Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been? — Page 2

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#26

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/21/07 at 11:54pm

Yeah we all heard the same that Russell was going to be Sweeney but I had heard that it was between Meryl Streep and Emma Thompson for Mrs Lovett. Now I would kill to see Emma in that part...could you even imagine?!!

Now I am not a Russell Crowe fan at all...but I do think he would have been a great Sweeney. I mean after Gary Oldman what other overseas actor can do that inner intensity and rage(and be downright intimidating) better than Russell?!! Hmmmm maybe Ralph Fiennes but I will leave the dream casting alone. It is too late now!

#27

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/22/07 at 11:33am

I actually think that Gary Oldman would have been a great Sweeney. Does he sing at all?

Overall, I really liked the film, but I must admit that Depp's singing was a bit weak for my taste, and he acting was very good, but his persona didn't have the girth and rage required for the role. "Epiphany" felt a bit too choreographed. Depp should have been busting at the seams, but instead made his anger very contained.

Helena Bonham Carter was very lovely and had some poignant moments, but down played the humor so much that is was almost non-existent, which is a big shame. Also - her singing was so disappointing.

Other than the two leads, I pretty much loved the rest of the cast. Rickman, Spall and Baron-Cohen were more than perfect. And Anthony and Johanna were lovely and not at all annoying.

I think that seeing this movie made me love the two Broadway versions a lot more. I think everyone should see the Burton film as a jumping off point, and then delve in to the other versions.

#28

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/22/07 at 12:18pm

Hen88, I don't know if Oldman sings, but he does come from that British background of training where you learn to do everything so I wouldn't be surprised. But truth be told he couldn't have been any worse than anyone in the film.

#29

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/22/07 at 1:11pm

"Helena Bonham Carter was very lovely and had some poignant moments, but down played the humor so much that is was almost non-existent, which is a big shame. Also - her singing was so disappointing. "

Won't argue with you about the singing, but it's possible that the humor being underplayed is a function of the director and editing, and not her.

- Gil http://www.broadwayabridged.com

#30

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/22/07 at 7:17pm

Helena Bonham Carter cannot sing, is not funny, and has the personality of a gnat. What a PERFECT Lovett "concept!"

It makes no sense that Lovett's as drained and dead as Sweeney. Then there's no contrast and no foil--no one urging him back to life. When she whispered, "Life is for living, darling," I wondered how the hell she would know--I find it hard even to tell if she IS alive.

SPOILER**********************************************************

Sweeney would NEVER have let Johanna go at the end! When he said, "Forget my face" and left her alone, I almost started laughing.

I ask in all honesty/What would life be?/Without a song and a dance, what are we?/So I say "Thank you for the music/For giving it to me."

#31

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/22/07 at 7:23pm

^ And how do you know he would NEVER let her go? Are you inside the character's head? I can't believe people are seriously harping over these minor changes. People need to get over the loss of the ballad, loss of Kiss Me, Helena's singing, etc. This is a damn fine film, and a very faithful adaption of the stage show. There is a reason why certain things were cut, and if some took the time to read the interviews with John Logan, Tim Burton, and Sondheim, they would understand why.

Updated On: 12/22/07 at 07:23 PM

#32

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/22/07 at 7:53pm

I agree with LJay. Particularly about Helena's singing. Okay, maybe the movie soundtrack will not be my first choice to listen to when I want to listen to the best-sung Lovett (that's what the OBCR is for). But watching the film I thought Carter's Lovett was SO brilliant. Plus, Burton did not treat the songs as musical numbers, instead they felt like dialogue put to music, the transition between spoken dialogue and songs was so seamless that I really didn't feel like there were "songs" which is why Carter's singing worked so well for me in the context of the movie.

"Some people can thrive and bloom living life in a living room, that's perfect for some people of one hundred and five. But I at least gotta try, when I think of all the sights that I gotta see, all the places I gotta play, all the things that I gotta be at"

#33

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/22/07 at 9:15pm

Rayandallthat jazz and LJ I really wonder if you guys are just to devoted to the show and blinded by the joy of seeing musical theater on the big screen to really be objective. People are not griping about the cuts because they simply love those songs, they give the characters valuable motivations and fleshes them out for us to connect with them more. That is why we need them. How can you look at Anthony and Johanna in this fim's version and care about them, we don't even get the chance to know them.

