Wildhorn's Wonderland is Coming to Bway! — Page 4

Never saw Wonderland and I'm not a huge fan--or hater of the man. Did see Bonnie and Clyde. For a musical which was thrown together in a few weeks it was respectable. The thing is, however, there was one three scene section in the second act which was just fabulous --really good by any standard. By the time it arrived, I was ready to dismiss the whole thing and then Bam!

And then I'm wondering if something quite good is possible with more work and inspiration.

Maybe he spent too much time on the wrong musical.

Updated On: 8/4/10 at 02:09 AM

Also Wonderland is a CHILDREN'S STORY. Therefore, what's the problem of it being "Childish"?

You know, just because something is intended for children does not in any way mean it should be "childish." In fact, the best childrens' books aren't at all childish.

I must say, completely irrelevant to the actual show, but romgitsean, your comment on Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass made me happy because, even though I enjoy the Disney Alice from years back, and late 90s television movie, I wish for once someone would write an adaptation that didn't liberally draw from both but rather stayed with one the whole way through.

Everytime a new Wildhorn musical arrives, the same tired "arguments" are trotted out: Frank versus musical theatre "composers"; anyone who thinks his work is lazy is a snob; he writes musicals for the people, not the critics. And 30 years ago, he wrote a BIG pop hit, so he understands people...Yawn.

Here's the truth: His shows are always lazy. The craft is lazy. The characters are thin. The music has no surprises. You get what you know you're getting...He doesn't really engage story or audiences in any credible way. There are no real risks, only flashes of energy. Ultimately, its all very shallow.

Because everything has been a financial flop (except for Jekyll, I think) his shows don't really stick with the public. They don't love them or are grateful they saw them. They use them to pass the time, and get the meagerest of pleasures. Just enough so you feel you've seen a show, but not enough that you actually care.

I love posts like the one from minicko. Let's take it apart, shall we?

"How many shows that you wrote been on broadway?" We'll ignore the strange, Bush-worthy grammar, and just reply, "Since when does one have to write a Broadway show before one is allowed to comment on work?"

"... I can't believe the disrespect you are showing to a man who spends his life trying to thrill theater goers." You could also describe Wildhorn as a man trying to make money in the theatre. I'm not saying he's not an altruistic artist, giving to his audience with no expectation of reward, but he probably isn't.

"The show ... does have a great message..." No, it doesn't. It has a sentimental, clichéd message.

"... wait and see what the critics think." Why? Why should I wait to hear the opinions of people who may very well know less than I do about theatre? Why should I wait to hear the opinion of anyone whose opinion has no more validity than mine?

Perez Hilton posted this on his website:
http://perezhilton.com/2010-08-03-coming-to-broadway-an-alice-in-wonderland-musical

Interesting to see the different comments from people...

& what's with the new tagline? "WONDERLAND: A New Alice. A New Musical Adventure."

LOL. This thread is really funny if you insert "Ripley" into the text each time it reads "Alice."

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The level of deep-seated hatred on here is strange.


I'm not Wildhorn's biggest fan but I don't react to him as if he killed my puppy and ate his innards.

Having said that, honestly who cares? If audiences think Wonderland is as bad as all that then it will flop and close and that's that.

In the meantime I'll focus on the shows I am excited for which is just about the rest of the season.

Oh, and for the record I've seen 2 Wildhorn shows J&H and Scarlet.
J&H was truly awful, mostly b.c of the staging though imo.
Scarlet was fine. I enjoyed it well enough. Didn't change my world or anything but it was a diverting evening of theater with some nice music.

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Updated On: 8/4/10 at 01:34 PM

"Kad Footloose ran for 777 performances, a great run for that kind of show and did not recoup"

Jekyll and Hyde ran for more than twice that- 1,543 performances.

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The score to Catch Me If You Can has not been in the public (except for what, that one random download?). Therefore, I'll believe it when I hear it legally. Frank Wildhorn also has a pretty good track record for the MUSIC, if even from the spotlight of the public. Look at many of today's top theatre stars, who plenty record & play in concert Frank's songs.

A lot of "Catch Me..."'s reviews from what I remember were along the likes of "It's spectacular when it's good, and horrible when it's bad," and plenty called it slow & heavy.

Addams and more importantly Lippa have had plenty of their defenders on here, just not as vocal.

Re: JEKYLL & HYDE not Recouping -

There were many producers. Remember that the show ran a YEAR LONG Pre-Broadway national tour, which used entirely different sets & costumes. When it came to Broadway, many of the producers stayed, but they had to pay for an entirely new $7 million production without having fully paid off the tour. Atleast this is what has been told. The stunt casting celebrities came later, and while Bach & Wagner were paid very well, it's been rumored that David Hasselhoff took a paycut from them to "live his dream" or whatever he always used to say.

"What was up with Jekyll, then? Was it stubbornly remaining open despite houses that weren't full? Was it really that expensive to maintain?"

No, the house sold in the 85%-95% most weeks it's first two years starring Tony Award Nominee (& many would have said robbed, as he won Drama Desk & Outer Critics Circle awards) Robert Cuciolli and Christiane Noll, and obviously sold incredibly well with Linda Eder. Once the original cast left, it went down, and the grosses weren't terrific during the end of '99, as Luba Mason & Anastasia Barzee weren't necessary kind or into the whole idea of super fanatics. The celebs came and Jack Wagner actually sold the show incredibly well, Sebestian Bach brought a lot of people back, and the Hoff got an interesting crowd. The producers planned to cast I believe Donny Osmond (who recorded "This is the Moment" a few months before), but he couldn't do it until March or April. The Hoff's contract was ending in January, and he was very open to pursuing having it filmed for archive purposes - so that's what happened, they closed the show with him.

It ran when the big hydraulic sets came in, and the nut was pretty high for the grosses it was making. It closed about $1 MIL away from recouping.

It ran for over 1500 performances...I'd say that's a pretty big hit, if even not financially. Many of the same producers also put out the second and third national tours, and the show eventually recouped with it's non-Equity tour. It's been played all over the world.

It's confirmed - Janet Dacal will reprise as Alice, Darren Ritchie (who was fantastic) as White Knight / Jack, and Karen Mason as the Queen of Hearts.

More info here:
http://www.tampabay.com/features/performingarts/strazs-wonderland-is-bound-for-broadway/1112793


The Nederlanders were "moved" says the article by the major book rewrites.

The budget was also bumped up to a whooping $14 MIL, as opposed to the $3-$5 MIL in Tampa/Houston.

Updated On: 8/4/10 at 05:09 PM

I am sure bashing will come to me but I really don't care too much.
I am of the kind of person who enjoys many kinds of music. For every nuanced Sondheim song that I love, I also love an overblown drama ballad. I enjoyed the music to Wonderland and have not seen the show. I will not comment on a show unless I have seen it.
That being said. It is a shame to read how many people are so quick to bash him. Last time I checked most of you have not have not had a hit musical on Broadway (or maybe ANY musical in that case.)
Let's all draw in our claws and try and not be so "catty" about it all.
If you don't like the show, fine but saying thing like "He's Crap" is really just a cop out of how you feel. Explain yourself.
Okay.. Now back to your bashings and crass comments. (and I am sure some will be directed at me but oh well.)

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