My thoughts on [title of show] (long)- Page 2

[BJC899]

Posted: 7/13/08 at 11:34am

was the "Change it-don't change it" section in any other incarnations of this show? I know it isn't on the CD....

Posted: 7/13/08 at 11:43am

to me..it's like forbidden broadway. you need to know A LOT about shows or people in the business...it will not gel well with tourists or young people if they have nothing to relate to. all these references will go over their heads. i personally loved the show. i got everything,...but...it doesn't belong on broadway.


Updated On: 7/13/08 at 11:43 AM

[dalefully]

Posted: 7/13/08 at 12:01pm

was the "Change it-don't change it" section in any other incarnations of this show? I know it isn't on the CD....

Yes, it was in the show off-Broadway and I'm not sure if it was in any earlier versions.

Anyhow, re the "Will it appeal to people not in on Broadway?" debate...I really think it will. Yes, there are a lot of obscure musical theatre references. But in the end, that's not really what the show was about. I know people who have never seen a Broadway show in their life, who know little to nothing about it all and completely loved [tos]. In fact, even if their might be a lot of it, most of the humor is not even about that. Whether or not you come in with that knowledge, I really don't think the main point of the show (or the main humor for that matter) will get lost on you.

[mikem]

Posted: 7/13/08 at 12:05pm

"That's just stupid. Professional actors cry all the time when they are moved by someting. . . Also, how can you say she cries every night? Do you see the show every night? Didn't think so."

bjh2114, why are you taking such an angry tone?

To respond, I do not think that most professional actors would break character and cry in the middle of the show on a regular basis. Heidi is playing a character in the show, she is not being herself. The character may be strongly based on her own life experiences, but she is still playing a character. It is one thing if Heidi the character is crying; it is a different thing if Heidi the actor is crying. My feeling is that Heidi the character is crying at that point in the show.

In terms of the frequency of her crying, it is true that I have not seen the show every night, but there have been at least 4 separate instances of her crying on different nights either reported on the boards or that I have heard from people at those performances out of the 8 or 10 performances so far. I have not heard anyone say that it did not happen at the performance they attended. I therefore assume that it is part of the staging.

I acknowledge I may be wrong on both counts.

Updated On: 7/13/08 at 12:05 PM

[Andergoat]

Posted: 7/13/08 at 12:30pm

To preface, I'll say that I haven't seen the show yet. I have the OOCR, but thought the music was a little weak, but I did enjoy the [tos] show, even if I felt it was a little too self-aware at times.

My thoughts are that the "insider-y" feel of the show will not be the problem. The most vitriolic responses I've seen about the show have been from self-proclaimed theater buffs (not so much here; more the turds at ATC) and several posters, albeit anecdotally, have posted about taking their clueless friends and having their clueless friends love it. I think people, even tourists, LOVE being in on an inside joke, so I don't think bad word-of-mouth is going to come from them.

My theory is that this show is going to struggle because it is very hard to market. I'm anticipating (based on nothing but my spidey-sense, to tell the truth) positive, but not overwhelming rave reviews. The producers and creators are very clever, so maybe they'll come up with something, but I think it'll ultimately suffer the fate of "Passing Strange" and numerous smaller shows before--it's really, really hard to market to niche audiences, yet still seem inclusive enough for the general public. I don't think The Long Tail applies to the theater world yet.

[MungoGypsy8232]

Posted: 7/13/08 at 1:01pm

I'm glad I'm not the only who sees what a rising Jackie Hoffman she is. She'd be an awesome replacement for her in Xanadu and would be a wonderful Prudy/Gym Teacher/Matron in Hairspray!

[SNLMedia]

Posted: 7/13/08 at 2:26pm

MungoGypsy8232, Susan once told me that she actually auditioned for those roles in Hairspray. I agree, she'd be perfect.

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 7/13/08 at 5:37pm

I don't buy the "it's hard to market" aspect. If they managed to sell shows about puppets and humans cohabiting; youngsters in a spelling bee; druggies and gays with AIDS, they can certainly sell a show about 4 people wanting to write a musical.

[Andergoat]

Posted: 7/13/08 at 6:51pm

Yeah, maybe you're right--Spelling Bee, Ave. Q, and Rent all used what was weird about them as a hook (although they all got strong reviews as well and Rent had the added aura of Larson's untimely death). [tos] really needs to come up with a better marketing angle--maybe the whole meta-ness of a show about writing a show about writing a show is unique to theater (although I can think of a few "behind the scenes" shows), but it's certainly not new to TV or movies and I don't think as a unique concept to general audiences.

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 7/13/08 at 8:07pm

Just as an aside, in thinking about it, I've decided the "Change it/Don't change it" sequence is very striking...especially having Heidi repeat it over and over after Sutton's message.

