Grey Gardens- Great Story/Bad Musical- Page 2

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 9:54am

I'm with you on Mary Louise & Erin, Rath. Erin especially hasn't been given her due. She nails Little Edies spaceyness and tension with her mother. But I was the same performance you were and I could tell that Christine is fighting a bug. She underplayed and undersang a touch through Act 1, and even held back a little in Act 2, only to give one of the most affecting performances of "Another Winter" I've ever heard, singing it more softly, almost to herself.

The couple next to me (visiting NYC for the first time from Glasgow) were very affected by her, wiping tears from thier eyes all through the number. As they got up, they turned to me, red-eyed and somewhat shattered and and said with big grins "We HAVE to see this again before we go home!"

Updated On: 2/20/07 at 09:54 AM

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 10:01am

Perhaps it's the contrast with Wilson - Ebersole is working at it - at everything. Wilson just IS. Same with Davie and McMartin - they just ARE the characters. They're not working at being them.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 12:06pm

I never once thought that Ebersole was working at being her character--either character.

[Mischief]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 1:48pm

I only thought it was OK. MAJOR FLAWS.

I didn't like Act 1 and didn't think it worked at all. Didn’t think is was necessary. Seemed just an excuse to make some in jokes about the Kennedys. The contrivance of both the women loosing their men in the same day came across very forced. It was embarrassing having the little girls and the old man appear in numbers in Act 2. The three group chorus numbers in Act 2 flopped on all levels. Cat's Eye View number with adults and kids "playing at" being cats was like bad community theatre. Horrible mistake!

I found Wilson's performance to be more moving and powerful than Ebersole. Didn't think Ebersole made sense of the character in Act 1. She was great in the opening number of Act 2, but overall I’d say Ebersole is overrated and Wilson is underated.

Matt Cavenaugh was TERRIBLE as Jerry in Act 2. Just awful. Little girls in Act 1 were nausuating and all toothy phoney Broadway Brats. Almost ruined the show. Jackie should have been an offstage character.

Thought they simplified the story too much because you got no sense that the mother and daughter actually loved each other - and needed each other. The way the musical represented it was that Little Eddie did not need her mother at all - which turned the story in to a melodrama about a baby bird with her wings clipped. The real story is much more complicated than that. Shame they didn't challenge themselves and try to take that on, rather than tell the story of a daughter who's life is ruined by a needy and domineering mother.

Songs much better in Act 2 than Act 1(with the exception of the community theatre chorus numbers with gramps and the girls).

Recommended? Maybe depends on what you're into. IMO what doesn’t work has a slight edge over what does work in the show/production.

Updated On: 2/20/07 at 01:48 PM

Posted: 2/20/07 at 1:59pm

People more attuned to things like Jersey Boys, Wicked, and the upcoming Pirate Queen probably wouldn't "get" Grey Gardens. It's an intelligent musical written, not for the current crowd of musical theatre devotees but for people with a little taste and maturity,

While I'm here, I want to mention that Eric Davie gives one of the best performances I've ever seen in this show and she seems to be mostly overshadowed by the embarassment of riches that this show contains.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 2:01pm

You need to proofread if you're going to be so condescending in your posts, Tom.

Her name is Erin.

[Danielm]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 2:24pm

Hi Queenbee, I'm just wondering if you could articulate what it was you didn't like about it--you sited mostly positives and then said you just didn't like it. Was it the music? The staging? The sets...? Did you just not like the treatment?

I haven't seen the musical yet, I will on my next NY trip but I have seen the documentary a few times. From what I've read about the musical it sounds like there is far more back story in it--while the past hangs over the documentary in a very real way they don't spell out so much of the story. Mostly it's a slice of life with these two women that doesn't go into the past further than what they say about themselves.

I think it would be helpful if you could say what it was you didn't like.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 3:25pm

Proofread is one word, dear.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 3:26pm

Shut up, Rath! You durty cahunt!

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 3:29pm

It's patheadic, dear. Not durty.

