#26
Posted: 5/13/12 at 2:40pm
So a show that is "adequate" should have success on Broadway? Broadway is the epicenter for professional theater. I don't think there is room for "adequate."
To all those who Bash Ghost... — Page 2
#27
Posted: 5/13/12 at 2:49pm
I just saw the show preview...it looked like the show was done in a concert-like setting.
Is that how the show is done...or was that just how it appeared on the video?
Is that how the show is done...or was that just how it appeared on the video?
#28
Posted: 5/13/12 at 2:57pm
I haven't seen it, but the awful score/lyrics were enough to drive me away. Cheesy, cliche, uninspired and amateurish. There's nothing snobish about calling crap crap.
#30
Posted: 5/13/12 at 6:29pm
Amen to that.. Crap ad nauseum
RIP Legally Blonde
and soon
Ghost and Sister Act.
RIP Legally Blonde
and soon
Ghost and Sister Act.
#31
Posted: 5/13/12 at 6:55pm
Well, I was laughing at someone calling a show that they haven't seen crap.
<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES
#32
Posted: 5/13/12 at 7:08pm
"The movie GHOST is a classic"?
We have very different definitions of the word classic,
CITIZEN KANE is a classic, GHOST was a popular soapey date movie.
We have very different definitions of the word classic,
CITIZEN KANE is a classic, GHOST was a popular soapey date movie.
#33
Posted: 5/13/12 at 7:45pm
I am always startled by the glee with which posters project "RIP" onto shows as personal wish fulfillment, wanting the quick demise of entire enterprises that employ hundreds of people -- and notably -- entertain masses who don't share your opinion. Wishing a show will "RIP" is your prerogative. But wanting a SISTER ACT or a GHOST to fold sooner rather than later to satisfy a personal preference or in response to a single evening's dissatisfaction strikes me as the heighth of arrogance. Forget the fact that this is an industry, not just a venue to celebrate an art form, more fundamentally, not everyone who comes to NYC wants to see PORGY AND BESS or SUNDAY IN THE PARK WITH GEORGE. I have no interest whatsoever in SISTER ACT. But I walked by the theater one Wednesday afternoon when the matinee was letting out, and I saw hundreds of smiling happy people, many of who then raced toward the stage door. I still don't want to see it, but I hope it runs until the last person who wants to see it can buy a ticket. There's plenty of room for art and commerce, always has been and always will be.
And to those of us who either work in the business or have many friends who do (and full disclosure: I have a close friend involved in GHOST), this sort of hoping-for-mass-unemployment is especially unpleasant to read, even if offered as a glib appraisal of the quality of a given show. This is a business. It supports many people, (yes, many artists), provides everything from health insurance to basic living expenses.
I respect differences of opinion, and have strong ones myself. But if you want the best to stay on the boards, support the shows you feel are artistically deserving of your good faith -- and dollars. If you don't like a show, don't go, and don't recommend it. But death wishes, even for Broadway musicals, are ugly.
And to those of us who either work in the business or have many friends who do (and full disclosure: I have a close friend involved in GHOST), this sort of hoping-for-mass-unemployment is especially unpleasant to read, even if offered as a glib appraisal of the quality of a given show. This is a business. It supports many people, (yes, many artists), provides everything from health insurance to basic living expenses.
I respect differences of opinion, and have strong ones myself. But if you want the best to stay on the boards, support the shows you feel are artistically deserving of your good faith -- and dollars. If you don't like a show, don't go, and don't recommend it. But death wishes, even for Broadway musicals, are ugly.
"I'm a comedian, but in my spare time, things bother me." Garry Shandling
Updated On: 5/13/12 at 07:45 PM
#34
Posted: 5/13/12 at 8:14pm
No one is wishing unemployment on actors. Especially me.
There is nothing wrong with wanting the best shows for those actors and the best shows for those audiences.
Ghost is simply not the best show for actors or audiences.
If I were a dancer in Ghost, I would be grateful for my paycheck ----but pissed off that I am upstaged by visual effects best left for the screen.
