West Side Story revival?- Page 14

[Fetus]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 12:13pm

Luminaire2 said: "Do you go on twitter? The outrage is not just on this board..."

https://twitter.com/nwalks/status/1149023982294884356

This tweet has over double the engagement that any of the tweets announcing the cast has.

https://twitter.com/THR/status/1149017416577486852

This is the most liked tweet regarding the casting announcement and almost all of the replies deal with Ramasar. Though I'm sure the talking heads will say "twitter can't do anything" despite them previously saying the outrage was contained in this thread, but many people are upset with this casting.

[\_(•_•)_/]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 12:16pm

Social media is powerful. The casting fiasco of great comet spread backlash on twitter and closed the show. Don’t doubt it.

[NievesG]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 12:28pm

I know people like to be wildly provocative on this board which sometimes makes for entertaining reading. The defending of this man (who can't act or sing besides) has been terribly repugnant to read.

Also re: the implications of the sexual revolution does not mean that women are excused from being or feeling victimized. Sure, we should be empowered to express our sexuality but to say we should ignore those who sexually harass or assault because "he's a jerk; he's not humiliating me" in the name of empowerment... that's some next level conflating.

[JSquared2]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 12:35pm

Fetus said: ""By reason of the foregoing carelessness and negligence of the defendants AMAR RAMASAR and ZACHARY CATAZARO, plaintiff ALEXANDRA WATERBURY sustained serious and severe psychological and emotional distress. mental anguish, embarrassment, and humiliation, and upon information and belief these injuries arc of a permanent and lasting nature; that said plaintiff was confined to her bed, home, and/or various medical institutions as a result thereof"

Fetus, these "documents" you keep quoting from are all lifted from the plaintiffs motion.  They are NOT legal findings of fact in any way, shape or form.  A plaintiff can say anything they wish to in their legal filing, and then the respondent gets to, you know, RESPOND (see that's how the justice system works).  

[Fetus]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 12:41pm

JSquared2 said: "Fetus, these "documents" you keep quoting from are all lifted from the plaintiffs motion. They are NOT legal findings of fact in any way, shape or form. A plaintiff can say anything they wish to in their legal filing, and then the respondent gets to, you know, RESPOND (see that's how the justice system works)."

I choose to believe the content in these documents. If the text messages and other accusations are in any way exaggerated then it's the responsibility of the respondent to defend themselves, until then I believe the information that has been presented and made publicly available. I'm not going to use mental gymnastics to defend a man accused of misconduct, and this isn't going to stop me from quoting or sharing what is in these documents.

[joevitus]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 12:42pm

The documents never say Ramasar took pictures or videos without knowledge. The level of your disingenuousness is staggering. 

[Fetus]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 12:46pm

joevitus said: "The documents never say Ramasar took pictures or videos without knowledge. The level of your disingenuousness is staggering."

You're being obtuse. The upset is that he solicited and distributed nude photos of women in his ballet company without their knowledge or consent. This point has been repeated over and over, and your blindness to it only points to your trolling to keep this conversation going - which none of us mind because we're happy to boost the awareness of Ramasar's misconduct prior to being cast in West Side Story.

[joevitus]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 12:47pm

NievesG said: "I know people like to be wildly provocative on this board which sometimes makes for entertaining reading. The defending of this man (who can't act or sing besides) has been terribly repugnant to read.

Also re: the implications of the sexual revolution does not mean that women are excused from being or feeling victimized. Sure, we should be empowered to express our sexuality but to say we should ignore those who sexually harass or assault because "he's a jerk; he's not humiliating me" in the name of empowerment... that's some next level conflating."

Never said women couldn't be victimized. I said someone sharing a pic of themselves naked and it winding up being seen by others is not an example of victimhood. It's an example of putting trust in the wrong person.

If he attacked these women or took the pic against their will, they'd have been victimized. As he it appears he didn't, you don't have a victim. You have someone who made a bad choice. And now that his behavior is know, future women will know not to make that choice, and their images won't be shared by him with anyone.

 

[Fetus]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 12:51pm

A group of men in their 30s were caught making disgusting comments and trading the nudes of younger women aged 18-20 within the ballet company they were employed. It is not an over-exaggeration to be disgusted and alarmed that one of those men were cast in a primary role along with 23 newcomers making their Broadway debut while he is still dealing with the repercussions for those actions.

If you want to whine that I'm out of line then that's your own prerogative but it isn't going to stop or silence me.

