Wow - Encores is doing FOLLIES- Page 5

[redhotinnyc2]

Posted: 7/5/06 at 8:57am

Anyone else think this might be the next perfect vehicle for Victoria Clark? and Michelle Pawk? there are plenty of wonderful actesses out there to fill these roles - I think they will have no problem casting this one. I mean, hell, we live in NYC - one of the most densly actor-populated cities in the country - this should be a no-brainer!

Posted: 7/5/06 at 9:14am

"I think they will have no problem casting this one. I mean, hell, we live in NYC - one of the most densly actor-populated cities in the country - this should be a no-brainer!"

then how did Encores! end up with Olympia Dukakis in 70, Girls, 70?

[redhotinnyc2]

Posted: 7/5/06 at 9:19am

Personally, I thought she was fine in the role - she had a lot of energy and she certainly wasn't as bad a singer as many have said. Her only problem was that she was tied to the book - too under-rehearsed? Or perhaps too unsure of herself in a musical - but still, her personality was there and I found her performance completely adequate. Are there other actresses her age out there who could have played it? Perhaps, but I wasn't disappointed in her.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 7/5/06 at 9:32am

I dont thik its too much to demand more than "adequate" performances from Encores...

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 7/5/06 at 12:26pm

"FOLLIES is the only major Sondheim musical that has not received a full television broadcast"

Huh??? What about Forum (so-so film version only), Merrily, Company (only a BBC broadcast of the London revival which never aired in the US), Assassins, or Pacific Overtures (though I believe there was an abridged television production aired once, but I'm not sure)? Frogs and Whistle might be considered "lesser" Sondheim, but neither have aired on television. As a matter of fact, only six of his shows aired as fully staged productions and two aired as concerts. I'm not counting Putting It Together or Sondheim: A Celebration, for obvious reasons.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 7/5/06 at 12:39pm

"I read that the actors do not get paid for their performances for the Encore shows, is that true?"

I believe they get the union minimum. They used to operate under the cabaret union but I think they switched over to AEA.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 7/5/06 at 12:40pm

Alright, I will correct that by saying FOLLIES is Sondheim's most famous musical to never rececive a television/film broadcast.

COMPANY was taped for BBC.
PACIFIC OVERTURES was taped in its entirety for Japanese television.
NIGHT MUSIC and SUNDAY have theGreat Performances broadcasts.
Multiple international stagings of PASSION, INTO THE WOODS and SWEENEY have had television broadcasts throughout the US and Europe.

MERRILY and WHISTLE were both flops originally, so its understandable why they haven't been aired, which leaves ASSASSINS and FOLLIES.

HBO owns the rights to ASSASSINS and at one time wanted to make a television movie of it.

FOLLIES, the most "star driven" of Sondheim's shows is the most surprising and overdue ommission from t.v. broadcast and I was merely speculating that perhaps a planned telecast of the Encores production would help generate more interest from an A level cast.

[lildogs]

Posted: 7/5/06 at 4:01pm

I have read the script, MB, thanks. And I've seen it too--and listened to once or twice, I just happen to disagree with you--I think the people involved with the show should have a strong connection to the musical theatre. And I am also of the opinion that Miss Stone can't act her way out of a paper bag--I doubt I'm alone in that assessment either.

Good luck casting!

[lildogs]

Posted: 7/5/06 at 4:02pm

I have read the script, MB, thanks. And I've seen it too--and listened to once or twice, I just happen to disagree with you--I think the people involved with the show should have a strong connection to the musical theatre. And I am also of the opinion that Miss Stone can't act her way out of a paper bag--I doubt I'm alone in that assessment either.

Good luck casting! Are you my ex by any chance?

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 7/5/06 at 4:26pm

I'm sorry if I offended you lildogs, I just don't see how anybody who has read the script could not see Carlotta's "grotesque sexuality." She's living in her head as much as everybody else in the show, and her overt sexuality is a big part of the character. The only current Broadway performer who I think is right in that sense is Marin Mazzie who is too young.

But for the record, most of the original leads were not closely associated with musical theatre: Dorothy Collins, Alexis Smith, Yvonne DeCarlo, Fifi D'Orsay were in fact all making their Broadway debuts.