Imagine being the next Gwen Verdon or Gene Kelly or Bebe Neuwirth or Helen Gallagher or Kristen Chenowith never to be seen because you are upstaged by video projects coming at you milliseconds at a time. I can't remember even one face in that chorus. This show is the anti chorus line.
I say give actors their due and their paycheck; but let's not have them compete with scenery.
That being said, I feel the wonderful ensembles of Bonnie and Clyde and Leap of Faith were cheated of longer runs. Wish they could have lasted longer. At least those two shows had redeeming music and performances in them.
There is nothing wrong with wanting the best shows for those actors and the best shows for those audiences.
Ghost is simply not the best show for actors or audiences.
If I were a dancer in Ghost, I would be grateful for my paycheck ----but pissed off that I am upstaged by visual effects best left for the screen.
Imagine being the next Gwen Verdon or Gene Kelly or Bebe Neuwirth or Helen Gallagher or Kristen Chenowith never to be seen because you are upstaged by video projects coming at you milliseconds at a time. I can't remember even one face in that chorus. This show is the anti chorus line.
I say give actors their due and their paycheck; but let's not have them compete with scenery.
That being said, I feel the wonderful ensembles of Bonnie and Clyde and Leap of Faith were cheated of longer runs. Wish they could have lasted longer. At least those two shows had redeeming music and performances in them.
Updated On: 5/13/12 at 08:14 PM
#35
Posted: 5/13/12 at 8:29pm
Well said, Auggie, and I agree wholeheartedly.
Those who take delight in seeing a show that they don't like do poorly, or close, are indeed arrogant. And to state as fact, rather than opinion, that a show is not good, is arrogance reaching a new height.
Those who take delight in seeing a show that they don't like do poorly, or close, are indeed arrogant. And to state as fact, rather than opinion, that a show is not good, is arrogance reaching a new height.
<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES
#36
Posted: 5/13/12 at 8:37pm
you don't always need to see a show to know it's not any good. I didn't need to see Transformers 3 to know it was crap, and I don't need to see Ghost. I said "based on the music", which in a musical is a vital element. If I couldn't stand that, I can give my impression of the show. I fully admit to not seeing, and I'm not going to.
As for the wishing people out of work argument, people should want to produce quality work. I do design. I want to design for GOOD productions. If they're bad, I can't be upset when they fold.
As for the wishing people out of work argument, people should want to produce quality work. I do design. I want to design for GOOD productions. If they're bad, I can't be upset when they fold.
#37
Posted: 5/13/12 at 8:38pm
I just saw the show preview...it looked like the show was done in a concert-like setting.
Is that how the show is done...or was that just how it appeared on the video?
I'd say the latter. There are some dance sequences that have lighting and projections that resemble a concert, though. For the most part, there are sets and furniture and props like any other show.
Is that how the show is done...or was that just how it appeared on the video?
I'd say the latter. There are some dance sequences that have lighting and projections that resemble a concert, though. For the most part, there are sets and furniture and props like any other show.
#38
Posted: 5/13/12 at 8:48pm
"As for the wishing people out of work argument, people should want to produce quality work."
And "people" do, as you will learn. If you're fortunate enough to work with some of them. You "do design?" So you're a designer with industry employment ambitions? Try walking into a meeting when producers, potential collaborators, all of whom love the art form as much as you profess to, when they'are auditioning your portfolio and ideas with the intention of offering you a design position -- and telling them all "You people should want to produce quality work!"
And then wait for their response. But perhaps not the job offer.
And "people" do, as you will learn. If you're fortunate enough to work with some of them. You "do design?" So you're a designer with industry employment ambitions? Try walking into a meeting when producers, potential collaborators, all of whom love the art form as much as you profess to, when they'are auditioning your portfolio and ideas with the intention of offering you a design position -- and telling them all "You people should want to produce quality work!"
And then wait for their response. But perhaps not the job offer.
"I'm a comedian, but in my spare time, things bother me." Garry Shandling
#39
Posted: 5/13/12 at 9:17pm
you know what? who cares. Not worth arguing with.
<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES
Updated On: 5/13/12 at 09:17 PM
#40
Posted: 5/13/12 at 9:28pm
How did this become a discussion on procuring a design job on a show? If so.....
