Why didn't Norm win a Tony for Porgy & Bess?- Page 2

[Jarethan]

Posted: 5/1/23 at 6:13pm

binau said: "Dollypop said: "Complaining about an award that was handed out 11 years ago?

I don't understand this obsession with Tony Awards."

Gurl, I probably think about Bernadette being snubbed in Follies daily. Maybe I’m obsessed, mainly I need to get a life. But I love it and don’t want to."

I generally love BP, but I thought she was terrible in Follies, change that to not got.  She started so overwrought that there was no place to go; also, at least the two times I saw her, she was straining noticeably, which detracted from the experience.

WHATEVER HAPPENED TO STEVE KAZEE??

[MemorableUserName]

Posted: 5/1/23 at 6:54pm

He had a kid with Jenna Dewan and seems happy, but hasn't really worked much since leaving Pretty Woman after the Chicago tryout. Hopefully he's doing well and satisfied with his life and career.

[George in DC]

Posted: 5/1/23 at 8:49pm

He didn't win because the voters thought he did not give the best performance of the year. Get Over It.

[kdogg36]

Posted: 5/2/23 at 12:38pm

George in DC said: "He didn't win because the voters thought he did not give the best performance of the year. Get Over It."

I don't understand comments like this. Discussing the merits of past Tony nominees would seem to be a canonical use for a Broadway chat board, not something to chastise people about.

Updated On: 5/2/23 at 12:38 PM

[binau]

Posted: 5/2/23 at 12:42pm

It's also kind of boring - the same way that if someone asked 'why did X show close in 2 months' and someone said 'because people didn't buy enough tickets'. Well, yeah that's obvious. It's implicit that what we're really asking is speculation of why didn't people buy enough tickets, or in the case of Norm Lewis - speculation of why people voted for Steve instead of him. 

In any case, I think the rich discussion from 99% of people is exactly what I was looking for and told me everything I feel I need to know so thank you all. 

[joevitus]

Posted: 5/3/23 at 5:29pm

BJR said: "ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "[...] and I think Porgy was seen as an underdog after Sondheim's op-ed lambasting the revisions (revisions that he had not yet seen)."

He didn't criticize the revisions, he criticized the way the creative team were discussing the revisions and P&B itself. And it was a letter to the Editor. The team was regarding it as flawed and in need of their help. He took umbrage to this, since P&B was one of his favorite pieces (and it didn't need their help).

But your point is correct that, even by the end of the season, this was was misremembered just this way and it indeed turned them into an underdog. Silly."

Everything Sondheim objected to--the absence of DuBose Heyward's name in the new title, the ditching of the goat cart and other aspects of the work--was spot on. And the eventual production staged the ending in such an absurd way as to suggest that Porgy and Bess have a happily ever after when he goes off in search of her. That not only kills the whole point of the show and fundamentally undermines their characters, but it removes the pathos (you could even call it the tragedy) of one of the strongest endings any Broadway show/opera has ever had.

 

[binau]

Posted: 5/3/23 at 5:33pm

Excuse my ignorance but how should it end?

[joevitus]

Posted: 5/3/23 at 6:43pm

binau said: "Excuse my ignorance but how should it end?"

I don't remotely consider you ignorant.

But the intended ending of the opera:


Porgy, devoted to Bess despite the fact that she has proved she will drop him them moment someone with a more powerful hold over her comes along, sets out in his goat cart for New York, a goal clearly impossible to reach (he doesn't even know where it is except that it is "way up North, past the customs house"--and obviously a goat cart isn't going to take him all the way from South Carolina to Manhattan), and he leaves committed to his search, which we realize is a futile one. They will never reconnect. The very lines of the final number, that it's going to be a long journey, but God will be there to take his hand suggest a subconscious realization that he is likely to die before he finds her (Porgy is an older man, even if he rarely cast age appropriately--the physical stamina of the vocal demands usually meaning a younger, stronger man is cast in the role). It's very powerful--his refusal to give up, his commitment to his ideal vs. the reality of what is to be. It's a moment to fill the audience with awe.

Updated On: 5/3/23 at 06:43 PM

[bwaylvsong1]

Posted: 5/3/23 at 6:50pm

I’m a huge fan of Lewis’, but his performance as Porgy lacked spark/presence and as others have noted was overshadowed by other cast members in smaller but showier roles.  I didn’t see Kazee, but would have awarded Burstein or Jordan over him (while Raines had a thankless role).  I also thought Esparza was fantastic in “Leap of Faith” that season.

[binau]

Posted: 5/4/23 at 2:08am

joevitus said: "binau said: "Excuse my ignorance but how should it end?"

I don't remotely consider you ignorant.

But the intended ending of the opera:


Porgy, devoted to Bess despite the fact that she has proved she will drop him them moment someone with a more powerful hold over her comes along, sets out in his goat cart for New York, a goal clearly impossible to reach (he doesn't even know where it is except that it is "way up North, past the customs house"--and obviously a goat cart isn't going to take him all the way from South Carolina to Manhattan), and he leaves committed to his search, which we realize is a futile one. They will never reconnect. The very lines of the final number, that it's going to be a long journey, but God will be there to take his hand suggest a subconscious realization that he is likely to die before he finds her (Porgy is an older man, even if he rarely cast age appropriately--the physical stamina of the vocal demands usually meaning a younger, stronger man is cast in the role). It's very powerful--his refusal to give up, his commitment to his ideal vs. the reality of what is to be. It's a moment to fill the audience with awe."

Ok fair enough, yes that is haunting and not what I took from this production where it did just seem like he would eventually find Bess lol. 

[Jeffrey Karasarides]

Posted: 5/4/23 at 8:45pm

I wrote a whole piece about the 2012 Best Lead Actor in a Musical race last year. From what I speculated, Norm probably finished in fourth place at best (above Ron Raines).

Tonys Flashback: Best Lead Actor in a Musical (2012)

[SFFrontRow]

Posted: 5/5/23 at 8:41pm

I saw all the performances that year.

I think Norm was great but did not win as that production was a bit of a controversy with the changes and Norm was heartfelt but maybe not as strong as the role required (but I thought it added more resonance to the production).

Danny Burstein and Ron Raines - the show had closed and frankly, the show is really all centered on the women. Danny was good but not spectacular and Raines was meh. Jeremy Jordan in Newsies - meh.

I think Kazee won for a couple of reasons... the show was popular with the voters and was just gaining steam during the voting - his background story was touching (especially with the recent passing of his mother) - the chemistry between him and Milioti was good which elevated the story and I thought his performance was pretty strong within that chemistry.

[BenjaminNicholas2]

Posted: 5/6/23 at 12:46am

I saw this production a few times and each time Norm was having vocal issues.

While he was fine, it wasn't his best role.  It seemed to go hard on him.