Wildhorn's Wonderland is Coming to Bway!- Page 5

[GatorNY]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 6:02pm

"I am of the kind of person who enjoys many kinds of music. For every nuanced Sondheim song that I love, I also love an overblown drama ballad."

I'm like you JRybka. I've never seen any of his shows, so won't comment either. I do very much enjoy listening to "In His Eyes" and "You Know Who I Am" when they pop up on my iPod shuffle.

Your dog is really cute BTW.

[tazber]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 6:16pm

I have a lot of his shows on CD and don't hate any of them.

Even The Civil War sounds good as a concept album.

I don't have any shame in saying I can get into his music.

I still think it's ridiculous to open a show that is almost guaranteed to get panned in such a competitive season, but I don't begrudge them for trying.

[philly03]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 6:25pm

I always wonder what it would have been like if Wonderland opened last season, even with it's flaws. Or something like Cry-Baby or A Tale of Two Cities. However, I think Frank knows at this point (along with everyone) that he's getting panned by the major critics regardless.


I think people didn't like The Civil War because it has no story. It gets boring after a while obviously, but the music is pretty good if you're in the mood for the country, gospel, rock & roll-ish feel.

Again, I'm glad more people are saying he's capable of writing good music. He obviously is, since he is still around. A huge hunk of people on this board are uneducated sheep who just go with the negative opinion, and Frank always suffers. A shame, considering he's written some of the most memorable tunes, or atleast in my opinion (obviously).

[Brick]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 6:30pm

It is strange they keep trying his shows, when every one has been so unanimously panned and all were commercial failures.

Oh, well. If they have the money...

[perfectliar]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 6:51pm

Philly - "Hit" and "flop" are financial terms and nothing more. If a show recoups, it's a hit. If it doesn't, it's a flop. J&H lost money, so it's a flop.

And I'm not really sure how you can say that Wildhorn "has a pretty good track record for the MUSIC" when The New York Times, the most influential of the critics, described his last Broadway score as "monotonous pop recitative" and his only Tony-nominated work as "one bland current of generic pop. The overall effect is of being imprisoned not in some theme-appropriate cell in Andersonville but in a jukebox stocked entirely with B-side selections." How exactly does that translate into a "good track record?" Because he wrote one hit song 30 years ago and enough belty ballads to fill cabarets for decades? Just because something is popular does not mean it's good.

[GatorNY]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 7:05pm

"...theme appropriate cell in Andersonville..." LOL, and I mean literally.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 7:12pm

Just read every single post in this thread (yes, I have some time to kill) and I have to say there are a lot of you saying you don't like Wildhorn and really going about it in a nasty way, just for the sake of being nasty and then not really backing your sentiments up with an educated opinion so I can't really take those very seriously at all.

I'm not a Wildhorn fanatic but I will give the man his props and say that I enjoyed his scores for Jekyll & Hyde and The Scarlet Pimpernel.

He's gotten a bad rap because his shows, even when they are on the verge of opening on Broadway or are already running (as was the case with Pimpernel) are almost always "works in progress".

Jekyll & Hyde had a massive set and costume overhaul just before opening in NYC which inflated it's budget and I'm not even going to go into the endless tinkering that went on with Pimpernel. It looks bad, as if there's really no confidence in the show that it constantly has to be "re-worked".

I'm not familiar with any of his other scores but I will say this about Wonderland, it looks to be another one of those Wildhorn shows that will be in perpetual "work in progress" mode.

It's book was built around a bunch of songs Wildhorn had already composed.

I'm not familiar with the Wonderland score either but it's premise alone doesn't interest me. It will be interesting to see how it's journey to Broadway unfolds....if it even makes it that far.

[Eris0303]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 7:24pm

I've never actually seen a Wildhorn show so I will reserve judgment on that front. But, I do enjoy what I have heard of his music.
I would hazard to say that I am not the only Linda Eder fan on this board. I have all her albums and love many of the songs on those albums. A good deal of the songs are Wildhorn songs - songs from shows he was working on or songs he wrote especially for her.

[BroadwayBound115]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 7:45pm

Not to change the subject, but can he bring Bonnie & Clyde instead?? I've listened to a few songs and seen the press clips from La Jolla. It looks so good! I hope that Bonnie & Clyde does come after its Florida run because I think that it might be the first Wildhorn musical popular with the critics.

