Rob Marshall Directing Into the Woods Film For Disney- Page 8

[random person 112]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 12:39am

Well i still think we should get her and if not, is linda lavin available or kathy najimy?

[ComingUpRoses2]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 10:14am

I don't see them cutting No More if they want a big star in the Baker's role. That is sort of what makes his role interesting. It would be like cutting Sally's Losing My Mind from Follies or cutting Rose's Turn from Gypsy. I don't think that cut will happen. The rest are certainly fair game.

They'll have to re-work the prologue I'm sure. It's bound to be a feast of intercutting. Cinderella At the Grave will most likely stay, as it tells us about her relationship with her mother and also shows us how she gets her wardrobe for the festival in the first place.

Lament will probably be cut. I don't see Your Fault getting the boot. It's a fast, quick little song that leads into Last Midnight. I don't see Last Midnight working very well without Your Fault.

[best12bars]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 10:45am

They'll never cut "No More."

Or is it, "They'll never not cut No More ever?"

The song and its point are too important.

Things I would cut or trim:


Act One Prologue: Into the Woods" - tighten, but it's pretty tight as is. Minor trimming at most.
"Cinderella at the Grave" – Cut. Do it with dialogue.
"Hello, Little Girl" – Cut most of it. Do with dialogue.
"I Guess This Is Goodbye" – It's short enough, so keep it.
"Maybe They're Magic" – cut it. except for the very last part. The rest, dialogue.
"Maybe They're Magic (reprise)" - Cut.
"I Know Things Now" – Keep.
"A Very Nice Prince" – Trim down.
"First Midnight" – Keep. It's short.
"Giants in the Sky" – Keep.
"Agony" – Keep.
"A Very Nice Prince (reprise)" – Keep.
"It Takes Two" – Keep.
"Second Midnight" – Keep, it's short.
"Stay With Me" – Keep.
"On the Steps of the Palace" – Trim way down or cut or replace.
"Act One Finale: Ever After" – keep, but rework.
Act II
"Act Two Prologue: So Happy" – Cut. Do with dialogue.
"Agony" (reprise) – Trim way down, but keep.
"Witch's Lament" – Keep.
"Any Moment" – Cut. Do with dialogue.
"Any Moment (reprise)" - Cut. Do with dialogue.
"Moments in the Woods" – Keep.
"Your Fault" – Keep. (Yes, you could do it with dialogue, but it wouldn't be better or quicker, so keep it. It's very clever.)
"Last Midnight" – Keep.
"No More" – Keep.
"No One Is Alone (part 1)" – Keep, but trim down.
"No One Is Alone (part 2)" - Keep, but trim down.
"Act Two Finale: Children Will Listen" – Keep, but rework/ trim down.

[NoHSMisNotAMusical]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 11:12am

Merle Louise could realistically play Granny. She was 54-ish during the original Broadway production; she's in her late seventies now. This could be the only case of someone originating a role on Broadway and then going on to play it again 30+ years later.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 11:13am

best 12, good breakdown, with three exceptions.

Disagree about "Maybe they're Magic" as its important both musically and character development wise for two our of three leads. Disagree about trimming Hello Little Girl which is tuneful, funny and the Wolf's big moment. Strongly disagree about "On The Steps of the Palace" which is a great song and Cinderella's tour de force.

[best12bars]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 11:14am

Actually, even more than a cameo from one of its original stars, I think having one original cast member, like Merle Louise would be fantastic. She was so great in the stage show as Granny. Feisty and physically perfect. I'd love to see her in the film.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 11:15am

best 12, good breakdown, with three exceptions.

Disagree about "Maybe they're Magic" as its important both musically and character development wise for two our of three leads. The tune, as I recall, also foreshadows "Moments in the Woods," one of the most important numbers in the story and The Baker's Wife's star spot. Disagree about trimming Hello Little Girl which is tuneful, funny and the Wolf's big moment. Strongly disagree about "On The Steps of the Palace" which is a great song and Cinderella's tour de force.

[best12bars]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 11:20am

Well, Henrik, you realize that I didn't cut anywhere nearly enough?

I erred on the side of keeping things. In reality, they will probably cut a lot more than I did. With all your "disagreements," you're basically removing almost nothing at all (if anything). That would make the movie 2 hrs. 45 min. long, which they'll never do.

Assuming you have to cut even more than I did, what would you cut instead?

Updated On: 1/15/12 at 11:20 AM

[best12bars]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 11:29am

Just to justify a couple of my personal choices to edit ... The Steps of the Palace is terrific on stage, but it would be very strange in a movie. Who is she saying this to? You could edit it way down and use it as voiceover with flashbacks of her festival experiences, perhaps. But I think you could do that faster and cleaner without the song and get the same point across. It's a great song, but an awkward one on film. Plus, you could summarize her decisions in half the time.

