What makes Evita so hard for the actress playing Eva?- Page 2

[ClapYo'Hands]

Posted: 8/26/12 at 11:03am

I really, really love Patti but it pisses me off how much she bitches about Lloyd Webber but still sings his music.

[The Scorpion]

Posted: 8/26/12 at 3:49pm

For example, she has publicly stated when asked what was her reaction to landing the role of Eva Peron, that she cried. Not from joy but because she wanted to be in a Mamet play instead, which she had to reluctantly turn down because of Evita.

What's funny about that story is I read another one (I'm trying to think where now, it was either a book about Hal Prince or ALW or Tim Rice) which quoted its subject-source as saying when Patti got the part, she was so happy she grabbed the nearest chair and lifted it high in the air to celebrate. Which rather contradicts her story. Unless, of course, she was lifting that chair up and planning to slam it down on the floor/on Hal Prince's head in frustration.

That any actress taking on this role will unmercifully be compared to Patti LuPone.

In the US, most definitely. In the UK, definitely not, unless the person comparing is a savvy theatre/Evita fan. The OBC isn't even sold here; it's Elaine (and latterly, Elena) who won the accolades here and it's Julie Covington whose version of DCFMA is etched deeply into people's minds.

To be honest I have heard recording of her final night as evita and i actually thinks she sounds BETTTER than the recording. her Buenos Aires was out of this world!!You could tell it was easy for her to sing i by than.The last performance of "rainbow High" gave me goosebumps for 2 minutes.It was clear she was going to miss the show and that she was giving it her all one last time.

I've heard this recording too but I didn't enjoy it. The score by that point was played WAY too fast; I do think it was played, conversely, too *slowly* in the original London production but the tempo of Patti's final night is ridiculous. If I didn't know the lyrics beforehand, I would not have understood a single word of 'Rainbow High'. I find the current Broadway revival a happy medium tempo-wise.

Agree it's a shame some of the Broadway crowd haven't embraced Roger's performance. Oh well, if I were in her shoes, I'd be more than content with the raves from London and the Olivier nomination.



Updated On: 8/26/12 at 03:49 PM

[broadway guy]

Posted: 8/26/12 at 6:42pm

I'll agree that the last performance had the music wayyy to fast but you have to admit patti was on fire!!! LOL. I remember patti saying she fought with the conductor on the music all the time.You wouldn't be able to understand ANYONE if they had the music that fast.

"For example, she has publicly stated when asked what was her reaction to landing the role of Eva Peron, that she cried. Not from joy but because she wanted to be in a Mamet play instead, which she had to reluctantly turn down because of Evita."

Ive never ever heard of that story.Sadly the only person who knows that story is patti so we will probally never hear the full truth on that one :/. I imagine she would be wetting her pants with joy because she landed the lead in a broaway musical directed by harold prince and with music by THE andrew lloyd webber.who wouldnt be happy about that? so i doubt that story is true but i guess we will never know for sure

The sad thing with the elena roger debate is that People want to see a replica of patti's performance but the ironic thing is patti hated when cast members told her "thats not how elaine did it" or "elaine did this".So why should elena have to live up to patti and elaine's performances? Patti would always start from scratch when developing a character and thats what elena did also.Are they very different?YES.Is elena bad?OF COURSE NOT!Patti will always be my favorite but i love what elena has brought to the character.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 8/26/12 at 7:24pm

Patti didnt belt ALL the way through but i get your point. She belted more than any other evita because she understood the fire in eva and the passion.Im not sayig other eva's didnt undertsand the character im just saying no one took as many punches as patti did for evita.

broadway guy, I'll concede that "ALL" is probably overstating the case, but I attended enough auditions for Evita (my husband was the assistant casting director in later years) to say that truly belting the high notes from deep in the chest was very much what they wanted from girls in the American productions. It's both a sound that signifies the character and a sound we associate with Latin American female singers. (We're probably thinking of Mexican ladies, but that's how we Anglos think...er,thought.)

Now did individual performers save their voices by "mixing" from time to time. I believe you if say so.

And Patti LuPone may have been the first to belt through the score, but I doubt it was her idea alone. I know the notion survived her.

***

As for Miss LuPone's "horrible" experience, as I recall it, she was the toast of New York during her time in EVITA. If she wasn't singing the National Anthem for the NY Rangers, she was riding in the Macy's parade. Now maybe she was exhausted, maybe she cried herself to sleep at night. But she certainly managed to look like she was having the time of her life.



Updated On: 8/26/12 at 07:24 PM

[My Oh My]

Posted: 8/26/12 at 7:26pm

I read that in a TheaterWeek article. I still might have it. I will scan it and post if I do.

You never really know with Patti, though. She can say things that sound brutally blunt and her face indicates it's lighthearted in nature. When reading stuff off a page, it almost always comes off as real serious business especially when she tends to go on and on about it. Not complaining, btw. LuPone can do no wrong. <3

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 8/26/12 at 7:28pm

I think it's perfectly possible that she was exhausted much of the time and the things that were exciting when she was 30 seem trivial when she looks back now. Isn't that true of most of us? :)

[broadway guy]

Posted: 8/26/12 at 8:01pm

"As for Miss LuPone's "horrible" experience, as I recall it, she was the toast of New York during her time in EVITA. If she wasn't singing the National Anthem for the NY Rangers, she was riding in the Macy's parade. Now maybe she was exhausted, maybe she cried herself to sleep at night. But she certainly managed to look like she was having the time of her life."