[Natch]

Posted: 7/13/08 at 11:40pm

Yankeefan007 - not to drag on your aside, but I agree. The part where Heidi repeats "change it don't change it" after the message seriously pulls on my heart strings. It's a really powerful moment.

that being said I agree with most of the positive comments in this thread and disagree with most of the negative ones ;P I do think [tos] may need to take somewhat of a different approach to marketing, but I do not think it is too insidery to appeal to a wider range of audiences. My best friend and fellow [tosser] ;P and I brought two of his friends to see it who were up from Texas. Both of them LOVED it, and for one of them, it was only his second broadway show (1st being rent a few nights before) and he is definitely not a broadway/theater person at all.

I could go on and into many more specifics... but this is such a heavily discussed topic right now that I think I won't, at least, not now.

[jasonf]

Posted: 7/14/08 at 12:00am

I love the lines in the show about forming an opinion without having seen it. I think the show absolutely NAILED much of the theater culture, which is what I especially enjoyed about it. My fiancee and I are theater geeks - and we both loved it. My parents are average theater goers - maybe four or five shows a year, have a handful of cast albums, but otherwise leave the theater world alone. My mother was bored but my father LOVED it. He didn't get all the references by any means (hell, I didn't get all the references and I'm closing in on 2000 cast album recordings), but that didn't detract from his enjoyment.

So first, don't make a judgment about the show till you've seen it. Second, I think there's the potential for audiences to really like it regardless of their theater background. 3/4 of the jokes are generic enough that the audience WILL understand them, and anyone with any creative strains at all can relate to "Die Vampires Die."

And the Original Musical number is EASILY one of the funniest songs in any Broadway show. I'm just glad they got rid of the 1776 joke which, though it's one of my favorite shows, I never got...

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 7/14/08 at 7:40am

What's the lyric? You tell nine people who tell nine people...something like that?

[dancingthrulife04]

Posted: 7/14/08 at 10:27am

I enjoyed the show a lot more than you did, but I agree that Heidi’s crying is weird. Heidi cries like that every single night, and I think it must be staged. She is too professional to let her emotions carry her away like that every single performance unless that is the reaction desired by the director. I agree with you completely that is so out of proportion to the other actors' reactions that it is jarring.



Maybe it was because I only saw the second preview, but Heidi's reaction didn't seem so out of proportion to everyone else's. They were all in tears by the end.

Anyway,

I appreciate your very well written criticism, even if I completely disagree with you. I fell in love with the show when I saw it last weekend. I do agree with what you said about "Change It/Don't Change It" and having Heidi repeat the lines after Sutton's message.

As far as the show being too "insidery" - yes, a lot of people are not going to get the jokes. However, I do think that people will still be able to relate to the themes of the show. Even if you've never set foot on a stage in your life, you've still had some kind of dream that you wanted to see happen.

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 7/14/08 at 10:37am

I just think the show opened way too soon to be able to hold onto their momentum by the time the Tonys come around. It's like Xanadu.

[jaystarr]

Posted: 7/14/08 at 3:46pm

First and foremost- thank you, yankeefan for an honest review> I enjoyed reading all your reviews!

Second, I have this almost twilight zone story..as most of you know, I am supposed to see [title of show] last saturday too at 3pm. I did not make it to the show! I took the 930 bus (Lucky Star) and on the way to NYC in Hartford, CT. The bus had a tire blow out! SUCH AN UNFORTUNATE THING! Since we are on Highway 91. (2 hours away from Boston and NYC) we waited to 2 hours for the other bus to come..It came at 2:30 ~we arrived in NYC at 430 pm.

Its funny bec. I took the Fung Wah bus last year almost 33 times and I NEVER had incident like that! Let's go back-REWIND... at 928 am..when I arrived at South Station in Boston, I was ACTUALLY supposed to take the 10 AM bus (there's bus that departs every 30 secs to NYC) but I DECIDED (that split of a second) why dont I take the 930 am...I went to the Fung Wah but they were fully booked and told me~to take the 10am, SO (this is the funny thing) decided for the 1st time to TRY the other bus LUCKY STAR to take the 930 am (since they are not full!) I thought of getting a breakfast first and just take the 10am at Fung Wah (my regular bus) I took a chance and decided to board the UNLUCKY bus.

The bus that had a flat tire at Hartford, CT. and we waited for 2 hours for the next bus to come. We arrived in NYC at 430. of course.. I MISSED the show! (its only 90 minutes) I was thinking of catching the 8 pm, but I was tired and HUNGRY ( I have not ate since 8 am, its 430 pm now!) so I decided to go to my favorite restaurant in Chinatown and eat.. I decided to take the 5 pm bus and GO HOME (fung Wah bus this time) and was home at 9 pm. I was soo upset! but I guess, its bound to happen! Good thing..Nothing happen to me!