Maybe They're Magic can easily be summed up in 3 or 4 lines of dialogue without the Baker's Wife stopping to self-analyze her decisions as to why she's "justifying the beans." I would keep maybe a small portion of it (the last part, showing her reasoning) without her talking about how you go and get things (redundant).

I would say a basic rule of thumb is take out anything that rehashes something we've just seen. Aside from being repetitive, it slows things down. This doesn't mean I don't love the songs (I do!), but given that you will need to cut material to keep the pace up and ensure a leaner running time, that's the best reasoning I can think of. Also, it's much better to SHOW that a character has learned something rather than TELL us a character has learned something. That's why some of these self-revelations can be summarized with a few closeup shots and sentences of dialogue.

EDIT: In several of these cases, I think it would be better to have the Narrator tell us in 2-3 sentences what the character had learned, rather than have a full song about it. I can see Cinderella spreading pitch on the stairs while he's telling us her reason for doing so.

The nice thing about having a Narrator (that is until they feed him to the giant) is that he can bridge a lot of the gaps created by removing songs. It's a fortunate device to have available when you need to consider removing material for a leaner running time.

Updated On: 1/15/12 at 11:29 AM

[NoHSMisNotAMusical]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 11:46am

Best12- I agree most of those cuts are realistic. Even though "Your Fault" is genius, it still could go on the chopping block.

If they are doing original cast cameos, and since they are likely to show Cinderella at the festival, how about Robert Westenburg and Kim Crosby as the King and Queen?

Also, Milky White better not be CGI. It's hard enough for bovine actors to get a job in this economy.

[best12bars]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 12:01pm

LOL I'm sure Milky White will be a CGI cow. I love the King & Queen cameo ideas. I hope they do some of that.

Your Fault could easily go and be replaced with dialogue, but I can see it being a bit like "It's All Over!" in Dreamgirls. Yes, you can do that with dialogue, but it's a fast-paced back-and-forth between the characters arguing and accusing, leading into a bigger song. Ii think if the point can be made equally well and equally fast with either dialogue or song, then keep the song. If it can be trimmed down or done better/faster without it, then lose the song (with the exception of a small handful of songs that have to stay, like No One Is Alone, Children Will Listen, and the title song, etc.)

I can see little snippets of cut songs staying, too. Even though I would cut the Act II opener, I would love to have the stepsisters sing the one phrase "We're so happy you're so happy, Just as long as you stay happy, we'll be happy," etc. Just a tiny bit of it. A phrase here a verse there. That will mean some of these songs can still have a presence without being missed entirely.

I keep thinking of Disney's Alice In Wonderland, where many of the songs are under one minute in length. Short snippets that keep the tone, get the point across, and still feel "musical" without slowing anything down or extending it beyond what a film audience is used to.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 12:20pm

I don't know, best 12, generally things can be done much faster on film, allowing for cuts replacing changes and doing away with intermission, plus dialogue can be cut because images are more fluid and can convey much more than dialouge can on stage. This added to the song cuts you've outlined (and yes I might have some additional cuts or trims) may make a decent film. Dialogue can also be interpolated into song for condensing narrative. I agree there is no reason Into the Woods should be a very long film. But good film editing, employed throughout a good movie, has a way of supplanting song edits as damaging to Into the Woods as your three suggestions to which I've taken objection (some negotably).

Only three mind you, "On the Steps of the Palace" is the mosgt crucial, which I contend could be very filmic with the right creative use of flashback - and a good adaptation could have her telling this to the Bakers wife, for instance, who has already served as a sounding board for Cinderella's story.

[best12bars]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 12:36pm

One of the areas that I think will be expanded is the rampage of the giant's wife. Since it pretty much happens off-stage in the Broadway show, you can expect to see her crushing things in the movie. That will add some minutes of "action" and visual effects, too.

[hyperbole_and_a_half]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 1:30pm

The more I think about this, the more it reminds me of Sweeney Todd: a film adaptation sounds great until you realize that the show hinges upon purely theatrical moments that cannot be translated to film. For Sweeney, those moments were the Ballad of Sweeney Todd and the subsequent transitions, and the wonderful Epilogue. Those moments propelled and commented on the action in the show, and lifted the main character from barber-done-wrong to mythical everyman/semi-anti-hero, and I think the movie suffered from lack of them.

Into the Woods has an even bigger problem here: the Narrator. Since narration in film is always done via voice-over, there is no way to make his death scene, in which the characters of his stories physically accost him and feed him to the giant, "filmic." Without that death scene, there'd be no adequate explanation for why the narration stopped 75% of the way through the movie. They'd likely be forced to extend the narration through to the end of the movie, and thereby undermine the central message of bucking fatalism to create your own happy endings out of murky and morally ambiguous situations. I'm not interested in seeing an Into the Woods where the Narrator suddenly chimes in after Children Will Listen to remind us that these characters always had a happily ever after waiting for them at the end of the book -- you might as well only adapt the first act.

