Wildhorn's Wonderland is Coming to Bway!- Page 2

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 2:20pm

TheatreFan4 were you even around for Frank's hey day back in the '90s? You didn't see it in Tampa or Houston, and you're judging it off the concept album, which is purposely over-pop -ed.

Hey day?

None of his shows have ever recouped. If that is what a hey day is then I would hate to see him at his lowest point.

[philly03]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 2:22pm

They've been doing readings every couple of weeks for the writers & select cast only, but I do remember Nikki being involved in plenty. Perhaps she is part of something else. There having I believe an actual industry reading in October. TBPAC will produce it again Jan 4 - Jan 16 in Tampa at the TBPAC.

I know it's unlikely, but there is also a shot that White Christmas will be back for Nov - Jan. Also don't forget the Marquis had that bizarre Soul of Shaolin a few years back as well, and seeing as it's part of the hotel, I suppose they could arrange for another unique experience.


I still find it humorous that people come on this thread and trash this show & Frank Wildhorn, but have no problem defending Spiderman or saying that "Catch Me If You Can" will be a huge hit in New York.

Again, I've never called this show flawless or the best piece of theatre ever. Was it ready for New York when it was in Tampa? No. Houston? Probably not. But that's the point of having an out of town try-out.

Perhaps Frank doesn't care about being a financial flop -- That hasn't stopped Sondheim and plenty of other composers. If people keep coming back to the show or have an obvious following, I don't see why the reviews are the only thing that should determine it. Where we have to pay $125, I'm going to see something that interests me, it's up to the ticket buyer to decide what will stay open & close at it's core.

I think WONDERLAND is very much this team's: We're doing it our way, if you don't like it, oh well, move on. It's a big hit, it's a big hit. If not, we tried.

There is an actual orchestra for this show. I'm sure there's plenty that will be upset we can't be graced with a 3 piece synthesize, 1 drum, and 2 woodwind band for the masterpiece that was Dracula! (Kidding)

[Kad]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 2:26pm

"I still find it humorous that people come on this thread and trash this show & Frank Wildhorn, but have no problem defending Spiderman or saying that "Catch Me If You Can" will be a huge hit in New York."

The teams behind those have a lot better pedigree than the team behind Wonderland. It's comparing apples to wax oranges.

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 2:29pm

I know it's unlikely, but there is also a shot that White Christmas will be back for Nov - Jan.

No, There is already a seasonal show & they won't try to compete with Elf.

I still find it humorous that people come on this thread and trash this show & Frank Wildhorn, but have no problem defending Spiderman or saying that "Catch Me If You Can" will be a huge hit in New York.

The team behind Hairspray & Lion King vs. The team behind Dracula & The Civil War.

[ColorTheHours048]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 2:33pm

I don't even understand why we're arguing this. The show is atrocious. Not even good bad, like SHOWGIRLS. It's eye-rollingly bad.

[philly03]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 2:34pm

Touche kad.

No, they are the team of Svengali (which was never produced after the Asolo run because of Jekyll & HYDE) and The Civil War. You could probably even throw Jekyll & HYDE in that mix, minus Jack Murphy. Greg & Jack had NOTHING to do with DRACULA (As I suspected, you really aren't educated with Wildhorn)

I wouldn't personally endorse it, but there is a possibility they could come back again. It's not like they're going to say NO if it's possible to make money. You never know!

[Kad]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 2:36pm

The thing is, if Wonderland had opened last season, it may have had a chance. But this season it's going up against Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson, Scottsboro Boys, Women on the Verge, Book of Mormon, Catch Me if You Can, Spider-Man, Priscilla, Sister Act, and Elf- not all for box office, mind you, but for prestige come award time. And many of these are already tested with critics and audiences- quite positively.

This is just a bad business move. I mean, come on.

[newintown]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 2:40pm

Although no musician can defend Wildhorn (as reported before, his arrangers/conductors often have to rewrite his work, and his output is so basic as to make Richard Rodgers sound like Schoenberg), his contribution is not the biggest problem with this worthless turkey. It's the inane, drug-addled, meandering, pointless, unfunny, illiterate, baby-killing, racist, Satan-worshiping, Fox News-watching, Teletubby-licking BOOK that turns this evening into a mess of misery and hopelessness.

[romgitsean]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 2:40pm

*kills self*

WHY. WHY FRANK WILDHORN.

Poor Lewis Carroll. He must be rolling around in his grave. Wonderland butchers his work so badly, and all for the sake of money. Let's not even lie. There's no art involved.

And yes, this is coming from someone who loves Lestat- but at least I can admit that Lestat don't do the books justice in the slightest. On the subject of Linda Woolverton, she also butchered Alice...her and Frank Wildhorn should team up. That way, it would be a medicore book AND score! Yay!