The 'weirdest' thing about this is..somehow there's a formula: ( I really dont believe in JINXing) but my 1st show of the season and another thing...are you ready for this? if I happen to see it same time with yankeefan- would end up not seeing the show! (its a joke!)

last year : Xanadu (my 1st show) + me + yankeefan= cancellation due to stage malfunction!



this year : [title of show] (my 1st show) + me + yankeefan= I missed the show due to bus.


(My tickets are thru TDF)

Of course.. I am just kiddin' ... Its just a funny IDEA to think that I cannot watch my 1st show of the season the same time with yankeefan or else?? COINCIDENCE?

Actually, I saw Mauritius last year same time with him... so I guess the next time I watched my 1st show for the new season, I will make sure I will check on yankee first, if he is watching the same show! At least he end-up seeing the show bec. last year we end-up BOTH not seeing the show!

I thought I share my 'weird experience" two years in a row, and there's no such things as "jinx", but it did happen to me! lol! (and yankee knows better that I am just kiddin' .. I would definitely want to see a show with him....not the 1ST show of the season! and I will end my post similar to yankee's opening....

Forgive me for being so superstitious!




J*






Updated On: 7/14/08 at 03:46 PM

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 7/14/08 at 4:07pm

Jay, that's freaky!!

Maybe I am a jynx!

[jaystarr]

Posted: 7/14/08 at 4:14pm

I guess.. you + me + 1st show of the season = jinx!

(this will be another theater superstitous like cannot say the good luck on opening day and macbeth in a theater!)


No. bec. we saw MAURITIUS same time, remember? I think its just the 1st show, so make sure you tell me when are you seeing the 1st show! or could be we cannot see a MUSICAL together???

J*




Updated On: 7/14/08 at 04:14 PM

[fvalle24]

Posted: 7/14/08 at 5:41pm

I wanted to add my two cents. I think that the appeal of the show, not knowing the inside jokes can make the audience hungry for knowledge. There is a lot of reference to theatre, some that people know and others that they don't. How many people have wikipedia'd some of the shows references to better understand them? I have done that several times; I love the show.

About the crying, Heidi mentioned that she does get very emotional in a Diva Talk interview on Playbill.com. It's natural I think, her character is her. She's not playing a fictional character. If this show goes on to live on Broadway for 5 years or so Heidi will live on with it. People will know Heidi's life.

Jeff and Hunter are the most adorable people ever. Their excitement is genuine and fresh, and I believe that's what Broadway needs. They are extremely grateful for the experience and I think that transpires in the shows performance...

That’s my two cents

[ZiggyCringe]

Posted: 7/14/08 at 11:40pm

Yankeefan,

I saw the show tonight, and I think your review was rather spot on.

For all of you who "didn't get the references," I'm a big old show queen, and I got all the references. But even though I "got" the references, they often weren't that amusing. Honestly. And it annoyed me, in a way, because the authors kept talking about how they didn't want to "dumb the show down." An admirable thing. But frankly, although I got all the references, they weren't always equitably disbursed.

However, I felt the show generally worked. And the "Vampire" number was genius. There is not another musical number in history that says what it says, either musically or lyrically. It was sensationally smart, and moving at the same time. Also, the "Photo Shoot" number (which you referenced) was not just horrifyingly honest, it was entertaining.

I do disagree with you on one thing. Heidi has the voice, but the show belongs to Susan, IMO.

Overall, I'm on the fence about this one. I admired it. But I often wished it had been better.

That said, it was honestly a better show than anything that opened On Broadway last season.

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 7/14/08 at 11:45pm

"Heidi has the voice, but the show belongs to Susan, IMO."

I agree with this. I loved Heidi, but Susan was really the highlight of the show.

"How about Color Me Susan?"

[mikem]

Posted: 7/14/08 at 11:58pm

Have TDF prices gone up $15 since May 2007? That's a 50% increase in one year. Wow.

[BrianS]

Posted: 7/15/08 at 2:27am

I went into this show knowing literally nothing about it. I definitely laughed a lot and there were some very moving moments.

I disagree that you need inside knowledge of the current Broadway scene to have a good time. Sure, it helps, but a lot of the jokes and the overall tone of the show play with how formulaic so many shows are in the broad canon of musical theater. I think anyone who has either performed regionally or (even better in this particular case) had to sit through their children's mediocre productions of these shows will enjoy a lot of these jokes.

I hope it succeeds on Broadway, but it's a tough sell. Unfortunately, it's just so hard these days to get tourists to try something unknown and even though I had a great time, I don't know that the show warrants Broadway ticket prices. Then again, because the plot is about getting to see what these people went through to get the show as far as they have I find myself rooting for it. Hopefully, because the demand for that theater isn't that great and with what have to be incredibly small operating costs, their nut will be so low that they can survive being just 9 people's favorite thing.