[Impossible2]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 1:26pm

_(•_&bull_/ said: "All impossible does is intentionally have the opposing opinion, everything you say goes in one ear and out the other.

And newsflash, it’s not just the message board who is upset, go to any social media.

And why is it okay for guys to take nudes, but females can’t? Impossible and Joe, just made themselves known of defending predators on broadway. So good luck in future convos!"

I have never taken a nude of myself or anyone else in my life. Nor have I ever asked to see anyone's 'nudes'. I think it's tacky AF as I have already stated and would never do it. So BIG fail there x

I am not defending anyone other than the other person you are now attacking for simple presenting a rational argument in the face of mounting hysteria.

[joevitus]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 1:46pm

There's no evidence Ramasar is a predator, so I can't be defending one. Finley is a predator, that's clear. And I haven't defended him. There is no evidence Ramasar has preyed on anyone. None of the court documents demonstrate that he has.

[Luminaire2]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 1:49pm

Fetus said: "Luminaire2 said: "Do you go on twitter? The outrage is not just on this board..."

https://twitter.com/nwalks/status/1149023982294884356

This tweet has over double the engagement that any of the tweets announcing the cast has.

https://twitter.com/THR/status/1149017416577486852

This is the most liked tweet regarding the casting announcement and almost all of the replies deal with Ramasar. Though I'm sure the talking heads will say "twitter can't do anything" despite them previously saying the outrage was contained in this thread, but many people are upset with this casting."

 

Thanks for bringing receipts to this thread! Every comment on the official twitter post from WSS is people upset about the casting... 

[Fetus]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 2:24pm

joevitus said: "There'sno evidence Ramasar is a predator, so I can't be defending one. Finley is a predator, that's clear. And I haven't defended him.There is no evidence Ramasar has preyed on anyone. None of the court documents demonstrate that he has."

Nobody has described Ramasar as a "predator", but he was found guilty of sexual misconduct by New York City Ballet. While they did not have grounds to fire him, they made sure to note that he was ordered to undergo counseling on a condition of his reinstatement.

https://www.dancemagazine.com/zachary-catazaro-amar-ramasar-firing-determined-wrongful-2635059461.html?rebelltitem=5#rebelltitem5

"The arbitration brought on by the American Guild of Musical Artists, which challenged New York City Ballet's suspension and termination of Zachary Catazaro and Amar Ramasar, has concluded. The arbitrator has ruled that while NYCB was justified in disciplining the two men, suspension was the appropriate punishment for their actions and termination was too severe. As such, the arbitrator has ordered NYCB to reinstate Catazaro and Ramasar to their former positions as Principal Dancers with NYCB. 

NYCB is gratified that the arbitrator upheld the Company's right to discipline the men for their actions but still believes strongly that it was also within its rights to terminate Catazaro and Ramasar. However, the Company is bound by the arbitrator's decision and will abide by the ruling. Catazaro intends to resign from the Company, effective immediately, and NYCB supports that decision. Ramasar does plan to return to NYCB and as a condition of his reinstatement, the arbitrator has ordered that he undergo counseling on the standards for his conduct."

In my opinion, and the opinion of many others, it is too soon for him to return to Broadway in a principal role when he still facing repercussions (and supposedly undergoing counseling) from his behavior at NYCB. Putting him into another breeding ground of young performers sends the wrong message here, in a revival that has an otherwise very exciting/inspired cast and creative team.

[Impossible2]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 2:33pm

Fetus said: "joevitus said: "There'sno evidence Ramasar is a predator, so I can't be defending one. Finley is a predator, that's clear. And I haven't defended him.There is no evidence Ramasar has preyed on anyone. None of the court documents demonstrate that he has."

Nobody has described Ramasar as a "predator", but he was found guilty of sexual misconduct by New York City Ballet. While they did not have grounds to fire him, they made sure to note that he was ordered to undergo counseling on a condition of his reinstatement.

https://www.dancemagazine.com/zachary-catazaro-amar-ramasar-firing-determined-wrongful-2635059461.html?rebelltitem=5#rebelltitem5

"The arbitration brought on by the American Guild of Musical Artists, which challenged New York City Ballet's suspension and termination of Zachary Catazaro and Amar Ramasar, has concluded. The arbitrator has ruled that while NYCB was justified in disciplining the two men, suspension was the appropriate punishment for their actions and termination was too severe. As such, the arbitrator has ordered NYCB to reinstate Catazaro and Ramasar to their former positions as Principal Dancers with NYCB.