Oh my God, Helena.....I don't understand the raves about her interpretation. Help me to understand where you guys are coming from. She had no life to her character, there was no interpretation or connection to the songs, not being able to sing is one thing, but you must have a connection to what the songs are about. If I didn't know the show I would not understand who her character was at all. I would not know who she is or what she was about. This film is flawed and my proof of this are the 6 people who walked out of the movie at my screening. If I know the show and didn't get it...what is it like for the people who don't know it?!!

#34

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/22/07 at 9:26pm

It's just the fact people keep complaining and complaining and making excuses about the cuts. Your excuses are wrong. The creators have stated why the cuts were made, but no one is taking the time to acknowledge that.

Some examples

It was a combined decision on my part and Tim's. I tried so many different approaches to keep that song in. Because not only is it one of the keynote numbers; it's one of Steve's greatest achievements. But it is not sung by the major characters, and it is not emotionally motivated by their journeys through the story. So I tried ghosts singing it, I tried the people of London singing it, but it never really worked. And it was only finally right as we started filming that we made the decision to cut it, because we realized it always was going to be an artificial construct. - John Logan on cutting The Ballad

My other big challenge was that when we took away Judge Turpin's "Johanna" and when we took away the quartet of "Kiss Me" and "Ladies In Their Sensitivities," we needed a way to firmly plant him as the antagonist in the piece. So I wrote that sequence when Antony goes in to his house, and later the scene with Johanna packing to leave, and I think the movie benefits from them.- John Logan on more cuts

A song like ‘Kiss Me’ has its delights onstage if it’s played well, because it’s funny and silly, and I’ve always meant it to be suspenseful, because you worry if the Judge is going to discover the lovers. But that’s just not how the sequence in the movie is written, and if you don’t have that, then you’re stuck in the parlor with the lovers singing and singing and singing and singing and — nothing. So there’s no point. - Sondheim on the cut of "Kiss Me"

And there's more explanations of cuts that I can't find right now.

Updated On: 12/22/07 at 09:26 PM

#35

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/22/07 at 9:59pm

This film is flawed and my proof of this are the 6 people who walked out of the movie at my screening. If I know the show and didn't get it...what is it like for the people who don't know it?!!

I would lay so much money down that those people went into it not knowing ANYTHING about the story and wanted to see a Johnny Depp flick. They're ignorant and should perhaps do their research.

"I love talking about nothing. It is the only thing I know anything about." - Oscar Wilde

#36

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/22/07 at 10:03pm

Personally I would have loved to see HUGH JACKMAN and CATHERINE ZETA-JONES as TODD AND LOVETT!

"In the U.S.A. You can have your say, You can set you goals And seize the day, You've been given the freedom To work your way To the head of the line- To the head of the line!" ---Stephen Sondheim

#37

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/22/07 at 10:43pm

FOAnatic...I knew someone was going to use the "they were ignorant" excuse in regards to people walking out. Again...I know the show, it is one of my favorite musicals of all time, and I could have walked out!

LJay...thanks for the comments about the cuts, but what about Helena? In regards to those comments about the cuts I say really?!!!? They can find ways to make "A Little Preist" visually work, they made "By The Sea" work but they could not find a way to make "Kiss Me" work?!! That seems a little fishy. And again I point to the fact that Anthony and Johanna suffer greatly because of this. Find a way to make it work for the sake of those characters if nothing else.

Plus...my issues with the movie are of much greater concern than those cut songs as noted in the move review thread and earlier.

#38

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/22/07 at 10:51pm

John Logan and Burton didn't want Anthony and Johanna to verbally communicate with each other until the final sequence. How would KISS ME have worked? Like Sondheim said, KISS ME would not have worked with the way the film was written.

#39

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/22/07 at 11:01pm

I think the movie flows better without Kiss Me. The screenplay conveys all the information in the song without them singing. And even if they did mangage to include the song, it would've been so truncated without the quartet that there would have been little point to having it there at all. Think of all the repetition in the song.

"You drank a charm to kill John Proctor's wife! You drank a charm to kill Goody Proctor!" - Betty Parris to Abigail Williams in Arthur Miller's The Crucible

#40

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/23/07 at 1:23am

"Russell Crowe how horrible would that have been, the man is a waste of space."

Oh please! Russell Crowe is one of the greatest actors of his time. He is not a waste of space.

"No. In 1986, when Fosse was to direct a film of CHICAGO - possibly to ressurect his film career after the failure of Star 80 - he wanted Madonna as Roxie."

Bob Fosse definitely said he was going to get madonna an oscar for playing VELMA not roxie.