PS: To whoever said there should be a Dream Child musical...there is one in process.

Updated On: 8/3/10 at 02:40 PM

[philly03]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 2:45pm

I think Frank Wildhorn got a slight undercover compliment out of newintown.

EDIT: I also would like to note that Frank has no problem writing full scores. The allegations ever heard are as to the first notes of songs and then when singers cannot handle the final notes, where the arrange generally will decide which notes to cut out or speed up. if you watch the J&H DVD you can see many of the final notes have been shortened or fixed (especially for the Hoff & Coleen Sexton). However, Frank has no problem writing a good 50 or 60 songs per show, so...the end.

I actually think the music is wonderful, I don't see what people expect to see with a Wonderland musical. Yes, I know we all don't like Go With the Flow/some random influences thrown in there, but I think the score is a fine listen. It's entertaining staging to watch, but I agree it's the book.

I don't know if they didn't like the way the original book writer (Phoebe Hwang) wrote it, or perhaps this team was giving her a hard time and too many "ideas" into it, or what, and she couldn't stomach the direction it went into. I believe in Houston they made it one of those "all a dream" ordeals. Oh brother...

I still say Frank's pieces live on from the MUSIC, not the book, which in nearly every show has been troublesome. Also important to note: This doesn't (or it didn't) have a huge budget, so it's not overly done with all the unnecessary flair associated with Frank's shows.
Updated On: 8/3/10 at 02:45 PM

[morosco]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 2:46pm

"Although no musician can defend Wildhorn (as reported before, his arrangers/conductors often have to rewrite his work, and his output is so basic as to make Richard Rodgers sound like Schoenberg), his contribution is not the biggest problem with this worthless turkey. It's the inane, drug-addled, meandering, pointless, unfunny, illiterate, baby-killing, racist, Satan-worshiping, Fox News-watching, Teletubby-licking BOOK that turns this evening into a mess of misery and hopelessness."

Are you Julia Sugarbaker?

[newintown]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 2:55pm

I can only try, morosco. But, as Virginia Woolf pointed out in To the Lighthouse, admittedly in a different context, "the attempt is all."

[morosco]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 2:57pm

lol

[ColorTheHours048]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 3:13pm

I actually think the music is wonderful, I don't see what people expect to see with a Wonderland musical.

What?! Alice in Wonderland is arguably the greatest children's story ever written and one of the most well-regarded pieces of fiction in existence. I expect to see a score and book that match that kind of regard. Anything less is a disservice to the story Lewis Carroll wrote.

Frank Wildhorn is one of the biggest jokes disguised as a musical theatre composer that I've ever seen. WONDERLAND is just another lifeless effort of his. The music is amateur and the lyrics... are you kidding? I haven't seen the show, so I can't speak to the production or the book, but I can't imagine anything overcoming such a childish score. And I can't believe producers are willing to throw away their money on a show that will definitely flop.

Ridiculous.

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 3:18pm

"I can't believe producers are willing to throw away their money on a show that will definitely flop."



Three words: In. My. Life.

[ravnquest1]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 3:19pm

lord, another half baked Wildhorn floating turd for broadway. Who keeps giving him money for these shows?

[mshetina]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 3:31pm

@romgitsean: If Carroll's corpse didn't start spinning after Tim Burton's abortion of a movie, I doubt something as inconsequential as a Wildhorn musical will disturb it.

[BroadwayBen]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 3:31pm

I saw it at the Alley. It was absolutely awful, and I don't care how much they "rewrite" the central premise is dull and predictable and the lyrics and direction will always be the same.

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 3:32pm

Really...what does it matter? If he's gotten enough interest meaning 'financial backing' to take Alice to Broadway...well, good for him. What have you invested or created in this project? If you don't like it...don't see it. But to prejudge anything before it happens always makes me question a person's sensibility.

If the critics hate it...so what's new about that? If they like it, OK good for Frank & Co. Do you think Frank thinks about his popularity with people who have no dealings with him?

I've known Frank for a long time on various levels. He has given some of my theater friends a lot of work, and exposure that has opened doors for some of them. He continues to do what he loves.

"I feel my work is a success in so far as I get to wake up every morning and do what I love to do more than anything in the world. When I was a teenager in a band playing, everything was great. I still don't feel any different. I still wake up with the same love and passion as when I did this with the band. Because my life in music has let me live the kind of life that I've loved, and I've been able to share it with others and take care of the people I love, in that regard, yeah, I feel that we've been a success".~ Frank Wildhorn, 2004.

BTW, My opinion of Frank Wildhorn or his work doesn't matter. The bashing of people and their efforts does matter to me.

