Retire it, QUEEN!- Page 8

[Calvin]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 11:58am

Perhaps. But just as much as anyone who criticizes a show must be some jealous, out-of-work actor who resents anyone who has made it in the biz.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 12:00pm

I just have a huge problem with anyone who decides negative opinions are auomatically invalid, yet promotes a positive opinion towards something they admit they have never seen.

[SayitSomehow]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 12:02pm

Here's one regarding last night from Talkin Broadway:

"And last but not least, "The Pirate Queen" in its second preview. I liked it very much, and the audience all around me connected with it. It may not be the intellectual's cup of tea, and they will take great pleasure in sneering at it, but it's not "Martin Guerre", either. Running time is 2hr.30 minutes at this point. Stephanie J. Block has one of the best voices on Broadway--lots of belters sing flat or very thinly when they have to sing the high stuff, and her head voice is lovely. She brings commitment and passion to the role, and it's definitely her story now, though Hadley Fraser as Tiernan is her equal--what a voice and presence he has. I loved the production values and the amazing sound of the huge by today's standards ensemble. I'm torn about cutting the piper at the beginning as previous posters mentioned--it is cheesy, but could also be seen as a bit of Irish romance setting the scene. The fiddler dancing around in "Boys Will be Boys" or whatever that song rattling through my brain is called bothered me more, as it's clearly not violin we're hearing. We paid $60 for our tickets, and thought it was money well-spent. The tourists should take to the show, and that's not a bad thing, as is employing all the theatre professionals attached to this production. The mindset we bring to the theatre certainly influences our perception of its value-we enjoyed everything we took in."

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 12:03pm

I've never seen anyone referred to as a shill who wasnt likely one on bww. Someone who joined the board to promotes a show they have a vested interest in...producer's assistant? Star's lawyer?

When one is transparent, I'll likely post and call them out.

[MenzelManiac]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 12:43pm

I saw the preview last night. And here's why. The first Broadway show I ever had any exposure to was Les Mis. I got a hold of the 10th Anniversary Concert double CD as a young high school sophomore in a small farm town in upstate NY. It blew my mind. I fell in love with the "epic" nature of the story, with the amazing songs, the sweeping melodies, the gritty nature of some of the characters. It was my introduction to Broadway, and when it became my first Broadway show a year later, my life changed. I knew that I had been indoctrinated into a whole new world that would be with me forever. Broadway shows never leave you. I saw the show 3 more times before ever seeing another show.

Well now it's lots of years later, and I've had my share of great theatrical experiences (Wicked, Hairspray), just plain guilty fun experiences (In My Life, Brooklyn), and stuff I was frustrated I got ever free tickets for (Good Vibrations). Admittedly, I found things I liked about In My Life, Wicked, and Brooklyn, and I know that on this board that a statement like that will undoubtedly weaken or invalidate slightly my opinion. I still believe that I define "amazing" or "great" shows in the same vein as Les Miserables, which I understand is just a slanted view stemming from my love of Broadway being projected into the Les Mis show.

When I heard that this show (PQ) was coming to New York, and that it was a period piece that wanted to try to be a new theatrical experience, with Irish step-dancing and music, I was really excited. I was hoping that this could be the next "big" show with a new approach to musical theatre. Having enjoyed Wicked, I never got a chance to see SJB, so that was another draw for me. I didn't read any reviews from Chicago, because I like to go into shows with no critical expectations and just be able to experience a show for me. The goods and the bads. And it's usually much harder for me to find stuff that is bad versus stuff that is good. Even in "simpler" shows like Hairspray or "bad" shows like Brooklyn, I find things to enjoy. I don't look for negative stuff, and I don't go in looking for things to rip apart.

I saw Pirate Queen last night, the second night of previews. I disagree wholeheartedly with the statement that no one should open their mouths until a show opens, critics or fans. As another poster stated, that's how a show gets feedback. In fact, I'm pretty sure someone associated with the show was sitting next to me, because he slipped in right after the lights went down (first row of the first mezzanine) and pretty much grilled me during the intermission and after the show about my feelings about very specific things. Opinions are opinions, and if people are so easily influenced that they would choose not to see a show based on a spectator's individual feelings about a show, then that's silly.

I was so excited when the lights went down, that I was finally going to experience PQ, that I had waited months for. (My boyfriend would laugh at me when I told him how excited I was) The first act was not amazing. I went to the intermission with my friend and had questions for him.