NYCB is gratified that the arbitrator upheld the Company's right to discipline the men for their actions but still believes strongly that it was also within its rights to terminate Catazaro and Ramasar. However, the Company is bound by the arbitrator's decision and will abide by the ruling. Catazaro intends to resign from the Company, effective immediately, and NYCB supports that decision. Ramasar does plan to return to NYCB and as a condition of his reinstatement, the arbitrator has ordered that he undergo counseling on the standards for his conduct."

In my opinion, and the opinion of many others, it is too soon for him to return to Broadway in a principal role when he still facing repercussions (and supposedly undergoing counseling)from his behavior at NYCB. Putting him into another breeding ground of young performers sends the wrong message here, in a revival that has an otherwise very exciting/inspired cast and creative team."

So he's been disciplined (and rightly so) and suffered the consequences of his actions in a work capacity and been shamed (and rightly so) across the entire world for his actions. Every person he will ever know in the future especially at work, will know what he did and that he isn't worth dealing with on a personal level.

Case closed.

[Fetus]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 2:42pm

Impossible2 said: "Fetus said: "joevitus said: "There'sno evidence Ramasar is a predator, so I can't be defending one. Finley is a predator, that's clear. And I haven't defended him.There is no evidence Ramasar has preyed on anyone. None of the court documents demonstrate that he has."

Nobody has described Ramasar as a "predator", but he was found guilty of sexual misconduct by New York City Ballet. While they did not have grounds to fire him, they made sure to note that he was ordered to undergo counseling on a condition of his reinstatement.

https://www.dancemagazine.com/zachary-catazaro-amar-ramasar-firing-determined-wrongful-2635059461.html?rebelltitem=5#rebelltitem5

"The arbitration brought on by the American Guild of Musical Artists, which challenged New York City Ballet's suspension and termination of Zachary Catazaro and Amar Ramasar, has concluded. The arbitrator has ruled that while NYCB was justified in disciplining the two men, suspension was the appropriate punishment for their actions and termination was too severe. As such, the arbitrator has ordered NYCB to reinstate Catazaro and Ramasar to their former positions as Principal Dancers with NYCB.

NYCB is gratified that the arbitrator upheld the Company's right to discipline the men for their actions but still believes strongly that it was also within its rights to terminate Catazaro and Ramasar. However, the Company is bound by the arbitrator's decision and will abide by the ruling. Catazaro intends to resign from the Company, effective immediately, and NYCB supports that decision. Ramasar does plan to return to NYCB and as a condition of his reinstatement, the arbitrator has ordered that he undergo counseling on the standards for his conduct."

In my opinion, and the opinion of many others, it is too soon for him to return to Broadway in a principal role when he still facing repercussions (and supposedly undergoing counseling)from his behavior at NYCB. Putting him into another breeding ground of young performers sends the wrong message here, in a revival that has an otherwise very exciting/inspired cast and creative team."

Sohe's been disciplined (and rightly so) andsuffered the consequences of his actions in a work capacity and been shamed (and rightly so) across the entire world for hisactions. Every person he will ever know in the future especially at work, will know what he did and that he isn't worth dealing with on a personal level.

Case closed."

I bolded my point since you didn't seem to read what I said and jumped to conclusions. You can disagree, but you are clearly in the minority of people upset that are aware of this situation.

Ramasar is in the middle of an ongoing lawsuit on this matter, so not only is he a liability to this production, but he's still awaiting potentially more repercussions for his actions. The case isn't "closed".

[Impossible2]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 2:55pm

Fetus said: "Impossible2 said: "Fetus said: "joevitus said: "There'sno evidence Ramasar is a predator, so I can't be defending one. Finley is a predator, that's clear. And I haven't defended him.There is no evidence Ramasar has preyed on anyone. None of the court documents demonstrate that he has."

Nobody has described Ramasar as a "predator", but he was found guilty of sexual misconduct by New York City Ballet. While they did not have grounds to fire him, they made sure to note that he was ordered to undergo counseling on a condition of his reinstatement.

https://www.dancemagazine.com/zachary-catazaro-amar-ramasar-firing-determined-wrongful-2635059461.html?rebelltitem=5#rebelltitem5

"The arbitration brought on by the American Guild of Musical Artists, which challenged New York City Ballet's suspension and termination of Zachary Catazaro and Amar Ramasar, has concluded. The arbitrator has ruled that while NYCB was justified in disciplining the two men, suspension was the appropriate punishment for their actions and termination was too severe. As such, the arbitrator has ordered NYCB to reinstate Catazaro and Ramasar to their former positions as Principal Dancers with NYCB.