[ljay889]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 7:47pm

http://www.tampabay.com/features/performingarts/strazs-wonderland-is-bound-for-broadway/1112793

[philly03]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 7:52pm

OK, fine it's a "flop-hit" to be more specific.

The New York Times also called Frank Wildhorn "Critic Proof." Also, "Mr. Wildhorn has also brought radical changes to Broadway." "He does not claim to be a sophisticated tunesmith."

Quoting Frank, in regards to music: "Now the divide is so enormous, the two have little to do with each other. We want to bridge that gap and to restore the health of the American musical."

Here's some other nice quotes for you, I wish I had time for more:
"And it sounds good, with a score that ranges from vaudeville to Broadway bombast, jazz, and variations on the last four decades of pop music." - Variety, on WONDERLAND

"the Frank Wildhorn score boasts one insanely catchy pop song after another." - St. Petersburg Times WONDERLAND

"The diversity of Wildhorn’s score—is undeniably impressive." - LA Times BONNIE & CLYDE

"Frank Wildhorn's surging melodies" - Billboard Magazine JEKYLL & HYDE

"Knocks the roof right off the theatre!" - Gannett Newspapers JEKYL & HYDE

"Composer Frank Wildhorn provides a bright and tasty score that brims with robust romance and melodies to hum on the way home!" - Michael Sommers SCARLET PIMPERNEL

"One big number after another!" - Roma Torre NY1 SCARLET PIMPERNEL

Clearly, with Frank's runs he has shown that NY Times reviews aren't 100% absolute needed.


Eris - Linda Eder will be performing along side Frank Wildhorn (on piano), and European theatrical Super stars Pia Douwes & Thomas Borchert in a new "Frank Wildhorn & Friends" concert in October in Vienna. She is part of Halluejah Broadway concert that was filmed/recorded in Europe - she will sing "Electricity" from Billy Elliot, "What I Did for Love" and the Wildhorn tunes "Someone Like You" and "Gold" (from Camille Claudel).

Also, she is featured on Frank's upcoming concept album - Tears of Heaven (also featuring Christiane Noll, James Barbour, Rob Evan, Michael Lanning, Morgan James, Jackie Burns & more) which she will be the lead on the recording (and sings a song with Christiane Noll again!). Luckily for the haters, this will be performed in KOREA, with NO plans for an American production.

Her newest album will be a Frank Wildhorn CD as well! I'm not sure if he's writing her pop tunes or if she'll be doing any covers of his new theatrical stuff. Sounds like she may sing a song or two from Bonnie & Clyde or Wonderland in the concert in Europe.


Re: BONNIE & CLYDE - THey also have their eyes set on Broadway after Sarasota. The reviews weren't as kind as people seem to think they were, though they did get a bit more credible write ups. Variety didn't like it as much as they liked Wonderland, I think that was the only critic to review both shows.

[adamgreer]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 7:54pm

Wildhorn can write a nice melody, but the lyrics are never anything more than banal, trite, meaningless, and in most cases, interchangeable. In His Eyes could very easily have been in The Scarlet Pimpernel or The Civil War. This is the case with most of his songs. That's his biggest problem- he writes generic songs that mean nothing within the context of his shows. And then, when his lyrics are bad, they are BAD- take a look at the disastrous Murder, Murder for an example of horrific lyrics.

His shows also tend to have absolutely awful books that seem thrown together to shoehorn his songs.

The clips of Wonderland I've seen look awful. It might be a fun awful, though.

[perfectliar]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 8:37pm

No, philly. It's just a flop. It lost money. FLOP.

And pull quotes like those are generally ridiculous. You can get a marketable quote like "surging melodies" out of negative reviews if you try hard enough.

Let's do an exercise; which stirs stronger feelings in you?

"I want to see that show, I heard it has surging melodies."

or

"I don't want to see that show, I heard its score is monotonous pop recitative."
Updated On: 8/4/10 at 08:37 PM

[JRybka]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 9:02pm

comments like are fine. but when you say I hate Frank... he sucks. It sounds like a personal attack. If you say. I have heard his music and find it to be amaturish and this is why. The melodies are repetative. They are very child song sounding. Etc etc that gets more attention to me. why do we have to be such nasty people. I guess the saying goes 'Those than can get on broadway and those that can't bitch on braodwayworld.com"

[philly03]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 9:22pm

perfectliar, "I want to see that show, I heard it has surging melodies." sounds more powerful than the other.

