Sweeney is to Brokeback Mountain as Pajama Game is to Crash- Page 3

[JudasIscariot]

Posted: 6/16/06 at 8:56am

Well, I like murdering barbers, but I hate gay cowboys.

There is nothing COMPLEX about Brokeback Mountain, it's the same as any other love story except its a GAY love story, appealing to queens all over. Nothing special about that.

Sweeney on the other hand is a work of art.

[Fiction Writer]

Posted: 6/16/06 at 9:32am

Brokeback Mountain was pretty artsy, if you asked me. The story just sucked.

[iHeartMyGeek]

Posted: 6/16/06 at 10:02am

I don't think that it's true that homosexuals are the only minority group that it's still okay for people to make fun of publicly. Mentally and physically handicapped people don't seem to get a break from all these stupid comedies. THey're still widely made fun of and as a visually impaired person it bothers me immensely

[iHeartMyGeek]

Posted: 6/16/06 at 10:09am

And sorry--my last comment was pretty off-topic...I'll respond to the actual topic.

I agree with the original statement. I'm sorry, I hate The Pajama Game. And I adore Sweeney Todd. THEre's much more to it.

Honestly, I haven't seen either Crash or Brokeback Mountain (no matter how immature it sounds, they're both rated R and I'm not seventeen) but I did purchase Brokeback Mountain the audiobook and I think it's completely untrue that it's not a complex story. I've read the story many many times and it is one of the most exquisitely written and pieced-together pieces I have ever seen (and I myself am a writer). Brokeback Mountain did have the Oscar stolen from it. But, as a bit of consolation, I was glad to see that Heath and Jake won Best Kiss at the MTV Movie Awards. As immature, again, as that sounds, it shows that the American teenagers are making progress and we are, after all, the ones that are soon going to take over. Maybe Americann will turn a new leaf in just a couple short decades.

[LifeoftheParty227]

Posted: 6/16/06 at 10:11am

Nothing complex?
Are you kidding me?
You must be only looking on the surface of the film because it is incredibly deep if you look beneath the "gay cowboys" and "same-old love stories".

Every line of dialogue is covered with meaning aimed towards issues going on today and massive amounts of symbolism.

[robbiej]

Posted: 6/16/06 at 10:42am

Would I be the ONLY person on this board that thinks both the Oscars and the Tonys got it right?

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/16/06 at 10:46am

Brokeback Mountain and Pajama Game deserved to win.

And whoever said Brokeback Mountain made them feel bad for being gay....why? Are you a gay cowboy in North Dakota in the 60s? Did you personally identify with the characters and their situation? No film is going to make me feel bad for being gay. I have never felt bad about being gay. The film was about those characters in that particular setting during that particular era. Personally, I found most episodes of Queer as Folk more detrimental to the gay community than Brokeback Mountain.

As for Pajama Game, it was a sparkling revival of a classic show that received mostly rave reviews and has played to a sold-out run. The Sweeney revival relied so heavily on its concept, opinions were sure to be divided. Reviewing the track record of the Tonys, it's really not that big of a surprise. I was never convinced Sweeney's concept was necessary or accessible. It is interesting and theatrical, but setting the show in an asylum in 19-whatever, played out by musically inclined inmates, using symbolically suggestive props, is going to guarantee raves or awards. A Sondheim score does not mean an automatic Tony. LuPone and Cerveris to not mean automatic Tony. The concept received a Tony for the director, the tricky orchestrations received a Tony, and that's highly commendable. But it is entirely possible to love the concept, but be more entertained by another show.

In the past, I have usually found that the winners of Best Score and Best Book should have won Best Musical (with the exception of Ragtime), but in this case, I agree with the winners of Best Musical and Best Revival.

But Brokeback, the most international critically acclaimed and award-winning film of the year should have won Best Picture.

"Mentally and physically handicapped people don't seem to get a break from all these stupid comedies."

And if they are heterosexual, they still have more rights than gays and lesbians, of which state and federal governments have clearly shown that they support discrimination.

"There is nothing COMPLEX about Brokeback Mountain, it's the same as any other love story except its a GAY love story, appealing to queens all over. Nothing special about that."

The fact that it is a GAY love story is what made it more complex. Its characters were dealing with a more specifically defined struggle than most hetero love stories. If you put the love story in context with the setting and period of the film, it was extremely complex for those characters (which was brilliantly illustrated in their performances). Its overwhelming international success means that it appealed to more than just "queens" and as clearly demonstrated on this board, not all "queens" found it appealing. That derogatory statement you made seems to illustrate why you probably didn't like the film.

Updated On: 6/16/06 at 10:46 AM

[iHeartMyGeek]

Posted: 6/16/06 at 10:53am

I never said that physically and mentally handicapped people had less rights. The comment made was that homosexuals are the only minority group left that it is okay to ridicule and make fun of publicly. I disagree with that, as pretty much every Ben Stiller or Jack Black movie would prove to be true, along with a wide array of TV shows, skits, and other films.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 6/16/06 at 11:00am

Except for a few performances, Crash sucked.