Updated On: 8/3/10 at 03:32 PM

[GatorNY]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 3:32pm

Hey Newintown, just curious...is it filled with red state tea party stuff?

I'm up for checking it out when it opens....I mean I suffered through Shrek so I'm sure I could get through this. I am one of the 9 people who liked Cry-Baby, so who knows. If nothing else, I can always find someone in the company who's performance I can appreciate (Spencer Liff, Carly Jibson etc.)

[beautywickedlover]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 3:34pm

I guess the Nederlander Organization wants to bring younger audiances to Broadway again.

[philly03]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 3:45pm

Thanks PB Ent for coming to my aid!

Some comments:
ravnquest1 - How can you call this half baked when it hasn't even hit Broadway yet? If anything Frank's shows are OVER baked!

ColorTheHours048 - I would hardly call Wonderland "lifeless." So you're saying if Stephen Sondheim or some other (really big WOW) composer like Andrew Lippa wrote the SAME exact stylings, it would be totaly fine? That's bogus.

Frank's music isn't "amateur," but I can see people have to put him down for something. Also Wonderland is a CHILDREN'S STORY. Therefore, what's the problem of it being "Childish"? You have clearly only listened to the concept album, which again, as all Wildhorn concept albums are produced in an overly pop style.

Jack Murphy wrote the lyrics, NOT Frank Wildhorn. Seems to be a misconception every time Frank gets brought up - he does NOT write the lyrics.

Don't forget - Lewis Carroll makes a surprise visit. Therefore he's on stage and not spinning in his grave. Wow I can;t believe I said tht. He'd probably be spinning in hiis grave before the show even starts once we find out if Dacal is starring.

Remember this is a work "inspired by," not an adaptation or basis from the novels.

Whose to say it will definitely flop? It's got a "brand name," decent reviews out of town, and a dedicated cast & creative team. I think that says a lot more than the Addams Family. We haven't even seen the casting yet, who knows what could happen.


And as PB Ent said, Frank's been great for the community. His shows brought new (& well, quite frankly dangerous and bizarre) crowds to the theatre, principles himself on bringing theatre back into the central light of America, and even when he fails (& it can be a huge failure) he doesn't stop writing.

So what, people are supposed to hate him because his lyricists aren't the best, his book writers may not be the best skilled in the profession, or because a group of NY Theatre critics dismiss his work because it is popular and therefore cannot be good? Or because he writes for his fans?

If anything, Frank is commendable. He's had one snafu in his career which was the debacle over the DRACULA concept album, which again was an effort to bring the music to the fans. He's very genuine, and keeps writing.

And look what, he's going to have his 5th Broadway musical within the past 14 years, with countless others lined up for potential transfers not just in New York but around the globe.

EDIT: I also HIGHLY doubt Frank's writing MUSICAL THEATRE for money. Ha!!!! Frank writes because he likes to write, for his fans and again to promote theatrical music. Frank is certainly a millionaire with several #1s pop hits, as well as other chart hits. Updated On: 8/3/10 at 03:45 PM

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 3:59pm

philly~ Thanks for the thought, but I am not crowning or crucifying Frank. Nor am I defending, disceting anything he's done. He's a smart business man and a creative person who 'always has a show sitting on a shelf waiting to be explored when the time is right'. Apparantly Alice found financial legs.

[philly03]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 4:05pm

To each his own PB Ent.

Since people seem to be baffled -
The idea of "Alice" as an adult was started by Greg Boyd & Frank Wildhorn discussing the possibilities of no other than Linda Eder starring in the title role, now all grown up. Her daughter, Chloe was kidnapped and Alice has to save her, the marriage and Wonderland itself. Apparently this is very Peter Pan, so I assume why it was scraped. Obviously the Linda/Frank split occurred and other sources were explored, as well as big European success for Frank with DRACULA, Rudolf & Carmen.

Then it was renamed WONDERLAND & began in 2007 as a Workshop put together at a camp that Frank did a Masterclass with at Tampa University or Southern Florida...whichever one is across from TBPAC I believe, with Brandi Burkhardt in the title role and special guests Rob Evan (Cheshire Cat), Tracy Miller (mad Hatter) & Michael Lanning (Caterpillar) singing four songs. The CEO/Owner of TBPAC approached Frank to be the first composer for their new program, "The Broadway Genesis Project," which aims to help composers get their world premieres taken care of by way of TBPAC and help produce it onward.

[GatorNY]

Posted: 8/3/10 at 4:25pm

I still want to know what it is about the book that characterizes it as "Fox News-watching and Teletubby-licking.

"I feel my work is a success in so far as I get to wake up every morning and do what I love to do more than anything in the world."

I can only speak for me, but I hope that I can say this about my career someday. Just sayin.