Love is more powerful than hate, haven't you ever heard that ?

Here's the full review. It's actually an incredibly positive of J&H ???
"A production for the PEOPLE! The gothic visuals perfectly complement composer Frank Wildhorn's surging melodies. But at the heart of this production are a spree of starmaking performances. Robert Cuccioli is a dynamic presence, providing one of Broadway's most memorable interludes in years. It is an astonishing display that must be seen to be believed. Budding diva Linda Eder portrays the prostitute Lucy with appropriate sexual allure and a glorious voice. She is a revelation who naturualy inspires ardor."

Flop or not, it ran for a whopping four years, spawned four national tours, countless regional performances, and over a dozen international productions.

Haven't you ever heard that just because something is popular doesn't make it bad?

It's a "flop-hit," as described by Frank Rich. SUNSET BOULEVARD is similar - ran over 2 years, but still lost money.

I'm with you JRybka. People HATE seeing others succeed, especially when it's in a non-conventional way. There is ONE thing people could call him out on, yet no one does. And I certainly won't be mentioning it - thus, people are uneducated and basing their opinions on other people's opinions - ie: being sheep. The Civil War, his "worst" Broadway outing had a very successful national tour (which ran practically 2 years), note worth performances at Gettysburg and Ford's Theatre (in DC), as well as a special gala for the president.

DRACULA became a mega-hit in Europe, with a fantastic recording in German, as well as now being performed regionally. The Scarlet Pimpernel is still performed occasionally around the world, as well as plenty of regional productions.

You can try to act like he's seen no success in his career, but he has seen tons in his career and he has the fans (& the money I'm sure) to prove it.
Updated On: 8/4/10 at 09:22 PM

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 10:01pm

moved comments to my post below.

Updated On: 8/5/10 at 10:01 PM

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 10:28pm

I'm not reading the whole thread, but I don't really like this music to "Wonderland." Now, I LOOOOOVE the music to "The Civil War" and most of "Jekyll and Hyde" (well, the complete recording). But, this musical didn't do it for me, listening wise.

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 10:30pm

Kad~ No worries about the confusion about the misquote. I appreciate you're clarifying though.

Philly is very passionate about his opinions and reasonings and that's ok because it's a chat board and he's entitled as much as anyone. The kid's got a lot of the "facts' about Frank's work pretty accurate...and he sure knows his Wildhorn. LOL!

Knowing that this "Alice" news made its way to the 'other' board, I think it's noteworthy to visit some of those comments, which range from support to contstructive criticisim about Frank Wildhorn and his work.

BTW, read through the threads starting with " OK, I'll Stick up for Wildhorn" written by Playbill's Waymon Wong, a well respected theater person and really unbiased wonderful guy!

http://talkinbroadway.com/allthatchat/d.php?id=1886478

Also included are some very insightful thoughts about why Wildhorn is so heavily heaped upon. Very interesting read...

Updated On: 8/5/10 at 10:30 PM

[fangirl1988]

Posted: 8/4/10 at 11:51pm

Tim Burton's "Alice" put me to sleep...

I saw Wonderland in Tampa and Houston and I thought it was great! It's a really strong cast and an extremely entertaining show. Plus, the sets and costumes are awesome. I can't wait to go to New York to see it!!!!

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 8/5/10 at 12:14am

Oi. The show hasn't even started & the shills arise.

[perfectliar]

Posted: 8/5/10 at 12:47am

"Haven't you ever heard that just because something is popular doesn't make it bad?"

Yes, but J&H is bad because it's bad, not because it's popular. It's repetitive and nonsensical. I've seen it in multiple incarnations, the most successful of which was probably the recent 3-person version... because it doesn't mask itself as real theatre, just a rock concert. I can enjoy the music in that sense, but it fails as a theatrical score.

I've seen at least 3 versions of J&H, Dracula on Broadway and in NJ, a community production of The Scarlet Pimpernel, and regional productions of The Civil War and Waiting for the Moon. Waiting... is the only score that I fully enjoyed in the theatre because even though it's heavy with ballads, it also suceeds in aiding the story. The scores in Wildhorn's other shows don't generally service the plot, which is usually told with a terrible book. So, no, Wildhorn isn't completely to blame for all of his shows being of such low quality. But he seems to only be interested in churning out song after song for show after show without any real regard for the quality of the pieces as a whole. That's my issue with him.