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 3:29pm

I like all types of theater, but to be honest with you Grey Gardens did absolutely nothing for me. I really wanted to like it, but I didn't. I liked Act I more than Act II, and I enjoyed the performance given by Erin Davie.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 3:30pm

As I was watching the other night, I was a little sad that Erin isn't getting the attention she deserves, and probably won't. It's too bad. Hopefully she's at least getting industry attention and will have a steady career.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 3:36pm

I thought Davie was fantastic in the show.

It's all the damn DIRTY ROTTEN SCOUNDRELS fans getting in the way.

Sorry, Rath. You cahunt.

[gumbo2]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 3:41pm

I went into the show expecting not to like it, ended up loving it, without having seen the documentary. I just thought it was very well crafted with great and heartbreaking performances.

p.s. So that person made a BWW name and everything just to yell at Rath? Awesome.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 3:47pm

Happens a lot, gumbo.

You should see the documentary.

[WithoutATrace]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 4:38pm

If I had not seen the documentary before seeing this show, I think I would have hated it. I still do not *love* the show, but I can appreciate it. So far, I've seen it twice and will probably not go back until the final performance (whenever that will be). As much as I tried to like Act 1, something about it still bothers me...plus I can't stand the new songs written for the Broadway version. I despise "Goin Places" and loved "Tomorrow's Woman." Act 2, on the other hand, is absolutely brilliant. Christine and Mary Louise Wilson are just perfect together...and I did not enjoy Erin Davie's performance very much. The rest of the cast was excellent.

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 4:52pm

I've heard a couple of songs from the show, Revolutionary Costume and Around the World, but I absolutley love them. They are fantastic songs. This show is number one on my list of shows to see when I visit NYC in the summer. I can't wait.

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 4:53pm

Rath, as I've said before in other GREY GARDENS threads, I agree very much with you about Davie's highly underrated performance. I particularly loved the way she kept fixing her dress, it was such an Edie thing to do. Her facial expressions were also fascinating to watch. I thought Ebersole was great but Davie isn't getting half of the notices she deserves.
I agree with WithoutATrace about Act I, it didn't really do it for me in terms of the music and the book. The songs around the piano were mostly annoying and I didn't see much point to them. I disliked "Goin' Places" but then again I also disliked "Better Fall Out of Love," I don't think the team came with a fully effective duet for Edie and Joe. I thought Cavenaugh and Davie work excellent together, they have chemistry and yet there's this sense of distance that hints at the fact that they'd never work as a couple.

[colored by esteem]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 5:45pm

Grey Gardens is awesome!

Super great.

[WalkOn]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 5:56pm

I adore GREY GARDENS. But my problem with the show is that Act One isn't the showcase for Big Edie that it needs to be. To me her character isn't explored as deeply as Little Edie's is. I think the authors made something of an error is focusing as much as they did on Little Edie in Act One.

I wanted to more examples of Big Edies insane self-centeredness. I wanted to see see how her behavior DIRECTLY drives everyone out of her life.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 6:50pm

aside from the fact that bid edie tries to turn the engagement party into a star concert for herself. aside from the fact that the characters refer to her history of doing this.

aside from the characters' references to big edie scaring off lil edie's suitors with flirtation and singing. aside from her doing so (regardless her intentions) in the act.

aside from the discussion about why she and her husband have such troubles and are doomed to divorce.


aside from the songs she chooses to sing to show how progressive she is, but are in actuality very offensive.

etc etc etc

I don't think people listen when they go to the theatre anymore...

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 2/21/07 at 6:15pm

I have to agree with Jerby. I think Grey Gardens is such a thrilling and bold piece of theatre because in many ways it is a hybrid. When I saw Grey Gardens, I really saw it as a "snaphot,a case study" almost like a mythology or fable being told. It is not exactly as linear as many musicals and the second act is really an intense examination of interpersonal dynamics of love and family. I think two camps of people are disapointed: those who LOVE the documentary and come seeking answers, and those expecting an "easy" musical with spoon-fed musical numbers and themes.