Why did SJB float across the top of the stage in a bucket? Is it because the Hilton has the ability to do that and they wanted to show it off? I asked him to sing me any line of melody from the first act. He couldn't. I couldn't. A lot of the songs are very simple and basic, with the same melodies just repeating over and over, but they're so basic and simple that you don't remember them. I was really frustrated with the way they handled the Queen herself. I guess it's just my own preference, but I would have loved for the Queen to be an alto. I think the strength of the position would have come across a lot more clearly had they written the songs in a lower register. In its current state(and probably unchanging state, given the time left until opening), a lot of the diction is muddled and unintelligible because they have her singing in her "head voice" (attack me musical theater fans, I know women don't have a "head voice") and you can't understand anything. The show is pitted, in part, as this great struggle between two strong women. In fact, the playbill includes historical information about Elizabeth and Grania, to prepare us for this great conflict. Elizabeth doesn't come across as a strong woman until after the conflict has been resolved in the second act; yes, it is resolved behind a wall. The first act ends with the burning of Grania's father's body. On stage. Really jolting for the audience, and as I looked around me people were looking at each other with slightly horrified looks.

I was frustrated because I was really trying so hard to like things about this show, but they were making it difficult. Yes, Stephanie Block has a great voice. But with a show like this one, the story is TOO epic for one woman to carry the show. She needs support from the book, the music, and the lyrics. Or at least one of those. The ensemble is great, the dancing is amazing, the lighting is GORGEOUS, the costumes are very impressive with lots of amazing detail work (but yes, the Queen's guards do feel a bit like Spamalot).

I would like to see it again once it is frozen, but given the time that the show has HAD to make it good versus the time the show HAS to fix the problems, I think the clock is really against the success of this show. I am all FOR the success of the show and its actors and crew. I just don't think, given the current state of the show, that it's going to work out for a long-term run. And that's really disappointing.

Some people can say they saw it coming, some people can attack each other personally, but as a theater fan, as a fan of performance and show above almost all else, I just wanted to share my opinion. Do with it what you will.

[CFK]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 1:08pm

^^

Excellently said and executed. I wish more people on this board would step off their high horses, so that we could get more posts like yours!

[NDR]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 1:14pm

"But wouldn't shills have a better grasp of the English language and how to type it properly? I mean, that's just an assumption. Call me naive if you will."

SG - back off - a better grasp of the english language? What kind of statement is that anyway? For what reason, really?

Find better things to do that try to tear people down.
Updated On: 3/8/07 at 01:14 PM

[NDR]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 1:15pm

Honestly - what are you all talking about with the "shill" comments? After all, I am linguistically challenged according to SG.
Updated On: 3/8/07 at 01:15 PM

[NDR]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 1:19pm

"So by your own admission, having not seen the show, you cannot yet form a critique, yet you herald something you have yet to experience as "great" and "a triumph"? And you have the gall to criticize others who have actually seen the show, but give a negative "critique" or whatever you want to call it?"

I did not see the Wright brothers fly the first airplane but I can still comment that it was in fact a great moment in history. Get the point now?

I have not criticized those who have seen the show - I merely was trying to engage them to think beyond their own preconceptions - to be more objective - I know I obviously failed to do this myself - that is exactly why I was encouraging others to attempt it...

"And yes, truth is subjective and fact is objective. That was the point of my analogy.'

Well then your explanation was not clear enough, maybe SG could help you explain it better.

"And I am not attacking you. I'm only attacking your hypocrisy. Objectively." Hypocrisy? Such strong language. Call it what you may, but I was merely (as I have said like a million times now) trying to insight conversation (well one other than this ridiculous rant of yours and SG's).

[NDR]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 1:21pm

"NDR-- Have you seen The Pirate Queen. From your comments, it sounds like you have not."

Are you really reading my posts - I did SAY that I have yet to see it.

[NDR]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 1:23pm

"I just have a huge problem with anyone who decides negative opinions are auomatically invalid, yet promotes a positive opinion towards something they admit they have never seen."

I promote positivity in life, Mister Matt.
Sorry to impede on your reign of negativity or personal attacks.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 1:23pm

"so now you are attacking my language skills for what reason really?"

Quite an illustration.

[TechEverlasting]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 1:28pm

brdlwyr wrote:
"I must tell the truth, I am Stephanie's lawyer and she is paying me to post here.

I love the show and Stephanie and if you do not like the show, then you must be a weenie."

So sue me then! (just kidding!!)

Brdlwyr, the phony onstage musicians have been added since Chicago. I've heard this was an idea in the original story treatment. I think having a real musician playing the flute in the overture and the pipes before the funeral would be incredibly powerful, but if they can't put an actual musician up there they should throw the whole concept out immediately.

[brdlwyr]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 1:30pm

People talk about the size of the Hilton, is it much bigger than the Palace?

The musician thing sounds silly. I apparently received a commitment from Mrs. Brd to go to NY this Summer, so hopefully we will see it then.

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 1:41pm

NDR-- I am not a ranter on this board and probably never will be. I've been stating things rather plainly sans rant.

Regarding why I said you don't have a proper grasp of the English language, I would point out some previous posts of yours, but you seem to have deleted them.

[NDR]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 1:41pm

Since I am not entitled to self expression or the use of the english language, I hereby remove myself from this and all future conversations on this particular message thread.