You simply present your portfolio; show your drawings and pictures; have some references; perhaps some reviews; be personable; have some exciting ideas. Leave and wait for the phone to ring.
And then hopefully, the creatives won't screw it up. And it will magically mesh together and be something you are proud of.
You simply present your portfolio; show your drawings and pictures; have some references; perhaps some reviews; be personable; have some exciting ideas. Leave and wait for the phone to ring.
And then hopefully, the creatives won't screw it up. And it will magically mesh together and be something you are proud of.
#41
Posted: 5/14/12 at 12:15am
There is no hatred or bashing from this theatergoer. I saw Ghost not too long ago and as I left a friend asked me what I thought, and I realized that I couldn't conjure up much more feeling for the musical I'd just witnessed than "meh." I thought about it for awhile, weighed its pros and cons and realized my initial reaction was right. Not a bad show, but not a very good one either. Just Meh.
#42
Posted: 5/14/12 at 12:41am
I'm not going to call GHOST a guilty pleasure, because I actually don't feel guilty at all. I flat-out like the show. And I don't think that makes me any less of a Broadway fan or makes my opinion any less valid than the critics or theater snobs on this board. Just because you didn't enjoy it (or refuse to see it because you don't think you will), doesn't mean that other people aren't loving it, and it doesn't make your opinion any more valid.
I left the matinee yesterday and heard comments from people in the audience calling it "the best thing [they'd] ever seen on Broadway" or saying that they "can't believe it didn't get more Tony nominations". I don't even necessarily agree with either of those statements, but the show is resonating with audiences and most of the average theatergoers I know (that is to say, people who don't dedicate their lives to bitching about shows on messageboards) have enjoyed the show and found it worth the price of a ticket. It's not Pulitzer Prize winning drama, but that doesn't mean it doesn't deserve to be on Broadway. Especially considering some of the other long-running crap out there.
I left the matinee yesterday and heard comments from people in the audience calling it "the best thing [they'd] ever seen on Broadway" or saying that they "can't believe it didn't get more Tony nominations". I don't even necessarily agree with either of those statements, but the show is resonating with audiences and most of the average theatergoers I know (that is to say, people who don't dedicate their lives to bitching about shows on messageboards) have enjoyed the show and found it worth the price of a ticket. It's not Pulitzer Prize winning drama, but that doesn't mean it doesn't deserve to be on Broadway. Especially considering some of the other long-running crap out there.
#43
Posted: 5/14/12 at 12:44am
Will be in NYC mid July....I want to see it, but all these reviews are making me wonder if it will still be running then. I hope so!
#44
Posted: 5/14/12 at 12:47am
To Baskestcase: Good for you. The main thing is if YOU enjoyed your time at the theatre watching Ghost, the rest doesn't matter. Your opinion isn't any less valid than the critics, theater snobs, or myself. We all went to the theatre and (I hope) just reported what we saw and how we felt about the show. Really am glad you had a good time there even though I really can't say the same. Different strokes.
Updated On: 5/14/12 at 12:47 AM
#45
Posted: 5/14/12 at 12:54am
That was my point, Matt. It is different strokes, but wishing something to close just because YOU didn't enjoy it (and that's a general YOU, not you specifically) is ridiculous. That just seems to be the common mentality on this board "I didn't enjoy it therefore it is crap and should close".
#46
Posted: 5/14/12 at 1:07am
Completely agree. It's been said before many times, but here it goes: each person has their own unique tastes and preferences. For instance, I hated Mamma Mia, but a lot of people (including some of my friends) love it. Others who did't straight outright adore it at least have an appreciation for the behind the scenes work that goes into creating a show.
I too hate it when someone says that "such-and-such a show" should cloud simply because it goes against their personal taste. Yes YOU might not have found merit in it, but someone else (maybe many other people) did find something they enjoyed.
I too hate it when someone says that "such-and-such a show" should cloud simply because it goes against their personal taste. Yes YOU might not have found merit in it, but someone else (maybe many other people) did find something they enjoyed.
#47
Posted: 5/14/12 at 6:17am
This conversation happens every time a substandard show (by MOST accounts) hits the boards.
