conclusion: after listening to countless foreign cast albums...

[BkCollector]

Posted: 2/27/08 at 1:07pm

I've decided that Broadway pit musicians suck.

The playing, the rhythmic integrity, the singing, the performances are far more tight and on average, the musicianship is outstanding compared to it's OBC counterpart.

Don't take my word for it. Listen to the Japanese recording of Phantom and hear the score the way it is supposed to sound, without sloppy musicians and even sloppier singing.

On the whole, there is no subtlety in Broadway orchestras anymore, and it shows in the theater and on the recordings.

My theory is that most musicians who play on foreign recordings make the bulk of their living playing classical music, and don't have the luxury of gigging in places where "just getting by and playing the right pitches" is ok, like on Broadway.

These musicians probably have to work very hard to get a job because there is no huge music scene playing musical theater music, so the bulk of their work is classical, and the superior technical skills and superior playing cross over into these recordings, which are beautifully performed.

Bravo to everyone on those recordings, and boo to every Broadway musician that I know who thinks its ok to send a sub who has never looked at the music before to play for you on Broadway, because it happens every night, and NO ONE should stand for it.
Updated On: 2/27/08 at 01:07 PM

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/27/08 at 1:53pm

The playing, the rhythmic integrity, the singing, the performances are far more tight and on average, the musicianship is outstanding compared to it's OBC counterpart.

Don't take my word for it. Listen to the Japanese recording of Phantom and hear the score the way it is supposed to sound, without sloppy musicians and even sloppier singing.

Phantom of the Opera does not have an "OBC" recording. The London recording was reissued and labeled as a Broadway Cast recording.

Bravo to everyone on those recordings, and boo to every Broadway musician that I know who thinks its ok to send a sub who has never looked at the music before to play for you on Broadway, because it happens every night, and NO ONE should stand for it.

I'm confused. You're comparing recordings to live performances? Often the orchestras for recordings are expanded to create a fuller sound. And they can choose the best take. Sometimes the orchestrations themselves are altered for the recording. It's apples/oranges.

Your theory about foreign production musicians, how many productions of musicals have you seen overseas? Can you attest that the live orchestras of those musicals are in fact performed to a better ability than their Broadway counterparts? Do they perform 8 shows a week for years and years? Or is your theory based solely on hearing recordings?

[emmadny]

Posted: 2/27/08 at 2:03pm

SPANISH Phanton of the Opera OBC is fantastic, I recommend it¡¡¡

[BkCollector]

Posted: 2/27/08 at 2:08pm

oops. Yes, I did mean the OLC of Phantom.

But no, I'm not just using studio recordings to make this comparison. Although the same applies to Broadway studio recordings, the playing is comparatively atrocious too.

But I have a heard live performances both in the US and overseas and yes, I still stand by my statement.

[blaxx]

Posted: 2/27/08 at 2:19pm

I've seen musicals in a lot of different countries and I disagree completely - if anything, the orchestra and sound design are supervised by the original team and are never close to the ones that are put together especifically for the original production.

I don't doubt some could have been good, but I would never say that orchestras in international productions sound any better.

Oh, and Spain's Phantom = no good.

[emmadny]

Posted: 2/27/08 at 2:22pm

Spanish Phantom is INCREDIBLE

[emmadny]

Posted: 2/27/08 at 2:24pm

Hey, I mean spanish from SPAIN, not latin

[BkCollector]

Posted: 2/27/08 at 2:26pm

Im not talking about sound design, that may indeed be an issue in foreign productions, Im talking about MUSICIANSHIP.

Bottom line, these recordings and performances display a huge difference between the shoddy musicianship of US pit musicians on Broadway and the incredible playing of talented musicians overseas.

[blaxx]

Posted: 2/27/08 at 2:26pm

Whatever you say, our Spanish sock puppet.

[Justin D]

Posted: 2/27/08 at 2:29pm

as far as i know there is no Spanish (from Spain) recording of Phantom. there is the Mexican one, but they use the Canadian orchestra track.

but anyways,

as for the Japan phantom, it may be an unfair comparision since I read a long time ago that some of the Japan venues when the show was touring didnt have pits so the score was piped in, therefore they probably did a really nice studio recording aith augmented musicians. In you listen to the second and third recordings, the score is very similar, almost identical, and at some points there are curious bits where it usually is silent but then you hear a horn go off almost ti signal to the performer on stage that their que is coming up (since there would ne bo conductor in the pit to speed up or slow down the music to fir what the actors are doing.

