Sam Mendes SWEENEY TODD- What Might Have Been?- Page 3

[roquat]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 8:14pm

Thank you, artsamore. I too believe that people are so happy to see SWEENEY onscreen they are twisting themselves into knots trying to justify Bonham-Carter's miserable performance as some fresh new interpretation. It certainly is--if cold, dead, and humorless is your idea of "fresh." Yes, it would be hard to give a bigger-than-life performance as Lovett onscreen without looking ridiculous--this film certainly didn't fall into that trap. But "smaller than death?" This is the movie that should have been called CORPSE BRIDE.

Whether this was her fault or Burton's is open to debate, but the whole monochromatic, desaturated look of the film was, I believe, an awful mistake. This story is all about foils and contrasts--Sweeney's wounded brooding versus Lovett's cheerful opportunism; Anthony and Johanna's innocent passion versus the Judge's lechery; the Beggar Woman who is both pathetic and whorish. All that was smoothed out; Anthony and Johanna were pale and remote and barely registered. If we don't care about them, where's the terror in the penultimate scene when Sweeney lifts his razor against his own daughter? (And don't tell me a man covered in blood, who has just committed two murders in a space of minutes, wouldn't take two seconds to finish off one more person before running down to see what Lovett was screaming about--I almost started laughing.) The creative team can "explain" their choices as much as they like; that doesn't make them right.

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 8:27pm

Apparently Mendes was to make a film with much fewer songs than the ultimate Burton version.

I am surprised to see so much negativity about Bonham-Carter's performance. I thought she was great! She was spunky and funny at times but she was so much more poigniant and human than previous ones. Her singing was great in the context of the film, it obviously isn't as impressive as, say, Patti Lupone when you're listening to it on a CD.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 8:27pm

Roquat - we could just as easilly argue that you are so "stuck" with the existing interpretation of the characters on stage, that you aren't able to look at a great acting performance independently from her predecessors.

And I have no idea where you get the idea of "Lovett's cheerful oportunism." I'm assuming from Lansbury's performance because that is certainly not how she is depicted in the original fable or Christopher Bond's melodrama.

But at the end of the day, this is all a matter of opinion. I found Bonham Carter's performance soulful, moving and very funny. Different colors than Lansbury or LuPone but equally effective in her own way.


Updated On: 12/23/07 at 08:27 PM

[roquat]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 8:45pm

I couldn't care less about whether the movie's Lovett "lived up" to her predecessors. I was, in fact, looking forward to a fresh and exciting new interpretation on film. When I saw LuPone in the revival, I was stunned by her re-invention of the role--she still got the laughs, but in a much crueler, subtler, more deadpan manner than Lansbury. I assume Bonham-Carter (and Burton) were heading in that direction, but they ended up with just "dead."

There were no laughs at all in the (packed) theatre where I saw the film. There seemed to be dead air around all of Lovett's line readings--you could feel the energy leaking out, and the discomfort in the audience. She didn't seem to have the slightest interest in revitalizing Sweeney, or making money, or enjoying life--in fact, "life-loving" is the last adjective I'd apply to her as an actress in ANY of her performances. With Sweeney drained and withdrawn as well, it was "Night of the Living Dead." Who cares if they get killed when they don't seem alive to start with?

I'm only dwelling on this because I love SWEENEY and have been looking forward to the movie for so long, and there were several elements that worked brilliantly (Alan Rickman's judge, "Pretty Women", "Not While I'm Around", the Beggar Woman's and Judge's deaths, "By the Sea"). I'm not insisting the movie match the stage show--I'm most disappointed in the fact that I don't think it was made to work in movie terms. If anything, Burton was TOO faithful at times--I wish he had slipped in a flashback or two to help us identify with Lucy (it's a movie, why not show her poisoning herself, in the asylum, becoming the Beggar Woman, etc., while Lovett is explaining at the end? It would have taken a couple of seconds and might have made all the difference.)

[JoshuaEads]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 11:26pm

Michael Bennet, I've been looking (half-heartedly, I must admit) for a reading copy of Bond's original play. Do you know where I could find one? Is there a copy online? For that matter, is there a copy online of ANY of the "Sweeney" stage shows?