No one is WISHING for out of work actors/techies/ushers, etc. They are wishing for better shows worthy of their talents. What about the show that comes in next? Or the actors that are currently out of work? Worthy performerss will find another job. It's the nature of the businesss, and it's the ugly reality of it.
We just don't want to root for inferior work to succeed. IN ANY FIELD. Yes, that's an opinion, and ticket buyers win out: if enough people WANT to see it, it will run. If not, it won't. Even if someone WISHES it to close, that will not affect its outcome.
(BTW....I see very few people actually ASKING/WISHING for any show to close.)
No one is WISHING for out of work actors/techies/ushers, etc. They are wishing for better shows worthy of their talents. What about the show that comes in next? Or the actors that are currently out of work? Worthy performerss will find another job. It's the nature of the businesss, and it's the ugly reality of it.
We just don't want to root for inferior work to succeed. IN ANY FIELD. Yes, that's an opinion, and ticket buyers win out: if enough people WANT to see it, it will run. If not, it won't. Even if someone WISHES it to close, that will not affect its outcome.
(BTW....I see very few people actually ASKING/WISHING for any show to close.)
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#48
Posted: 5/14/12 at 6:35am
well said dramamama.
But it all comes down to opinion, as always.
Those who like the show want it to do well. Those who dislike the show want it to be gone so something better can come in.
The whole "employment" factor in these discussions is really a silly issue. If you want to have a discussion on the economics of employment this is probably the wrong place to do it. The extent of that conversation on this board comes down to what dramamama just said above.
No one wants to see people out of work. I think that's pretty much a feeling that I can say applies to the vast majority of posters here (if not everyone, everywhere)
But who doesn't withhold their patronage from a business which they feel offers an inferior product or service? It doesn't make anyone a bad person for wishing a show would close. And trying to shame them into feeling guilty just comes off as missing the point.
But it all comes down to opinion, as always.
Those who like the show want it to do well. Those who dislike the show want it to be gone so something better can come in.
The whole "employment" factor in these discussions is really a silly issue. If you want to have a discussion on the economics of employment this is probably the wrong place to do it. The extent of that conversation on this board comes down to what dramamama just said above.
No one wants to see people out of work. I think that's pretty much a feeling that I can say applies to the vast majority of posters here (if not everyone, everywhere)
But who doesn't withhold their patronage from a business which they feel offers an inferior product or service? It doesn't make anyone a bad person for wishing a show would close. And trying to shame them into feeling guilty just comes off as missing the point.
....but the world goes 'round
Updated On: 5/14/12 at 06:35 AM
#49
Posted: 5/14/12 at 6:48am
If you have a terrible experience at a hotel, restaraunt or retail shop -- don't you tell others? Don't you want others to be 'warned'? Of course you do. This is no different, really.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#50
Posted: 5/14/12 at 7:30am
It's very different. I don't see how you can compare a terrible experience at a hotel, restaraunt or retail shop with not liking a show. The former would usually be an objective one (inedible food, poor service, a less-than clean room, etc), things that are inarguably bad - where an theatrical experience is almost wholly subjective.
I have never felt the need to "warn" others off a show. It's presumptuous. As many have stated here, everyone's tastes are different. To use your example, Passing Strange. I really hated it and would have walked at intermission if I hadn't been comped - but outside, there were people, people I knew, in tears. It had obviously touched them deeply. Who was I to tell them I thought what they'd just seen was an indulgent piece of junk?
If my opinion is asked about a show, I'll give it - but I absolutely do not ever tell someone to stay away. Conversely, unless I know the person really well, I never say "You gotta see this", either.
I have never felt the need to "warn" others off a show. It's presumptuous. As many have stated here, everyone's tastes are different. To use your example, Passing Strange. I really hated it and would have walked at intermission if I hadn't been comped - but outside, there were people, people I knew, in tears. It had obviously touched them deeply. Who was I to tell them I thought what they'd just seen was an indulgent piece of junk?
If my opinion is asked about a show, I'll give it - but I absolutely do not ever tell someone to stay away. Conversely, unless I know the person really well, I never say "You gotta see this", either.
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