[emmadny]

Posted: 2/27/08 at 2:31pm

Yes, there are Spanish recording (from SPAIN).
Julia Moller and Juan carlos Barona

[blaxx]

Posted: 2/27/08 at 2:33pm

I saw both the Mexican and Spanish casts (don't ask me why), and they were horrendous. The Mexico City production decided to cast actual opera singers who had never done musical theater before and the result was...well, out of a haunted house nightmare.

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 2/27/08 at 2:39pm

"On the whole, there is no subtlety in Broadway orchestras anymore, and it shows in the theater and on the recordings."

What Broadway recordings have the orchestras let you down in recently? Sure, most recordings don't sound like the OBC's of Most Happy Fella or Kismet anymore, but they're not orchestrated like that anymore either. I actually can't think of a recent recording where I have felt like the orchestra HASN'T been top notch.

[Justin D]

Posted: 2/27/08 at 2:51pm

"Yes, there are Spanish recording (from SPAIN).
Julia Moller and Juan carlos Barona"

Only the movie version, not the stage version.

[FranklinShepard-Inc.]

Posted: 2/27/08 at 4:26pm

Well, I can relate to what you say, though I would put it differently. It appears as well to my ears that on OBC recordings there's very often a very equalised sound, whereas some non OBC recordings seem to give the orchestra more liberty in these aspects, and have what you call a more "classical" approach. It's more or less the question how much you see the orchestra having a solo function in the show or whether they merely accompany in the background.

[BkCollector]

Posted: 2/27/08 at 4:34pm

Another example: Compare the overture to She Loves Me on just about any English language recording to the Vienna recording. That playing is IMPECCABLE.

[JMVR]

Posted: 2/27/08 at 4:57pm

There is a complete Spanish cast recording of Phantom. It was recorded live, which is for me, what makes it special. The singing . . .not so much.

As for the Mexico City production, the Christines were indeed opera singers but I think they did a fine job. The Phantoms could be a little too "wooden", there were three of them alternating and while they sang very well generally, the voice sounded too tenorish for some songs like "Music of the Night" where a more seductive kind of singing works better. The only real disasters tended to be the Carlottas, also two of them alternating neither of which could act. Not the best production ever but it was quite a dignified attempt IMHO.

My two cents. I have seen many musicals overseas but honestly I lack the musical expertise to comment on the musicians themselves and their comparison to Broadway pit musicians.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/27/08 at 6:09pm

Whatever. I'll take your word for it. All American musicians suck. So don't go to any more shows in the US.

[morosco]

Posted: 2/27/08 at 8:49pm

Have you heard the Korean Cast Recording of EVITA?

Oy.

[BkCollector]

Posted: 2/28/08 at 10:53am

Yes, the Korean cast recording of Evita.It's truly terrible.

The thing is that New York musicians who can't get into serious orchestras that pay well, or don't want to be tied down into classical playing because they are primarily jazz musicians end up in Broadway pits.

These people don't take playing in a Broadway pit as seriously as their other gigs, because their either not making their own music, or they don't respect the genre. I've never met a musician in New York who works in a pit and considers it their most important gig.

So the musicians in Europe and other countries outside of the US are used to being in a position where they are either playing in the city that they live in and play in professionally, and there definitely aren't enough jobs to go around or they are traveling on a tour, either way, it behooves them to play to the best of their ability.

A Broadway musician, notsomuch from my experience, even if they get fired from a Broadway pit (which rarely happens) it's not that much of a big deal, because its such a big pond.

Just my opinion of course, but the proof is in the listening, and it's there.

[emmadny]

Posted: 2/28/08 at 10:57am

Next week:
CD of Beauty and the beast Spanish revival.
I want it¡¡¡¡¡¡¡

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/28/08 at 11:41am

The thing is that New York musicians who can't get into serious orchestras that pay well, or don't want to be tied down into classical playing because they are primarily jazz musicians end up in Broadway pits.

These people don't take playing in a Broadway pit as seriously as their other gigs, because their either not making their own music, or they don't respect the genre. I've never met a musician in New York who works in a pit and considers it their most important gig.

I hope some of them are here to respond to that rather prejudiced generalization you've made. Perhaps those who complain about the musicianship found in members of Broadway orchestras are those who simply weren't good enough get hired to play for one and are extremely bitter about it. That's a pretty plausible explanation as well.