[minicko88]

Posted: 8/5/10 at 2:45am

I love your responses to these comments!

"How many shows that you wrote been on broadway?" We'll ignore the strange, Bush-worthy grammar, and just reply, "Since when does one have to write a Broadway show before one is allowed to comment on work?" (I am not saying that one needs these credentials in order to comment on such works. I am simply asking you, has your work ever been judged by another? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and to come onto this message board to simply bash this man is immature. You may not like his work, and that is perfectly fine. Just grow up and learn to show dislike in a show more respectfully!)

"... I can't believe the disrespect you are showing to a man who spends his life trying to thrill theater goers." You could also describe Wildhorn as a man trying to make money in the theatre. I'm not saying he's not an altruistic artist, giving to his audience with no expectation of reward, but he probably isn't. (You speak as if you know Frank. He is indeed trying to make money, but he is also an artist. He wants people to like his work, and the thrill of making people happy comes into account as well as the money aspect.)

"The show ... does have a great message..." No, it doesn't. It has a sentimental, clichéd message. (This is simply person opinion. I find this story to have a heartfelt message of coming home, but obviously that is stupid for anyone to believe that!)

"... wait and see what the critics think." Why? Why should I wait to hear the opinions of people who may very well know less than I do about theatre? Why should I wait to hear the opinion of anyone whose opinion has no more validity than mine? (I find it funny that you don't want to listen to the critics, and yet you expect us to listen to you. haha. I'll take some advice when you become respectful of others.)

From here on out, I have decided to believe anything you say. So, I would respond to this by saying "Wonderland is horrible," and I will have to agree with you!

[fangirl1988]

Posted: 8/5/10 at 10:07am

I don't usually get involved in these sorts of things, but everyone seems to be so negative about something they hardly know. I happened to love the show when I saw it, and people have been saying that they even made some changes for the better.. so I'm excited to see it in New York.

As far as "sentimental, cliched messages" go... Look at Wicked, Mamma Mia, and ANY Disney show that's ever been on Broadway. They're some of the most successful shows running, and they've all got pretty cliche endings.

"I find this story to have a heartfelt message of coming home, but obviously that is stupid for anyone to believe that!" I don't really understand why that's so hard to believe in??

[backwoodsbarbie]

Posted: 8/5/10 at 10:43am

If you think some of the people around here make stupid, uninformed comments, look at what some of the people over at Perez Hilton had to say.
http://perezhilton.com/2010-08-03-coming-to-broadway-an-alice-in-wonderland-musical

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 8/5/10 at 12:50pm

"Philly is very passionate about his opinions and reasonings and that's ok because it's a chat board and he's entitled as much as anyone. The kid's got a lot of the "facts' about Frank's work pretty accurate...and he sure knows his Wildhorn."

I admire his defending Wildhorn, but I've a quibble with a few of Philly's facts, PB Ent. I don't feel much of one way or another about Wildhorn's work, and I agree with you that he's a very savvy businessman.


"If anything, Frank is commendable. He's had one snafu in his career which was the debacle over the DRACULA concept album, which again was an effort to bring the music to the fans."

Please, please do not attach any sort of altruism to that attempt. Wildhorn openly lied, repeatedly, to the Dracula cast about trying to find money for a OBC recording even as he was already working on finding people for the "concept" album.

"Frank, as I've said, is not in it for the money. If he was, he would have left the theatre scene..."

Total BS. In fact, when he was finally busted in his attempt to record the "concept" album behind the Broadway cast's backs, his defense was that he needed to look out after himself and his money (for his family, of course). If you insist, I'll dig up the quote.

"Looks like they've kept Darren Ritchie"

Mr Ritchie must need the money. I don't know another member of the Dracula cast that would have anything to do with Wildhorn after that act of betrayal. He lied straight to their faces.

I appreciate and even admire your defense of Wildhorn, Philly, but don't let your love of the man's work get in the way of the facts. Wildhorn lost a lot of goodwill from industry people when he acted so selfishly.





Updated On: 8/5/10 at 12:50 PM