I was enamored with the risks taken. It really felt more like being a voyeur into the mythology of these two iconic women. I thought the subtle throughlines in the performances of Act One lead nicely to the sideshow aspects of Act 2. I think there is some disbelief by audience members to think that the women in Act One could not be the women in Act 2, but that is the tragic irony. I think Erin nicely plays both the repulsion and need for her mother and ultimately her inner need to comfort her mother ("Peas in a Pod"). I think Erin is overlooked as I was so moved by her performance. I was so disturbed when Little Edie in Act One was pretty much humiliated and left by her suitor for being a sexual being. Erin plays heartbreak so softly and nuanced. It is worth a close seat to see her eyes in those scenes. And as for Erin running down the stairs wrapped in a headscarf at the end of Act One, it sent chills down my spine. It was like seeing a ghost of the future to come. A thrilling end to an act, but not a "hot you over the head" moment.

As far as Act 2, which many seem to prefer, I agree it is a masterwork that does not pander to audience expectations, which make it a thrilling piece of theatre. It is unsavory, funny, sad, and often uncomfortable. It brings up things for the audience emotionally. Every family has a "special" relative like Little Edie. Everyone has experienced heartbreak, loss, grief, regret and made hard choices like Little Edie. Everyone has felt compelled to care for another like Little Edie. I think the bravado of Act 2 quickly winds down as Jerry brings the washing machine and you can hear a pin drop and Little Edie's soul is bared, exposing both her need and her regret, as well as her indignant commitment to mother dahling. This is where people begin to really resonate with Ebersole and make the evening so thrilling. However, a person has to be open to go there. The last moments of the show are heartbreaking and I cried. The show lingers and it is a conversation piece. It sparks debates, encourages more research and dialogue and opens up the world of these unique and mysterious women.

It was no small feat that Ebersole takes the audience from uncomfortable laughter ("Revolutionary Costume") to the quiet depths of the soul ("Another Winter.."). Big Edie and Little Edie held no magic powers, they were people like you and I. However, their willingness to be who they are on camera (the ultimate first "reality show" ) gave others permission to be who they are. Both women were surprising unashamed about who they were and how they lived and that made many people uncomfortable. That was there beauty. People could project their hopes and fears onto them.

I am sure both women would be delighted to know they still have a powerful hold and are creating division between theatre lovers. Now that is a S-T-A-U-N-C-H quality to this amazing piece of theatre.

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 2/21/07 at 6:40pm

Thanks, Betty, for your thoughtful comments. It's very clear that you love this show and appreciate just how special it is and how wonderful all the performances are.

[WalkOn]

Posted: 2/21/07 at 7:03pm

Jerby... most of the instances you mentioned are related to the audience second hand. Only once do we SEE Big Edie's behavior DIRECTLY cause someone to retreat.. and that is when she relates the Little Edie swimming story to Kennedy.

otherwise..

Her accompanisted decides to leave her because we are TOLD he is feels uncomfortable being kept.

Her husband leaves her because we are TOLD he can't tolerate her outlandish behavior.

The issue of her turning the engagement party into a concert is pretty much resolved within the first 20 minutes of the show. And that we are TOLD is pretty much standard behavior for Big Edie.

The authors tried to compress what would have happened over years in a matter of hours. Sometimes successfully, sometimes not.

Also, Big Edie doesn't have any great "want" in the first act. She goes along sort of blind to the disaster around her. I think she should "want" something dramatic. What that is, I don't know.

Contrast that to Little Edie in Act Two... who "wants" to leave GREY GARDENS.. the same thing she wanted in Act One.

I don't know how they could have solved the probelm... and yes, I think it is a problem. Like most brilliant but troubled pieces of work, the problems are more interesting that other show solutions.

I hope this convinces you that at least I listen when I go to the theatre.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 2/21/07 at 7:31pm

oh, I didn't realize you posted this as well as pm'd me. as I said there, I just don't agree with you on any of that. and, if u had stated those things instead of what was originally said, I wouldn't have accused you of not listening.

the fact is, the musical does address her flaws. you just don't agree with how the writers presented that.

and the woman clearly has wants. she wants to hold on to as much of her crumbling world as possible. she wants to protect her daughter. she wants to be loved and adored. I just don't agree with you analysis of the piece.