America Olivio Let's On That Spider-Man Isn't The Best Thing Since Sliced Bread- Page 2

[uncageg]

Posted: 2/11/11 at 9:11am

Oh, thank God taz because I went to Jarrods for Valentine's day! :=)

[PeterJamesZielinski]

Posted: 2/11/11 at 3:38pm

Alright, off topic, I didn't say "shouldn't be critical" I just said such massive animosity towards people who actually try to DO something as opposed to arm chair quarter back sucks sometimes. Being critical of art is imperative but the Spidey bandwagon is...well...a bandwagon.

It's so easy for anonymous people and sad_chubby_guy123 to condemn something and make broad statements about how these people should go to hell. Good or bad, at least these artists are out there doing it. And to be fair, yes the shows wouldn't exist if there wasn't audience an fans but it's still no reason just burn and pillage a show verbally and in writing because you simply don't prefer it.

And there's no gun to anyones head about ticket prices. If there wasn't a demand, supply would die out.

The thing that really irks me (get ready to pile on here, folks!) is that a lot of you think a preview is less valid than a regular performance.

As an equity actor, I can tell you that none of us takes a preview performance as if it were "a glorified dress rehearsal." There's an audience. It's real. You treat it as an actual performance because it is one. And before the masses yell "what have you done?!" It's all regional, a tour, and one off-Broadway show, so yes...meaningless to half of you. Must not actually BE an actor then. :) 30 second cameo on SVU?? That's it?! What an asshat! (and uncageg, I assure you this is said in jest, I'm not losing my **** here.)

As for these guys, you're seeing the same pro-level equity performers and union stage managers, crews, and musicians in a Broadway theater that you will when it opens. Will the ending change? Probably. Will there be cuts and / or other changes? Probably. Are these people phoning it in and sleep walking through the show? Hell no. Just because the show changes doesn't mean you're getting less of an experience. Why should you pay less? They're the real deal. In terms of the theater we have in New York, it's just about the highest level you can find....why do people feel like if a song might get cut, they're entitled to treat the experience like it's half-assed?

I'm not saying your required to love everything that comes out. Nor that you can't critique it. You should.

But in this case, there's just a mob-mentality-bandwagon-dickery as if Taymor and her cast punched a baby while it had its back turned that I can't quite wrap my head around.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/11/11 at 3:45pm

uncageg went to Jarrods.

uncageg went to Jarrods?

uncageg went to Jarrods!

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 2/11/11 at 3:46pm

"The thing that really irks me (get ready to pile on here, folks!) is that a lot of you think a preview is less valid than a regular performance."

So then please explain to us how it is professional to put a show on in front of a paying audience that has never been run through from start to finish and didn't even have an ending written yet.
Is that the new standard we should expect? Is that good for broadway?
I've been posting on these boards since the broadway.com days and I don't think I've railed against a show like this before. I've seen some bad shows...I'm looking at you Dance of the Vampirs and In My Life...but I've never left the theater angry before.

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 2/11/11 at 3:47pm

The Galleria of Jewelry?

[PeterJamesZielinski]

Posted: 2/11/11 at 3:57pm

Gotta be honest Erik, I don't know because I didn't see what you saw.

I can tell you from my own experience that a lot of times rehearsals run long and your first and second run throughs can end up being with preview audiences. That does happen. On my end I have no clue what it takes to put up a show like this or what kind of hurdles they have to jump over day to day. That's on them, yeah..but I don't know what it takes.

But I actually totally agree with you...Broadway should be held to the highest standard possible. And i've walked out of some stuff angry before, too. It's the point where the critiques go from angry about it and unhappy with the content to snarky, ugly, and downright mean to even personal that's just like....relax. It's musical.

[uncageg]

Posted: 2/11/11 at 4:11pm

:)

[PeterJamesZielinski]

Posted: 2/11/11 at 4:26pm

Really Rob? I can't write " **** " on this board but I can write bandwagon-dickery? :)

[tazber]

Posted: 2/11/11 at 4:37pm

Having not seen the show it should be noted that everything I'm writing here is based on reviews both professional and non.
This is how I perceive the situation. I could be 100% wrong, 100% right, or somewhere in the middle.


I suspect a lot of the negativity here is really frustration that Julie Taymor has seemed to just dismiss all constructive criticism. From what I've read (not just here but everywhere) she has this inability to realize (or admit?) that there are changes that could have been made that would have vastly improved the show.

She knows the second half is a mess. She knows the story (her story as she wrote it) is confusing. She knows that moments like "Deeply Furious" are not being received well and are alienating audiences. She knows The Geek Chorus slows the show and disperses focus.
She has commented on all this in various interviews.

Still, she steadfastly refuses to change, clarify, or alter anything significant.

(To her credit though she apparently did add an ending of some sort)

The result is that she comes across as a pompous artiste who won't pander to the masses. Which of course is totally fine for her because it's not her money.

Additionally, the fact that Bono and The Edge has chosen not to write/change any of their songs seems rather flippant.

I don't know why they have refused to work on their score, there may be valid reasons for all I know. But the fact that they publically said they were not going to work on their own show during the period when that's exactly what the should be doing is pretty obnoxious. I mean if they can't be bothered to care about their show, why should I?

The end result feels like them giving paying audiences the finger. "You'll like what we give you and be glad for it".