I actually think most people when FOLLIES was first cast would have told you Yvonne DeCarlo couldn't act her way out of a paper bag either. That's actually kind of the point...

Perhaps our difference of opinion is that I am thinking in terms of casting according to the script, whereas I think you are thinking about casting the songs - but given that the Encores staging is a concert version, there is probably some validity in that.

If we aren't taking into account correct age, I'd love to see Lauren Bacall do "I'm Still Here" - she could at least pull off the book scenes more believably than Lansbury.

Raquel Welch about ten years ago would have made the ideal Carlotta Champion.

Updated On: 7/5/06 at 04:26 PM

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 7/5/06 at 4:33pm

I love Lansbury, but I see her as more of a Hattie than a Carlotta. She would be too clean, motherly, and sweet seeming for Carlotta.

[travismoser]

Posted: 7/5/06 at 4:56pm

I take it you haven't seen her Oscar nominated turn in "The Manchurian Candidate" or clips from her Tony winning performance as Mama Rose in the revival of "Gypsy?"

[PeteGonBway]

Posted: 7/5/06 at 5:05pm

I'm so excited for this!!

Posted: 7/5/06 at 7:54pm

"but given that the Encores staging is a concert version"

People who make remarks like that obviously have no idea what the Encores! shows are really like.

[fflagg]

Posted: 7/5/06 at 8:34pm

Let them spend time and money for once and cast real stars with real charisma. I will not fork over money to see bland B-level divas like Karen Ziemba, Debra Monk, and Donna Murphy. The producers should go after people like Goldie Hawn, Shirley MacLaine, Diahann Carroll, Michele Lee, and Jane Fonda.

[lildogs]

Posted: 7/5/06 at 9:33pm

I wasn't offended, baffled, yes, but not offended.

I see the show differently; I have a distinction when it comes to films or plays/musicals: what happens in the work vs. what the work is about. I think at least in the context of what actually happens in the script you have valid point, but I think that FOLLIES is more about the convention of musical theatre itself and how it is reflected and reflects the history of this country.

As Oklahoma! made a huge splash on Broadway, we were in the middle of WWII and the themes of home and the struggle to find a place in the world resonated with American audiences. Kepping in mind that musicals are one of the few uniquely American art forms, Sondheim was able to take both the nostalgia craze that was beginning to grow in the late 60s and early 70s and the disillusionment of the Vietnam War and combine them into a work that commented on the American experience.

FOLLIES was in part inspired by that famous photo of Gloria Swanson standing in the ruins of an old movie house and that to me symbolizes what the show is mostly about. It isn't about two unhappy couples, but the loss of innocence and the realization that much of what Broadway and Hollywood fed us is a lie.

You're not necessarily gonna love tomorrow, you might not be with me. All four are torn between their ideals and their realitites. And to me, nothing captures both the essence of the show and pure entertainment value than seeing an star that we've watched age perform these songs.

I agree--alot of the original stars weren't known for their stage work, but Alexis Smith had been a Hollywood star (sorta), Dorothy had been a professional performer since her teen years, McMartin had been onstage for at least 10 years, and to a lesser degree, so had Gene Nelson. McCarty and most certainly Shutta had both been veterans too.

I guess it just carries alot more dramatic weight (to me) to see someone perform this show (or in this case, concert) who has a sentimental attachment to a theatre queen like me. I can't imagine that many of the people who attend these concerts are tourists. I'd say they are people like us on the board who have a love for the old-school performers and what they represent.

I think Bacall, Maclaine, Carroll and Lee are all good choices because we have a history with them, we grew up with them, and seeing them age is both a reminder of our own mortality and of the resilience of the human spirit.

Jesus, I sound like John Simon.

And Donna Murphy is no B-level diva, not by any stretch of the imagination.

[nobodyhome]

Posted: 7/6/06 at 4:58am

MichaelBennettt, is the phrase "grotesque sexuality" in reference to Carlotta your phrase or are you quoting someone? I certainly don't see her that way. She's a woman in her early to mid fifties, who's still attractive—I don't think she's imagining it when she says in her first monologue that a lot of the guys she meets want "the works"—and has a healthy sexual appetite. Actually, around 1971 was when we kept hearing that women reached their sexual peak in their 40s while men reached theirs around 20. And Carlotta is taking advantage of it because she can.