NYCB is gratified that the arbitrator upheld the Company's right to discipline the men for their actions but still believes strongly that it was also within its rights to terminate Catazaro and Ramasar. However, the Company is bound by the arbitrator's decision and will abide by the ruling. Catazaro intends to resign from the Company, effective immediately, and NYCB supports that decision. Ramasar does plan to return to NYCB and as a condition of his reinstatement, the arbitrator has ordered that he undergo counseling on the standards for his conduct."

In my opinion, and the opinion of many others, it is too soon for him to return to Broadway in a principal role when he still facing repercussions (and supposedly undergoing counseling)from his behavior at NYCB. Putting him into another breeding ground of young performers sends the wrong message here, in a revival that has an otherwise very exciting/inspired cast and creative team."

Sohe's been disciplined (and rightly so) andsuffered the consequences of his actions in a work capacity and been shamed (and rightly so) across the entire world for hisactions. Every person he will ever know in the future especially at work, will know what he did and that he isn't worth dealing with on a personal level.

Case closed."

I bolded my point since you didn't seem to read what I said and jumped to conclusions. You can disagree, but you are clearly in the minority of people upset that are aware of this situation.

Ramasar is in the middle of an ongoing lawsuit on this matter, so not only is he a liability to this production, but he's still awaiting potentially more repercussions for his actions. The case isn't"closed"."

Look, I don't want to argue with you, you seem like a nice person. 

I do not disagree with ANYTHING you are saying. The man is a pig and treated women appallingly and frankly the decision to cast someone in his situation is simply mind boggling. However the fact he has been hired under such controversial circumstances says to me that the people who made that decision know a hell of a lot more about the situation than any of us do. I highly doubt they have hired someone and are going to rehearse this person for however long only to have to drop him if he is charged with a crime. It just doesn't make sense. There is obviously more to it than what we already know.

[joevitus]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 3:08pm

Impossible2 said: "Fetus said: "joevitus said: "There'sno evidence Ramasar is a predator, so I can't be defending one. Finley is a predator, that's clear. And I haven't defended him.There is no evidence Ramasar has preyed on anyone. None of the court documents demonstrate that he has."

Nobody has described Ramasar as a "predator", but he was found guilty of sexual misconduct by New York City Ballet. While they did not have grounds to fire him, they made sure to note that he was ordered to undergo counseling on a condition of his reinstatement.

https://www.dancemagazine.com/zachary-catazaro-amar-ramasar-firing-determined-wrongful-2635059461.html?rebelltitem=5#rebelltitem5

"The arbitration brought on by the American Guild of Musical Artists, which challenged New York City Ballet's suspension and termination of Zachary Catazaro and Amar Ramasar, has concluded. The arbitrator has ruled that while NYCB was justified in disciplining the two men, suspension was the appropriate punishment for their actions and termination was too severe. As such, the arbitrator has ordered NYCB to reinstate Catazaro and Ramasar to their former positions as Principal Dancers with NYCB.

NYCB is gratified that the arbitrator upheld the Company's right to discipline the men for their actions but still believes strongly that it was also within its rights to terminate Catazaro and Ramasar. However, the Company is bound by the arbitrator's decision and will abide by the ruling. Catazaro intends to resign from the Company, effective immediately, and NYCB supports that decision. Ramasar does plan to return to NYCB and as a condition of his reinstatement, the arbitrator has ordered that he undergo counseling on the standards for his conduct."

In my opinion, and the opinion of many others, it is too soon for him to return to Broadway in a principal role when he still facing repercussions (and supposedly undergoing counseling)from his behavior at NYCB. Putting him into another breeding ground of young performers sends the wrong message here, in a revival that has an otherwise very exciting/inspired cast and creative team."y

Sohe's been disciplined (and rightly so) andsuffered the consequences of his actions in a work capacity and been shamed (and rightly so) across the entire world for hisactions. Every person he will ever know in the future especially at work, will know what he did and that he isn't worth dealing with on a personal level.

Case closed."

Pretty much this. If evidence comes out that he did take pictures of someone without consent, or actually attacked someone, then the situation will be different. As of now, just what you said.