Say what you will but apparently I can't.

[NDR]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 1:43pm

Exactly my point, we all express ourselves differently including our use of the english language. We are not all copyeditors, etc.

[commasplice]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 1:43pm

"People talk about the size of the Hilton, is it much bigger than the Palace?"

According to IBDB, the Hilton has 1815 seats, and the Palace has 1735 seats (both approx), so it doesn't seem to be that much of difference (I've never been in them, though, so I couldn't tell you what it feels like inside - but by comparison, the Cadillac Palace in Chicago has 2500 seats.).

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 1:49pm

I wasn't worried so much about your punctuation and spelling, NDR. That I can deal with. But if you can't express yourself and your ideas clearly via writing, it's hard for others on these boards to understand what on earth you're talking about. Feel free to take all of this personally. But this is not a personal attack because I don't know you.

However, when you come on a board and start posting about how a show, which you admittedly have not seen, is going to go down in the history of great musicals, you look absurd. You WILL be called out for that here on BWW as well as other places. Call us mean and spiteful and negative nellies, but you need to be able to express yourself coherently and be sure that your ideas have a firm basis in fact and reality.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 1:50pm

"I did not see the Wright brothers fly the first airplane but I can still comment that it was in fact a great moment in history. Get the point now?"

Um, no. It's a completely invalid analogy. There is no evidence to support that The Pirate Queen has advanced the art of musical theatre in any significant way, much less permanently altering the progression and interaction of mankind on a universal level. And before anyone even tries it, Pirate Queen still has yet to officially open, so trying to compare to not having seen the original production of Show Boat or Oklahoma is fruitless at this point as well. Not to mention the fact that at this point, virtually nothing in Pirate Queen is innovative artistically nor technically, so unless a miracle occurs in the next few weeks (which rarely, if ever, happens between previews and opening), your eager defense of your "proposal" of positivity, thinly veiled as a shilled opinion based merely on subjective speculation, is nothing more than confusing folderol.

"Sorry to impede on your reign of negativity or personal attacks."

Actually, that's a very ignorant statement. Perhaps you should stick around a bit before making that sort of assumption. Actually, I have said many positive things about lots of shows people don't like including Pirate Queen. And my personal comments regarding the show are objective. Since I saw it in Chicago (twice), I have backed up my statements with citing specific examples and evidence and even offered suggestions.

Hey, I'm hoping Xanadu will open and be a toe-tapping cheesy crowd-pleaser, but I don't try and FORCE everyone to say nice things about it just because I'm excited about the show. I was excited about Pirate Queen as well, until I was disappointed by the actual production. It happens.

Glad I could grab those quotes before you decided to clear your tracks...

Updated On: 3/8/07 at 01:50 PM

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 2:00pm

"I hereby remove myself from this and all future conversations on this particular message thread."

Aww...guess you'll have to check your sock drawer.

[singingbackup]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 2:16pm

WANNA BE A FOSTER--Thanks for your frank and informing posts. You are one of the most passionate theater lovers I have ever known, so those who say negative things about you just don't know.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, blah blah blah.

Here's how I see it. Theater is damn expensive, especially for those of us who aren't students, don't have friends or work for a theater or someone in theater,etc..and have to pay full price to see a show, which is creeping past the $110 mark. Add to that many of us don't live in NYC, so a trip to New York is costly as well, and time is often limited. I don't have the time and money to see everything and I want to know as much as I can before I plunk down my Credit Card for a seat. And for those who cry "It's ONLY the first preview", I say charge a whole lot less as you make your changes. Like unfinished furniture or frozen pizza.

I went through all this with LESTAT, chomping at the bit, running up to SF (plane, hote, etc) eagerly anticipating something great and it was one hot mess that, from all accounts, never was fixed. And as there were similar arguements about Hairspray, Wicked, etc...in previews or out of town tryouts, those shows started out very solid, and the changes only enhanced an already strong product.

And finally, going back to the days of Star Search, audiences will applaud ANYTHING! Every time a singer would sustain a long note or modulate, the crowd would go nuts. My second career is in music, and have had countless experiences in front people where the song we were performing had its bad moments, but as long as we ended with a big finish or a pleasing high note, the audience loved it!

I think Wanna, WOT and others who are passionate about theater deep down really want all theater to succeed. Me too. It's just so frustrating when really talented people come together but the end result is underwhelming. Makes me think "But these are the guys that did________and she was so great in_________ so how could it NOT be great?!"

Peace

[WithoutATrace]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 2:20pm

I really did/do want this show to succeed and I am still upset and angry that I didn't enjoy it more. I'm glad I'm giving it a second chance next week though.

[singingbackup]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 2:38pm

WOT: That's why we love you! I hope you find more in it to enjoy.

[singingbackup]

Posted: 3/8/07 at 2:38pm

When's the official opening? Updated On: 3/8/07 at 02:38 PM