Another option is to cut the Narrator completely. If they did, then other numbers, most notably the Prologue and Ever After, will also have to be either gutted and redone or excised entirely. Also, since the Narrator's major purpose (at least in the first act) is to condense exposition, more time will be devoted to dialogue just to get through the exceptionally dense plot, and that will translate to still more music being cut.

Basically, their treatment of the Narrator will likely determine the film's success as an adaptation of the stage musical, at least for me. The good news is Lapine is on board; the bad news is that I'm not convinced that Lapine always knows what makes his own material tick. Also, the other bad news is Rob Marshall. And Disney. The movie is almost certainly going to be populated with High School Musical and Cheetah Girls cast-offs.

[random person 112]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 1:49pm

I also fail to understand why your haxing 'maybe' if they do maybe with dialogue the audience will ignore it and forget about it, which they can't do as it sets up most of act ones philosphy, which act two promptly tears apart. If they sing it then people will rember it, it will have that importance. Cinderella at the grave while short can be done with lines, but if they get a name for cinderella i could see them keeping just because she'll want a solo. Wolfs song can be cut, but i'd prefer they keep it as it sets up the message of how some men prey upon the innocent and beautiful young women concept. If they get a name they'll keep it. I guess this is goodbye will be cut as he can do it in lines get the same point across and it saves room for more music. I know things now may be kept, giants in the sky will stay since it helps pave the way for act 2 (shortened though very shortened). Our little world we can do without, i'd prefer to keep it but we may have to sacrife it. A very nice prince can be cut and done with dialogue. Agony can go either way. It takes two is needed. Stay with me will be shortened but they will keep it. On the steps will be done simply because, if they don't cinderellas decission to go back home will seem strange to everyone. So happy can go. Into the woods reprise cut it down alot, same with the agony reprise. Lament will be kept since the witch will be a huge star. Any moment, could be trimmed but no. Moments in the wood needs to be kept. Your fault is actually alot longer than i thought, shorten a bit. The problem with no more is that it is beautiful but it slows down the show so much, that to me it lays there, its beautiful it has emotion but the audience will be impatient by this part of the story, they'll want to seem fight the giant not the bakers problems, do it in a scene, unless the baker is really a name this song is gone. No one is alone is actually a pretty famous song, so i don't think we can cut it. Plus whoever plays cindy will demand it be kept. Children will listen may be trimmed but i don't see it being trimmed too much. That's it.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 2:05pm

I think I lose ten IQ points every time I open this thread.

[random person 112]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 2:09pm

Also in what world is no more, a roses turn, franklin shepard inc., or ephiany, it's not. That would be last midnight, and moments in the woods, not no more. No more would work better as a scene. Plus by this point the audience is more invest in them defeating the giant.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 2:12pm

No more.

[random person 112]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 2:24pm

Lapine is writing the script phyllis. I'm not saying jetison that part of the plot, i'm saying, it would have the same power on film as a scene as it would a song. It's beautiful and works perfect in a musical. But this close to the end where almost everything is in song. Some cuts need to be made out of all of those songs no more is the easiest to get rid of sense it works so perfectly as a acting tour de force scene. Plus i'd rather cut it than see no one is alone jettisoned to just a cinderella solo.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 3:05pm

"The more I think about this, the more it reminds me of Sweeney Todd: a film adaptation sounds great until you realize that the show hinges upon purely theatrical moments that cannot be translated to film."

Hyperbole, I've said this before but very few shows in the history of musical theater are more essentially "theatrical" or seemingly impervious to cinematic adaptation than CHICAGO. That it turned out to be a superb and successful movie is a shocker. But it did.

Let's not confuse challenges with insurmountable obstacles/untranslatabilities quite yet.

[best12bars]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 3:19pm

The Narrator should definitely be a character. He should be seen on screen, telling the story to someone. Not voiceover exclusively.

[random person 112]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 3:21pm

Yes but then how do we kill him best12?

[best12bars]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 3:46pm

The characters can pull him into the story and feed him to the giant!

(gross)

Or they could be more harmless about it and just "cut him off" from telling any more. Close the book on him, as it were and finish the story themselves.

I think it needs something a little more permanent than that, though. I think he should get pulled into the story ... quite literally. Then die when they don't like the way he's telling it.

[random person 112]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 4:06pm

That would be quite tricky to do from a directorial stand point though, we mit be journeying closer into cartoon land than fantasy. I like the earlier idea of having him not be seen till he is captured, that way the characters have a conversation with their 'god', maybe he can just be hiding in a tree that way he can see everything that occurs around him, but be above it all, a kind of forest hermit. On another subject would Dick Van Dyke be up to narrator mysterious man?

Updated On: 1/15/12 at 04:06 PM

[best12bars]

Posted: 1/15/12 at 4:48pm

Not being seen is one thing ... but hiding in a tree?

"Godlike" or Keebler Elf?!