Sharon Stone actually is a pretty good match (as today's actresses go) for De Carlo in terms of career. But I do think that it would be smart to go with someone with a bit more stage experience than Stone (at least to my knowledge) has. De Carlo had done a good deal of theatre by then ("Tuesday you're touring in stock"). De Carlo was also a very trained singer. I don't know how much Stone has sung in public, but you don't make your public singing debut in something like this.

I love the Adrienne Barbeau idea.

Smith and Collins had both done a lot of theatre, too, especially Collins, who had done tons of stock in roles like Laurey, Nelllie Forbush, Eliza Doolittle, Magnolia, Fiona McLaren, Lizzie Curry, Julie Jordan, and even Eve/Ella/Passionella and Leona Samish. It was when Sondheim saw her as Leona that he knew he wanted her for Follies. She was a very experienced musical-theatre actress. (After all, Hal Prince's final choice was between Barbara Cook and Collins for Amalia in She Loves Me.)

Really, nobody in the original supporting cast was a well-known name so the idea that well-known names are needed for those roles is our construct, not that of the creators. And most of them had no real connection to Ziegfeld or any of his stars. Ethel Shutta did, of course, but she was never a star. D'Orsay had worked with people like Will Rogers and Jolson, so she did. (Btw, she had been cast in one earlier Broadway show, Seventh Heaven, but she was fired out of town and replaced by Bea Arthur.) That was really it.

Smith's name carried some nostalgia for '40s Hollywood, and De Carlo for '50s Hollywood. And Collins for '50s pop music and TV. (And I suppose all three of them carried connections to summer stock and tours.) But nobody should think that those names carried any sort of connection to the world of Ziegfeld or old Broadway.

As for the idea of Lansbury as Carlotta, I think it's fairly moot whether or not she's right for the role (or ever would have been right). I can't imagine that Lansbury wants to get up in front of a New York audience and try to belt out Bs. The song requires a strong vocal punch at the end, and I doubt that she wants to try to do that and find that she can't really do it anymore. While we may well see her again onstage, perhaps in the piece she did in Los Angeles, she's going to be very careful about what she chooses to do.

Similarly, someone like Shirley MacLaine is not likely to risk getting onstage and doing a big musical number when she hasn't done anything like that for a very long time.

And the idea that the problem is that Encores needs to spend more money to attract bigger names . . . well, I don't think so. Apart from questions like whether the agreements Encores has with the unions permit that and whether it wouldn't cost Encores more than it was worth given how much (or little) difference it would make in the gross for six performances (since this show is going to do well at the box office anyway), does anybody really think that money is what would keep a MacLaine or Hawn from doing an Encores? These women don't need money, or at least not the kind of money that Encores could possibly afford to pay them under any circumstances. If Encores decided that they desperately needed a star and decided to break their bank (assuming this was OK with Equity) and offered MacLaine, say, $50K, does anybody think that would persuade her to do it? She doesn't need it. If they offered her $2 million she might do it. But clearly Encores is in no position to offer anything like that.

Personally (and I can hear the howls of protest), I think that Karen Ziemba might be a great Sally.

What they need are people who can play the roles.

I think that LuPone might be a good Carlotta. It's really the only role she could play.

A lot of people in this thread seem to want a starry presentation that is not overly concerned with dramatic coherence. And I think that some of those people feel (as many do) that the show is not good enough to benefit from an attempt at dramatic coherence so they should just get big names to create excitement. I feel differently and (unlikely as this is to actually be achieved at Encores) I'm going to hope that Encores shoots for a dramatically cohherent performance.

[lildogs]

Posted: 7/6/06 at 8:10am

Wow, the word "coherence" is getting a lot of action on this thread. I thought we had moved to "Night Music" for a minute....

[ljay889]

Posted: 7/6/06 at 11:43am

Similarly, someone like Shirley MacLaine is not likely to risk getting onstage and doing a big musical number when she hasn't done anything like that for a very long time.

- Shirley announced recently she wishes to put together a solo show for Broadway. So she is definitely wanting to get back on stage and performing.