Thanks so much!
Joshua

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 11:47pm

Samuel French handles the licensing and they have copies of the script you can buy for about 10 dollars

[JoshuaEads]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 11:54pm

Wonderful! Thanks so much!

As a side note, has anyone seen Bond's show onstage? How does it compare to the musical?

~Joshua

[NYC4Life]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 1:24am

"I did not say it was proof they "did not get it" I said it was proof that the film was flawed."

Ok sorry. Just because people walking out think it is a flawed film does not mean it is. I mean these people could just hate musicals or violence. Who knows. Some place, at some time, someone walks out of every movie. I had people walking out of michael clayton, atonement, no country for old men and eastern promises this year! Four of my favorite films of the year. Maybe they thought they were flawed but i sure didn't and you can't PROVE art is flawed. You can't prove acting, movies, music, paintings, or any art form is good or bad. Nothing to measure it by.

Lovett's cheerful opportunism? what? Have you heard the lyrics "A woman alone,With limited wind,And the worst pies in London!Ah, sir, times is hard, Times is hard!" the way Helena played it was just as great as Angela and Patti in my opinion.
Updated On: 12/24/07 at 01:24 AM

[FOAnatic]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 1:56am

There were no laughs at all in the (packed) theatre where I saw the film. There seemed to be dead air around all of Lovett's line readings--you could feel the energy leaking out, and the discomfort in the audience.

Does that speak for every audience everywhere? It certainly doesn't speak for mine. My audience LOVED Helena, as did I. I think she completely made the character her own. It was the first Lovett where I saw the fear of Sweeney. Lansbury was his equal. LuPone was more subtly calculated. Helena is afraid of Sweeney, but she absolutely adores him. And this is the first Lovett where I saw a true emotional attachment to Toby. Especially in the final scene, it's a battle to find him first. Sweeney wants to kill him and Lovett wants to save him.

Personally I think she's brilliant in this film.

[westcoast_wannabe]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 5:17am

JoshuaEads (or anyone else) if you’re interested in reading the original penny dreadful that Sweeney Todd is based on here is a link to a free online copy:
The String of Pearls

[roquat]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 4:20pm

To the tune of "Worst Pies"...

You know financing is hard, sir
Mine is probably the worst voice in movies
Only air and nothing more
I did my audition
On Tim Burton's mattress
'Cause I'm a nonsinging
Nondancing nonactress
Poor Sondheim is stuck
He's thoroughly f****d
With the worst voice in movies
Oh, Steve,
Pray for him
Pray for US!!!!

[NYC4Life]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 4:42pm

roquat it is clever, but saying Helena is not an actress is joke. She is one of the best. Have you seen Howards End, A room with a view, the wings of the dove (should have won the oscar), fight club, margaret's museum, conversations with other women. Helena works well in Burton films, she happens to be his partner. She worked with him before they even got together. Besides Sondheim said he got final say in Lovett. I get you did not like her in this film but don't bash this woman as an actress. She has worked really hard since the 80's and has done beautiful work in the uk.

[roquat]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 4:51pm

I've seen all of the films you mentioned, as well as several others (except "Conversations") and I have an extremely hard time telling those performances apart. "Fight Club", a bit, but she still has that drained, anemic look that seems to be her "thing." As I looked over those credits again, I couldn't even summon up a memory of her smiling in any one of them--does she know how?

And I'm very tired of people trying to explain away her utter lack of singing ability. If Tim Burton had directed a GYPSY remake with Bonham Carter as Mama Rose, would they be making the same excuses? Lovett doesn't even require a great voice, just someone who can act through song and change and modulate their tones effectively. All of Bonham Carter's vocals as Lovett were thin, piping, and monotonous--it would have been better if she'd just recited all the lyrics.

[NYC4Life]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 5:29pm

I am not trying to convince you she is a good actress. i am just trying to explain that she is a hard working actress with a lot of acclaim. You clearly don't like her and you have the right to that opinion but don't write her off as bad. You just don't see it. I have the same problems with Hilary Swank but i can respect the fact that people like her and clearly she moves some people. Tim Burton would not direct Gypsy and Carter would not play Rose so that has nothing to do with what we are talking about. They don't fit the project. To each his own. I thought whe was outstanding, and gave a really honest and moving performance.
Updated On: 12/24/07 at 05:29 PM

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 6:19pm

Helena is an excellent film actress.