I'm glad that some people are loving it. And I certainly have no desire to see anyone out of a job. But I just can't understand why the creative team keeps shooting themselves in their collective feet.*

*All opinions expressed here are soley those of tazber and in no way are meant to imply that they are shared by anyone else.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 2/11/11 at 4:43pm

Well said Taz. Most of my anger is directed at the Producers though. Lord knows the actors on that stage deserve better.

[PeterJamesZielinski]

Posted: 2/11/11 at 5:01pm

We can't really know what's going on in her head

But really, in the media, you can't just come out and say, "yeah, things aren't going as smoothly as we hoped." "yes, it's an asspain to be under the constant scrutiny of the backlash" "yes, we were horrified at the injuries."

Instead the captain of a ship had to hold their **** together, keep their chin up, and push forward, again, good or bad...for the cast, for investors, for audiences, etc.

Even if the show was a flop (which I'm not saying it is) no one comes out and says "Yep, steaming pile guys. JK!"

[tazber]

Posted: 2/11/11 at 5:09pm

Well yea, no one expects her to come and say that the show sucks. But there is an entire spectrum of responses that could be given other than "I acknowledge that people have expressed certain misgivings but I choose to ignore them" (paraphrased)

I mean it's better to just say nothing.

Plus actions (or inactions in this case) speak louder than words.

[uncageg]

Posted: 2/11/11 at 5:14pm

Well now they are doing focus groups for feedback but each group can only see one act. This makes no sense to me. The groups can't see the show as a whole which, to me, defeats the purpose.

I think it is this kind of thing that fuels the speculation and negative talk about the show. JMO

[PeterJamesZielinski]

Posted: 2/11/11 at 5:14pm

Amen brother (er...or sister?). I'm with you.

But check out how we just had a normal discourse as opposed to 'that sucks! tee-hee LOL"

Wasn't that hard...if you and I can pull it off, surely some professional writers and producers could do it too.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 2/11/11 at 5:39pm

Focus grous that can only see one Act? What the hell are they thinking over there? Half the problem with the show is that Act I and Act II are almost completely different shows!

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 2/11/11 at 6:03pm

But now, they can say, "See?! We've put together a focus group!"


"We can't really know what's going on in her head"

But Scott Briefer can.

[uncageg]

Posted: 2/11/11 at 6:05pm

Here is the announcement:

https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/SPIDERMAN_Seeks_Feedback_from_Focus_Groups_20110211

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 2/11/11 at 6:47pm

I really wish I could hear what the poor souls who only see Act II think.

[marcblack]

Posted: 2/11/11 at 7:33pm

TheatreDiva90016, I really doubt they put together focus groups so they can say "See?! We've put together a focus group!". The producers could likely care less about appeasing members of this board or even the press. You have to remember producers actions are based off their desire to sell more tickets, not defending their show as if they were on trial. They're doing focus groups so they can collect information and possibly tweak portions of the show. Saying "we did a focus group!" won't sell anymore tickets, and means nothing to the average audience member.

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 2/11/11 at 7:39pm

The fact that the "focus groups" are only seeing one half of the show is as patently absurd as anything else surrounding this show. Useless.

[uncageg]

Posted: 2/11/11 at 7:52pm

taz, the woman can't even say the word accident regarding the accidents that happened, so that doesn't surprise me. She called it "That thing" that happened. That thing put a man in the hospital. That really irked me during the interview shew did.

[BobNotBob]

Posted: 2/13/11 at 10:44pm

I also noticed she couldn't say the name "TV Carpio".

[philly03]

Posted: 2/13/11 at 11:09pm

I like how she full out says "They had hardly put her (Mendoza) in the harness doing the role" and then she even says she had NO time in the harness before her first performance!

Spider-Man was very prepared for the safety! 98% of her performance was her being flown and she never got any rehearsal time in the role!!!!!! WOW!

[ravnquest1]

Posted: 2/14/11 at 2:24am

"Spider-Man was very prepared for the safety! 98% of her performance was her being flown and she never got any rehearsal time in the role!!!!!! WOW!"

This is actually not out of the ordinary or unusual for most shows. Understudies generally aren't rehearsed until after the show officially opens and is frozen. Previews/tech is spent dealing with the actual leads and changes to the show.

There just isn't time for understudy rehearsal. It's a roll-of-the-dice policy that you won't need a major cover until after opening, but it assumes you have a normal preview period, also. It's just another thing that Spider-Man has to contend with that most shows don't (huge preview period with lots of shows equals higher probability of needing understudies, but still no time to rehearse because the show isn't done).

[adamgreer]

Posted: 2/14/11 at 6:09am

This is actually not out of the ordinary or unusual for most shows. Understudies generally aren't rehearsed until after the show officially opens and is frozen. Previews/tech is spent dealing with the actual leads and changes to the show.

There just isn't time for understudy rehearsal. It's a roll-of-the-dice policy that you won't need a major cover until after opening, but it assumes you have a normal preview period, also. It's just another thing that Spider-Man has to contend with that most shows don't (huge preview period with lots of shows equals higher probability of needing understudies, but still no time to rehearse because the show isn't done).

But, as Queen Julie loves to remind us, this not your ordinary Broadway show. Arachne spends 98% of the show hanging from a wire either above the stage or audience. That's a little different than a typical performance, where you just hope the understudy remembers their lines and blocking.