Rent's Legacy & Reputation Today- Page 3

[Soaring29]

Posted: 8/12/18 at 5:26pm

HogansHero said: "@soaring, I think you are assuming the opening song is not a prologue. I'd have to refresh my brain to know if that's valid. But in any event, I'm not really understanding the criticism you are looking for. I know this is not it, but we have to remember that the east village was rife with notions of both nihilism and anarchism, in contrast to "selling out" and I'm not sure how we can make moral judgments that are anything but subjective.

@bohodaysbook thanks for all of that. looking forward to catching up to the book."

 

 

If you're referring to my most recent message, I was merely expressing my frustration with several articles I have read recently that criticized the character's reluctance to pay rent(https://www.thebillfold.com/2015/12/rent-20-years-later-why-weve-come-to-hate-the-show-we-once-loved/, https://www.buzzfeed.com/andyneuenschwander/dear-characters-in-rent-you-guys-are-slightly-terrible-peopl?utm_term=.jraMmxYke#.mgr3jWl0k).  Can you clarify what you mean when you say I am assuming that the opening number is not a prologue? 

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 8/12/18 at 6:46pm

HogansHero said: "I'd rather not get into those other shows right now, but to some up, I think...

I don't think it is contrived or a trick, nor do I think it is inorganic at all. I think it is a choice (which does not mean you personally have to find it satisfying). A happier - I bristle at calling it "happy" - ending is not a bad thing, unless you are comparing it to the ending in the earlier works.And here again, I'm not saying that you personally have to like happy endings. And please don't take this as a dig, but I am just curious if you have any direct connection to the AIDS crisis as it played out in New York in this period."

I had a great math teacher who was suddenly dismissed and we all knew it was because he was gay. He later died of AIDS. I grew up in a very Republican town where they only implemented sex education after a huge fight from the parents. There was a lot of ignorance about AIDS and our high school principal expelled two kids from the prom for attempting to go as a same-sex couple. 

That's why I really hate the gauzy ending of Rent. As I said I like the musical overall. But the ending of Rent so goes against every memory I have of the AIDS crisis in the 80's and 90's. There were no happy endings. If you had AIDS you were vilified, ostracized, fired, shunned, abandoned by friends and family, and died alone. 

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 8/12/18 at 6:51pm

It's a very important musical that may not have revolutionized the entire Broadway musical artform as was predicted but its influenced is definitely felt. I think I had much more of an issue with it when I was in college and struggling financially than I do now. I think the difference is that I realize these characters don't have to represent every body and I accept they can be real dickheads who thumb their nose at others, especially to actual working people, because that's all they really have going for them to get them by. Anyway, to paraphrase Sondheim, dickheads can be right, selfish self-centered people can be good. I also realized that although I think people should pay rent, Benny really was a slum lord who was evicting them illegally...from what I remember. And Manhattan really has become Benny's vision and totally unaffordable for most people.

Updated On: 8/12/18 at 06:51 PM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/12/18 at 8:42pm

@Soaring I did not understand your frame of reference. Regarding prologue, I think the opening song was exposition and them, not to be taken literally when it talked about last/this/next year's rent. I sensed you were reading it literally.

@poison as I said before, this was not a happy ending but a happier ending. ("No Day But Today" And these people were NOT abandoned. They had friends and support. The east village was not a conservative town somewhere, and Larson was telling a story he observed. One more point. The haves always disparage the have nots (certainly we understand this in 2018) and the greatest scorn is reserved for have nots by choice.

[Soaring29]

Posted: 8/12/18 at 10:36pm

HogansHero said: "@Soaring I did not understand your frame of reference. Regarding prologue, I think the opening song was exposition and them, not to be taken literally when it talked about last/this/next year's rent. I sensed you were reading it literally.

@poison as I said before, this was not a happy ending but a happier ending. ("No Day But Today" And these people were NOT abandoned. They had friends and support. The east village was not a conservative town somewhere, and Larson was telling a story he observed. One more point. The haves always disparage the have nots (certainly we understand this in 2018) and the greatest scorn is reserved for have nots by choice."

No, I was listening to the original cast album  to check on this more and in the track Tune Up #2, Benny states  that he's looking for  the "past year's rent that I let slide". 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/12/18 at 11:05pm

ok, so when you were talking about selfish people you were referring to Benny?

I'm not sure how any of this relates to anything pertinent to the show's legacy and reputation. There are people who do silly things, unethical things, immature things, sketchy things. Why would portraying some instances of that be a part of the show's legacy or reputation. It sounds to me like folks who were not there projecting on those who were. 

Updated On: 8/12/18 at 11:05 PM

[Soaring29]

Posted: 8/13/18 at 12:23am

HogansHero said: "ok, so when you were talking about selfish people you were referring to Benny?

I'm not sure how any of this relates to anything pertinent to the show's legacy and reputation. There are people who do silly things, unethical things, immature things, sketchy things. Why would portraying some instances of that be a part of the show's legacy or reputation. It sounds to me like folks who were not there projecting on those who were."

My referring to to the fact that  the characters are selfish people  was  made  in a separate comment   from the comment that I made regarding the rent dispute between the characters.   

 

 

 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/13/18 at 12:32am

then what is the point you were making re the rent dispute? I don't get it.

[A Director]

Posted: 8/13/18 at 2:24am

When RENT opened on Broadway in 1996, Cats, Phantom, Les Miserables and Miss Saigon dominated the scene.  All of them are set in the past and all depend technical effects.  RENT, on the other hand, takes place "now" and does not depend on technical effects.  It focuses on people. The musical felt like a breath of fresh air.  Up until Cats opened on Broadway, musicals were not about scenery; they were about people. In  one sense, Jonathan Larson's  show is a throwback to the past.  RENT can be done on a bare stage and it  move the audience; the same can't said about the four imports.

As for the show's legacy, Lin-Manuel Miranda and Tom Kitt have said they were influenced by RENT.

[Soaring29]

Posted: 8/13/18 at 4:11am

HogansHero said: "then what is the point you were making re the rent dispute?I don't get it."

 

I was expressing my opinion regarding why people who have a negative  point of view of the show are wrong in at least one respect given the given circumstances of the plot. I feel like you're taking all of this too seriously- the comment was really just me expressing my opinion on why critics of the show are wrong in at least one respect given the given circumstances of the plot. It wasn't targeted to any user who has commented on this thread. 

 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/13/18 at 10:01am

OK thanks. I was not taking it too seriously, just trying to follow what you were saying since you had intelligent points to make. I was skeptical where this thread would lead when you started it, but I think it ended up being an interesting one.