[anewroomfortworoom]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 3:11pm

Impossible2 said: “The man is a pig and treated women appallingly and frankly the decision to cast someone in his situation is simply mind boggling. However thefact he has been hired under such controversial circumstances says to me that the people who made that decision know a hell of a lot more about the situation than any of us do. I highly doubt they have hired someone and are going to rehearse this person for however long only to have to drop him if he is charged with a crime. It just doesn't make sense. There is obviously more to it than what we already know."

People get cast in shows for a variety of reasons, among them: talent (which appears not to be the case with Ramasar), star power (again...probably not here), edginess/controversy/buzz (ding ding ding), and nepotism/cronyism (could also be ding ding ding). To assume he was cast only because the team knows something we don’t, such as private knowledge that he’s pure as the driven snow, seems unrealistic given how the industry works. 

Updated On: 7/12/19 at 03:11 PM

[Impossible2]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 3:25pm

anewroomfortworoom said: "Impossible2 said: “The man is a pig and treated women appallingly and frankly the decision to cast someone in his situation is simply mind boggling. However thefact he has been hired under such controversial circumstances says to me that the people who made that decision know a hell of a lot more about the situation than any of us do. I highly doubt they have hired someone and are going to rehearse this person for however long only to have to drop him if he is charged with a crime. It just doesn't make sense. There is obviously more to it than what we already know."

People get cast in shows for a variety of reasons, among them:talent (which appears not to bethe case with Ramasar), star power (again...probably not here), edginess/controversy/buzz (ding ding ding), and nepotism/cronyism (could also be ding ding ding). To assume he was cast only because the team knows something we don’t, such as private knowledge thathe’s pure as the driven snow, seems unrealistic given how the industry works."

I have no idea why he was cast, nor would I have cast him for reasons already stated.

I keep reading that he can't act or sing, but I saw Carousel and I don't even remember anything about it other than that the whole thing was dreadful. He certainly wasn't bad enough that he stood out and I noticed him. Apparently his part was cut back, I don't know the material enough to comment on that. 

Either way, he obviously impressed some pretty big and respected names in his audition for this otherwise he wouldn't have been chosen with everything else going on in his life.

Mind Geffen himself also has a bit of a shady past in such matters so who knows what the hell is going on.

[JSquared2]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 6:30pm

Tickets now available on Today Tix.

Haters please move along so the rest of us can start buying tickets and discussing the actual show.

[LuPita2]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 6:53pm

_(•_&bull_/ said: "Social media is powerful. The casting fiasco of great comet spread backlash on twitter and closed the show. Don’t doubt it."

It's been happening since the cast was announced. There was many, many comments on their IG page, and as of this afternoon they disabled all comments. People aren't interested in supporting this man, this show is appealing to young people (not talking about BMC kids, more like 18-35) but we don't accept rape culture. He will be recast, this will be a huge flop, or both. 

If you want to whine that I'm out of line then that's your own prerogative but it isn't going to stop or silence me.

Never stop speaking out against these misogynists, they are so threatened by strong women in this thread, it's insane.  

[\_(•_•)_/]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 6:53pm

Today Tix? Already?

[Fetus]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 6:55pm

LuPita2 said: "_(•_&bull_/ said: "Social media is powerful. The casting fiasco of great comet spread backlash on twitter and closed the show. Don’t doubt it."

It's been happening since the cast was announced. There was many, many comments on their IG page, and as of this afternoon they disabled all comments. People aren't interested in supporting this man, this show is appealing to young people (not talking about BMC kids, more like 18-35) but we don't accept rape culture. He will be recast, this will be a huge flop, or both.

If you want to whine that I'm out of line then that's your own prerogative but it isn't going to stop or silence me.

Never stop speaking out against these misogynists, they are so threatened by strong women in this thread, it's insane."

Well said. People will continue to discuss this and it will follow the development of this production so long as it's not corrected.

[NievesG]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 6:58pm

_(•_&bull_/ said: "Today Tix? Already? "

Yes, previews only so far but rear mezz is $39 plus fees.

 

I personally won't be supporting this production as of yet but this is a very interesting sale...

 

[LuPita2]

Posted: 7/12/19 at 6:59pm

Yes. This will forever be talked about here, regardless of a poster who has attempted to silence us a dozen times now, with many posts of HIS being deleted.

Updated On: 7/12/19 at 06:59 PM