[LifeoftheParty227]

Posted: 6/16/06 at 11:03am

here here, Mister Matt. Well said

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/16/06 at 11:03am

"The comment made was that homosexuals are the only minority group left that it is okay to ridicule and make fun of publicly."

True, but that can also be said of most minorities, which are often ridiculed in popular entertainment in a variety of ways.

[iHeartMyGeek]

Posted: 6/16/06 at 11:05am

This is true. Only further proof that homosexuality is not the only ridiculed minority.

Don't get me wrong; I have nothing against homosexuals. I'm one of the biggest advocates of gay rights I know, and I have many openly gay friends. I also have nothing against any other minority group. I'm just trying to stand up for my own here.

[Jon]

Posted: 6/16/06 at 11:59am

Actually, the group most open to ridicule is fat people.

[Fiction Writer]

Posted: 6/16/06 at 12:29pm

doodlenyc, which performances did you like?

Posted: 6/16/06 at 1:56pm

No. Unlike Brokeback, Sweeney did not get practically across the board raves. Unlike Crash, PG wasn't hated by many critics. Crash was a manipulative piece of dreck aimed at people who read People Magazine for its deep articles. PG never took itself seriously or pretend to be more than it was, a top notch production of a fun show. The reviews for Crash and BBM differed greatly than the reviews for PG and Sweeney. There's not comparison, imo.

[NYC4Life]

Posted: 6/16/06 at 2:00pm

THEY ARE OPINIONS! Why cant people on Broadwayworld of all places understand that. Just because you are not moved by something does not mean it did not change someones life. Ok you think Crash sucked but you dont know what it did for someone else. Even if the reason it helped someone else has nothing to do with the themes of the movie. It is art people. Stop bashing art. Say it did nothing for you and why and then move on! As for the person who said "Well, again, my problem is that many voters didn't even watch Brokeback." Many voters did not see the constant gardner and I thought that was brillant and it did not get a best picture nom. Many did not see alot of the movies, that is how it works it is not fair but what can you do it is a little gold man! Brokeback was an excellent movie to me and a little trophy is not going to change how i feel about it. The people who are not going to see brokeback are not going to see it period! An oscar wont chang their opinions. We all get upset when someone does not win that we think deserve it, but clearly other people thought the person that won did deserve it, so why cant we respect that they saw something in it we did not.

[MTVMANN]

Posted: 6/16/06 at 2:07pm

"John Lloyd Young is to Jaimie Foxx as
(blank) is to Adrien Brody"

Any Tony Winner who won because everyone else nominated in their category had already won (at least once) before.

Posted: 6/16/06 at 2:16pm

I think the point is that there were three well-known Academy members (Tony Curtis and the other two escape my memory right now) who openly admitted to not seeing BBM BECAUSE of its homosexual storyline. That's a big difference than an Academy member simply not fitting in a movie screening. And those are three members who admitted their discrimination; there were probably more. Updated On: 6/16/06 at 02:16 PM

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 6/16/06 at 2:16pm

oops, sorry, didnt mean to drop out of sight, Fiction.

I loved Sandra Bullock, I thought she deserved a nomination. I also loved Thandie Newton and Terence Howard.

I thought the intent behind Crash was well meant, but ended up an unbelievable sappy mess, imo. It also felt like a sledge hammer with it's tolerance message. It bothers me that Spike Lee has been making MUCH better films than this for decades. Do The Right Thing was a masterpiece, imo.

[Kringas]

Posted: 6/16/06 at 2:19pm

Were Foxx and Brody ever in direct competition?

[Fiction Writer]

Posted: 6/16/06 at 2:26pm

My opinion doesn't mean much, but my favorite performance was the little Mexican girl, and my favorite scene is a tie between the cape scene, and when um (I don't want to spoil anything) that scene that takes place out from the Mexican's house, with the daughter, and the Middle Eastern (He might not be Middle Eastern. It's been a while.)

I liked Ludacris too.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 6/16/06 at 2:30pm

You opinion means as much as anyone else's here, Fiction.

[MTVMANN]

Posted: 6/16/06 at 2:31pm

Foxx and Brody were not nominated in the same year.

[LifeoftheParty227]

Posted: 6/16/06 at 2:31pm

i agree with you doodlenyc, I feel that the message concerning stereotypes was thrown at us and repeatedly hit us over the head -- "RACISM IS BAD!". But that's just me, I enjoy movies that are much more subtle.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 6/16/06 at 2:35pm

I hated the "he felt me up, but then saved me" crap. I have NO idea why Dillon was nominated. He was fine, but just fine.

I did like the scene between the father and daughter, even tho it was obvious what it was setting up. Both actors were quite good. I didnt have a problem with any of the acting. It was the plot and story that made me feel like I was being preached to. I also felt like I knew what was going to happen at every turn.