glimmers of delicate beauty." So how can he "justify" that? By telling everyone that he was "right" about the original production and how it took 10 years and a devastated economy to bring out in this musical what was buried beneath the spectacle. Very clever, Mr. Brantley.

The bottom line is, he LIKED it. He really LIKED it.

And, I don't know, but I think RAGTIME will have a decent run. Word of mouth is really positive.