"Helena's vocals make nicole kidman sound like whitney houston. i'm sure helena's acting is fine but i can't help but wonder how more interesting lovetts songs would of been in the movie with someone that could actually sing.

Nicole Kidmans voice is not better than Helenas, besides Helena can act circles around Kidman. Love Nicole Kidman but most of it is hype.

#41

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/23/07 at 1:34am

nicole kidmans voice is better then helena's. i'm not saying nicole has the greatest voice ever but her voice is at least pleasant to listen to.

#42

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/23/07 at 1:36am

I think Helena sounds very pleasant in BY THE SEA, NOT WHILE I'M AROUND, and THE FINAL SEQUENCE.

#43

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/23/07 at 1:50am

well i guess it is a matter of opinion because i would much rather listen to Carter than Kidman.

#44

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/23/07 at 2:05am

Okay, I just got back from my second viewing.
People who say Helena Bonham Carter's Lovett is too underplayed and too dead have missed the few moments in which Carter hints at Lovett's passions. When she touches Sweeney for the first time during "My Friends" as they sing "one in my hand" in harmony, her eyes are so hungry for him. When Sweeney sits her down on the chair during "Epiphany" she emanates an impressive amount of sexuality, in that one take she managed to portray Lovett's fears, passions, love, and fetishes in that one shot...brilliant! Look at her eyes during "A Little Priest," she is machinating everything, her eyes are going crazy at that moment. God, what a fascinating performance to watch.

#45

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/23/07 at 2:09am

she is really a remarkable actress. i am ALWAYS telling people to see The Wings of the Dove. it is simply flawless in it, and should have won the oscar over Ms. Helen Hunt.

#46

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/23/07 at 2:28am

I think HBC has some brilliant moments, and was AMAZING during Not While I'm Around, but as a whole I did feel she underplayed too much. People are saying there should have been a different Lovett. I think Carter could have given (or been allowed to give) just a little more energy...for lack of a better comparison, the Lovett of the revival was much played down compared to the original but was still humorous. While there were a few lines that I enjoyed her take on, there were many many many more that just fell flat. It was funny, I expected to love HBC and be ambivalent about JD. I came out just the opposite.

"This ocean runs more dark and deep than you may think you know...I'll be the fear of the fire at sea." -Marie Christine

#47

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/23/07 at 2:58am

FOAnatic...I knew someone was going to use the "they were ignorant" excuse in regards to people walking out. Again...I know the show, it is one of my favorite musicals of all time, and I could have walked out!

Well, I hate to tell ya, you're not the be-all end-all of SWEENEY fans if a vast majority seem to love the film. You can have your opinion but I think this film is superbly crafted.

"I love talking about nothing. It is the only thing I know anything about." - Oscar Wilde

#48

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/23/07 at 11:50am

Now FOAnatic, surely you are not trying to say that I am ignorant too are you? Hence saying that anyone who does not like the film is ignorant or just didn't get it...surely not you are not making that trite argument?!

When I read the reveiws of this film it really feels of blind devotion rather than objectivity. Is "brilliant" really the word to use for Helena's performance? Is the movie truly "superbly" made? I don't understand how something that is truly greatness can have such contrasting reviews(with real critiques not just rants)from people who don't like it.

But that is the business...one of opinions!

#49

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/23/07 at 12:46pm

"This film is flawed and my proof of this are the 6 people who walked out of the movie at my screening. If I know the show and didn't get it...what is it like for the people who don't know it?!!"

But people walking out of a film is not proof they don't get it or it is not good. I was in the biggest theater at Loews Lincoln Center on the west side of manhattan. If you have been there you know this theater is HUGE and every seat was filled from begining to end and everyone cheered. That does not prove people got it so how can people walking out prove people they did not get it? Maybe they did not like the music, maybe they did not like the subject matter, maybe they thought the story was boring, but don't say it proves they did not get it.

#50

re: Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?

Posted: 12/23/07 at 1:19pm

I love when someone makes a quote and still gets what's was said WRONG! I did not say it was proof they "did not get it" I said it was proof that the film was flawed. Because have you ever known someone to walk out of a movie they thought was great?! "Gosh I loved that film and really thought it was great but I just couldn't stay for the ending"....Right! The only reason I even said it was to point out that not everyone thinks the film is a superb masterpiece. Again...I could have walked out and I know the story very well!

And I would surely hope that people cheering at Loews Lincoln Center was proof that they DID like the movie, because if they didn't then why the heck are they cheering?!!! Following the band maybe.....hmmmm sounds like a lot of these reviews.

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