Updated On: 7/15/08 at 02:27 AM

[Insider2]

Posted: 7/15/08 at 11:22am

Wow.

I saw this "show" last night, and I was afraid to make any negative comments about it thinking that everyone on here was going to just be gushing about how amazing it is.

I definitely agree with Yankeefan on this, as well as most of the other not-so-gushing comments within this thread.

I was so annoyed watching this thing. It is so snarky and full of itself, and yet, why does this warrant 90 long minutes of anyone's time?

So we can see how much theatre trivia the creators can toss around?

So we can turn to our partners and laugh knowingly each time they make an inside joke because we are so proud of ourselves that we are smart enough to get the jokes?

So we can listen to melodies that are not exactly complex, melodious, or well...very good, and lyrics that are substandard, at best?

So we can watch some rather green performers perform with the genuine excitement of being on Broadway for the first time?

This thing belongs at the Duplex or something, for $20.00 and a 2 drink minimum. It does not belong on a Broadway stage for a hundred+ bucks. Lubricated with a couple of drinks, and knowing that one did not just spend the farm on a ticket, this would be a fairly enjoyable way to trifle away some time. But Broadway? No way. No how.

This is another sad example of lunatic producers dragging a show to Broadway that does not belong on Broadway, and it is the poor creators who are going to pay the price. Once all the plants, and paper and shills and shrieking friends are out of the audience in two months or less, these poor souls are going to be performing in a ghost town.

I suspect that it will receive decent, but cool reviews, but that there is not going to be an audience to support this musical. If Passing Strange could not pull in more than 40% capacity on an average week, how is this thing going to make it? I believe at present, title of show is pulling in just over 52% capacity, according to grosses, July 7-13.

While mildly entertaining to a crowd that knows the New York theatre scene, this is a show that will be pure torture to tourists and those without direct knowledge of the ins and outs of theatre.

I am just baffled. I have no idea what these producers were thinking.

[Kaybee]

Posted: 7/15/08 at 11:51am

Okay, I've held my tongue for long enough on this thread. I have been holding myself back from posting for days now--a [wise man] once told me that fighting online is like the special olympics, you may win but the end you are still retarded. (Awful I know, but a very useful analogy.)

But I would just like to put my two cents in here. Many of you know that I am a proud supporter of this little engine that could called [title of show], and while I appreciate a well spoken, well thought out opinion of the show, I feel like many of you are missing the point here...

Insider2, I just can't believe that you missed the message of this show all together. Yes, there are insider-y references but in no way is this piece "snarky" or "full of itself." quite the opposite actually-

When you sit in that Broadway house you are amidst a dream coming true, and not just any dream, the dream of the people up on that stage. The people who for the last 90 mins plus, you have watched journey through ups and downs and have a human like quality to approaching life and following your dreams and getting what you want.

So there you are, sitting in this theatre watching these people you now see as "YOU" or people "YOU KNOW" documenting every step of the pursuit--and yet in that VERY moment, that moment in which you are sitting there in your plush, bouncy lyceum full seat that dream is ACTUALLY COMING TRUE.

For me, and for many others like me that's enough to make every hair on the back of the neck stand straight up.

It's a human story, not just for theatre lovers everywhere, but for anyone that has ever thought about achieving a goal that may have seemed out of reach. It's about cultivating the person within each one of us-that hopes to step outside of the limitations we put upon ourselves and step into a spotlight (metaphorical spotlight.)
I think this piece of theatre, this art form will you, has the power to touch MANY people, accountant or actor--13 years old or 93 years old. It's relatable.

I also find it cheap for anyone to take a crack at a producer who puts themselves out on the line the way Mr McCollum has now with [title of show] and throughout his entire career. The fact that an independent producer is thriving in this corporate world, excites and inspires me. The fact that so many producers have been such a driving force behind this show and have worked through development and cultivating for this giant leap is incredible. I applaud anyone who [believes] in something so much to put it out there as a perfectly wrapped gift for people like us, to rip open and pick apart.

AND in defense of the most beautiful, talented and sweetest person I have ever met...Ms Heidi Blickenstaff--I would like to see ANY of you go out there on a broadway stage after dreaming a specific dream for 5 years-- dreaming AND pouring your blood sweat and tears into that dream-- I'd like to see any of you go out on a stage in front of a thousand people and share that dream with them and then stand on the foot of the stage; bare and ready for those people to take your dream in. I'd like to see you fight the tears. It's natural I promise, not staged not meant to tug at your heartstrings, but honest salty tears...

xo
kb