[StickToPriest]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 8:13pm

"I did my audition
On Tim Burton's mattress
'Cause I'm a nonsinging
Nondancing nonactress"

Wow. I was going to go through and state why I think your previous points aren't valid, but after reading that I'm not going to waste my time.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 8:15pm

Since when does Mrs. Lovett dance?

[artsamore]

Posted: 12/25/07 at 12:18am

Wow....I am really just amazed by these debates. It has been a long time since I have seen a performance that I truly thought was lacking(Helena in Sweeney)and really had nothing to offer in regards to an interpretation, but so many others are claiming to love. Usually there would be at least something for me to say..."okay I see that" but not with Helena. She gave a performance lacking depth, motivation and purpose yet she is getting raves by a lot of you.

Is she getting a pass because she has done(moderately)good work in the past? Is it just blind praising of a classic musical on the big screen now being introduced to the masses? Or is it because since so many of us here are such musical theater diehards that someone like Helena...."I am so brooding and dark and dirty and intense" interests you because she is so different. Since she is the total opposite of glitzy, fake smiling, jazz hand musical fare, is that why she is being praised here? It truly is amazing.

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/25/07 at 12:50am

Is it THAT hard to believe we are praising her because we genuinely enjoyed her performance? You're making excuses for why we are liking her performance. Some of us were really moved by her Lovett, it's not that hard of a concept to digest.
Updated On: 12/25/07 at 12:50 AM

[Brick]

Posted: 12/25/07 at 12:56am

its called an opinion.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 12/25/07 at 2:45am

artsamore, its just as hard for me to understand how somebody could watch Helena's performance during the "Not While I'm Around" sequence and not be moved or at least recognize superb acting when they see it.

Maybe you should see the film again. Or maybe we will all just have to have different opinions.

[A Director]

Posted: 12/25/07 at 4:01am

In the not too distant future, musical comedy mavens will be able to take the DVD of a movie like Sweeney Todd and plug in any actor your little heart desires for a particular role. You could have Liza, Patti, or even Mr. Travolta play Mrs. Lovett. You will be able to add back all the songs the film makers didn't get your permission to cut. For a little extra money, you will be able to adapt the movie to the style of a director you want. You can have the Mel Brooks Sweeney, the Rob Marshall Sweeney, the Clint Eastwood Sweeney, the Wes Anderson Sweeney, etc.

I have seen the Tim Burton Sweeney and liked everything about it. I did not want to see Johnny Depp play the role like Len, George, Michael. I wanted to see his take on the role. I did not want to see Helena play Mrs. Lovett like Angela or Patti. I wanted to see her take on the role.

If you think there was no humor in the movie, you weren't paying attention. The way the humor was played onstage would not work in a movie. You need to learn the difference between acting onstage and acting on camera.

Sweeney Todd is a great musical and like all great plays and musicals, there are many ways to play the characters. The joy of seeing different productions is to see what each actor brings to and finds in the characters. The is no joy in seeing the same thing from production to production. It is one thing to say you prefer one actor's interpretation to another actor's interpretation; it's another thing to dismiss an actor's take on a role because it didn't match another actor's take. I am not interested in museum theatre.

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 12/25/07 at 4:15am

I honestly can't see why people have to make excuses for my (and everybody else's) deep admiration for Carter's Lovett. As I have said before, to me, she takes the movie right from under Depp and walks away with it. Mind you, you can do a search from the time Helena Bonham Carter was announced through a few months ago and you will read I sounded like a broken record saying how much I thought it was a mistake casting her as Lovett, how I thought she would be lackluster, etc. So no, I did not go into the film as a fan of her previous work.
I've seen the movie twice now and find her to be one of the most complete, moving, thrilling performances of the year (if I were an Oscar voter, I'd have a hard time deciding between her and Ellen Page...yes, I would vote for her over Marion Cotillard without thinking about it twice). God, what a revelation! I'm a Carter convert.

[A Director]

Posted: 12/25/07 at 4:28am

Ray - Don't cast your Oscar vote until the nominations are announced.

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 12/25/07 at 4:36am

Oh, Carter won't be nominated...but you know what I mean.