Heres the way i look at it: I played the cat in the hat right after an achilles tendon tear.My doctor cleared me but I was so afraid to go on stage every night because with such a phsyical role I was afraid of re injuring it again.It was a really stressful experience but that doesnt mean I didnt love when kids came up to me and said "your the cat in the hat"!

"But she certainly managed to look like she was having the time of her life."

Exactly! At times I bet she was having the time of her life,wouldnt't you? But living with that constant fear that something could go wrong on a high note and you could lose something that you love and hold so dear? Yeah the fame she got helped the pain,but she risked her voice every night on that stage.Thank god she had a chorus member help her backstage with the score all the time.

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 8/26/12 at 8:04pm

I've certainly read a few articles that were published during her run in Evita in which Patti lamented about how sad and lonely her personal life was. I don't recall her talking about how difficult the score was, but she definitely talked about how draining the whole experience was.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 8/26/12 at 9:09pm

I'm not going to repeat specific rumors from three decades ago, but suffice it to say, LuPone may have been lonely, but industry gossip held that she was seldom alone. (Nor need she have been. I wasn't exactly a virgin back then and I ain't knocking her.)

***

Thank god she had a chorus member help her backstage with the score all the time.

I don't know what that sentence means, broadway guy. Do you mean she had a sub to sing her high notes or just somebody to carry the heavy pages for her?

As I said above, my understanding from watching rehearsals and talking with Paul Gemignani in later years is that they didn't want girls who could belt the entire score with ease. They wanted voices that sounded great at the top but also sounded as if they couldn't go one note higher. I'm sure that alone put quite a strain on a number of throats.

I had one friend, an excellent actress, who was seen for the part at least 20 times over the entire run. She always made the call backs, but was never cast. I thought it was because she had a freak voice and could belt from the lowest notes in "What's New?" to the highest notes in the score and at least a third higher. So when she got to "is one of you", it sounded great, but not like she was at the top of her range--because she wasn't. (I eventually saw her do the role in stock and she acted and sang it beautifully; but it didn't have the same sound of raw ambition as it did with the girls who could just barely reach the high notes.)

[Leadingplayer]

Posted: 8/26/12 at 9:22pm

I think her joy turned to anger during the run....in interviews from the time she seems a little angry at the lack of other offers she got...I think she thought she'd be elevated to a film career after Evita (like Streisand) but it never happened.

She also seems to struggle with the wanting to be seen as a serious actress YET is sometimes thought of as a singer. (plus there is the alleged cocaine abuse which I'm sure altered her thoughts and memories.)

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 8/26/12 at 9:25pm

I can't speak for LuPone, but the rest of us were all trying cocaine in those days. (I was luckily subject to nose bleeds, so it never became a habit for me. Nothing ruins a good high (or a good date) like blood flowing down the front of one's shirt.)

[broadway guy]

Posted: 8/26/12 at 9:28pm

"Thank god she had a chorus member help her backstage with the score all the time."

sorry I'll explain Better. Patti was having a hard time singing the score so one of the chorus members in the show agreed to help her and practice the notes with her back stage before every performance.I forget the name of the guy.He would work with her before every performance going over the tricky notes to help buiild her stamina.He helped her sing the role correctly without hurting herself. He was basically her un paid,unofficial vocal coach who also was in the chorus.

In an interview she has said that the only reason the part got easier was because that guy in the ensemble practiced with her before each performance.

Basically the whole ensemble hated her so she was grateful this one person from the ensemble agreed to help her.




Updated On: 8/26/12 at 09:28 PM

[The Scorpion]

Posted: 8/26/12 at 9:34pm

Re the story mentioned by My Oh My about Patti crying because she wanted to do the David Mamet play instead, it's not 'rumour' per se as the woman herself has stated this. She wrote it on the Q&A section of her website where she responds to fans' questions.

It seems to me that the association of Evita with relentless belting is very much one that is prevalent in the States as opposed to elsewhere. Perhaps the women who followed Patti were all told to emulate her performance, which, as broadway guy has said, is precisely what LuPone herself resented when told to emulate Elaine Paige. Which is why I have a feeling Patti would love Elena's take on the role, as her performance is different enough from both Paige and LuPone yet IMHO retains all the qualities that constitute a great Eva: determination, ambition and bucketloads of star quality.


Updated On: 8/26/12 at 09:34 PM

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 8/26/12 at 9:38pm

Very interesting story, broadway guy. Thank you very much!

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 8/26/12 at 9:40pm

Patti was having a hard time singing the score so one of the chorus members in the show agreed to help her and practice the notes with her back stage before every performance.I forget the name of the guy.He would work with her before every performance going over the tricky notes to help buiild her stamina.He helped her sing the role correctly without hurting herself. He was basically her un paid,unofficial vocal coach who also was in the chorus.

His name was David Vosburgh, and Patti thanked him when she won her Tony for Gypsy, saying that she forgot to mention him when she won for Evita. (he was the first person, after her family, that she thanked)

And according to this article, he was paid $1,000 for serving as her teacher, and Hal Prince thanked him for saving the show.
Vosburgh finally gets thank you

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 8/26/12 at 9:41pm

How many actors do you know, Scorpion? LOL. That's just a joke, but in my experience, it's a rare actor who can really put his or her ego aside to appreciate someone else's interpretation of a "signature" role. It happens, but it's rare.

But maybe enough decades have passed...

[broadway guy]

Posted: 8/26/12 at 10:09pm

No problem GavestonPs.That's so interesting,I never knew he was paid and that hal prince said that.Thats awesome.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 8/26/12 at 10:17pm

I didn't know it either. Thanks to givemevoice for the info!

[My Oh My]

Posted: 8/26/12 at 10:22pm

"Re the story mentioned by My Oh My about Patti crying because she wanted to do the David Mamet play instead, it's not 'rumour' per se as the woman herself has stated this. She wrote it on the Q&A section of her website where she responds to fans' questions."

BINGO! That's where I read it. I wasn't sure if it was from a magazine or elsewhere, all I knew was that I definitely read it and she herself had written it or said it. Thanks for refreshing my memory.

That led me to remember the TheaterWeek piece was about the film version, with LuPone saying she hadn't yet seen it and wasn't really interested because of the way it appeared the film toned down the bite and instead seemed to canonize her.

Updated On: 8/26/12 at 10:22 PM

[StageManager2]

Posted: 8/26/12 at 11:13pm

In this Ernie Manouse innerVIEWS (from 2004), Patti discusses Evita experience, the difficulty of the role, and mentions David Vasburgh:


"Evita" discussion begins at 7:20

[The Scorpion]

Posted: 8/27/12 at 7:07am

How many actors do you know, Scorpion? LOL. That's just a joke, but in my experience, it's a rare actor who can really put his or her ego aside to appreciate someone else's interpretation of a "signature" role. It happens, but it's rare.

But maybe enough decades have passed...

Well, Elaine Paige said she thought Elena Roger was "terrific" in the revival, which she initially hesitated about seeing in London but then ended up attending and declaring that she "really loved it". Maybe Patti might be as gracious. Maybe not.

[broadway guy]

Posted: 8/27/12 at 9:49am

I think Patti has seen it.In an interview she said she was trying to find time to see it.I really think she would like elena roger's portrayal of eva.There's picture's of them together at the tony awards.Also patti's co star/friend Michael ceveris is in it so im sure she came to support him. who knows!

[Soaring29]

Posted: 4/17/16 at 4:34am

I wouldn't necessarily say that it's Patti's hatred of Lloyd Webber that causes her to talk about how difficult Evita was now-  She does not complain about him or criticize him excessively, she talks about the difficulty of singing it as well as the fact that everyone seemed unhelpful to her at the time. I'm sure she exaggerates a little bit, but I don't doubt the experience was a difficult one for her. That score is hella demanding, not to mention the acting and physical challenges of the role.  

The extreme  vocal difficulties of the role  make me wonder why they didn't bring in a  fully qualified voice teacher  to help her sing the score correctly. But I'm guessing the vocal pedagogy back then  was not advanced enough to really teach  a woman to belt to that extreme and to sustain the ranginess of the role.  That kind of high belting was not nearly as  common then as it is now. Most voice teachers would have probably recommended that she sing it in a head voice dominated sound, which I for one, am sure the producers and the musical directors  did not want.   

[dramamama611]

Posted: 4/17/16 at 4:42am

(Do you realize this thread is nearly FOUR years old?)

[Auggie27]

Posted: 4/17/16 at 9:20am

This is now a Lupone thread, but perhaps that makes sense.  It's the single best explication of a chapter of her career in her autobiography, and she is painstakingly, blisteringly honest about the entire experience, particularly her troubles with the singing. Any fan of the score and show, regardless of an opinion on Lupone, should read it.  She makes it very clear how treacherous it was to negotiate nightly, as noted above, an entire week's vocal performance was charted early in a Monday night, if she didn't start the evening properly. She didn't enjoy singing it until Australia.  The "Buenos Aires" solo rendition on the Tonys was during the Australian era, and you can hear how she conquered it.

 

I'm always interested in this subject, since I saw the very first Broadway preview.  If memory serves, September 10, 1979 (close enough).  I was mid-mezz.  I had been a fan of the concept album, and my first impression of Lupone (I'm not a musician) was: solid if not exciting; she had moved much of the score into her head.  She sounded much more legit that night than she eventually did.  But the thrilling performance she eventually gave wasn't entirely present. (Look at the reviews: she was not widely admired when the show opened, but then neither was the show.)  I went back in December, on a Saturday evening, and she was more persuasive.  But the honesty in her book is worth noting: it wasn't an easy run for Lupone.