MCC to produce Off-Broadway CARRIE revival in 2011-2012- Page 3

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 10/7/10 at 11:53am

I think she might even be able to outsing Buckley in the role.
The very idea of it gets my pants tight!!

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 10/7/10 at 12:13pm

There's a lot of stuff mentioned in this thread that I wanted to touch on, so my thoughts will be scattered.

Whenever I hear the word "humanizing" applied to something, it's always with the connotation of softening or making something less unpleasant. That's the impression I get when I read they want to "humanize" Margaret.

I would agree that perhaps Margaret's motivations should be better fleshed out, but I don't think the book is going to give much help. Almost everything about Margaret in that book is "second-hand" information. While there are many details of her religious mania and speculation as to what drove her to it, it's short on "facts" (facts in the world of the book, I mean) The one telling thing that stands out for me is a letter she writes in the book about marrying and living sinlessly that "if there is to be issue, let it be divine." I know there are there are people who believe in "sinless" marriage and stuff like that, but the musical really does give you impression that getting dumped by Carrie's father is behind Margaret's insanity.

By the time it got to Broadway, were there lines about Margaret's mother (or grandmother) having "the power"? I know I remember reading that in an older script. I can't remember if it was in the Broadway version or in the recent reading.

I wonder if Don't Waste the Moon would be more palatable if the orchestrations were different and it wasn't a big dance number.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 10/7/10 at 12:20pm

In a very early version of the script from around 84/85 i think something was mentioned about Carrie's Grandmother but like so much of the actual story and great book scenes it was dropped

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 10/7/10 at 12:21pm

I think a reorchestration of "Dont Waste the Moon" could definitely save it. It's the most '80s sounding song in the score, which is it's biggest problem, imo.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 10/7/10 at 12:28pm

Thanks, songanddanceman2, I bet that's the script I'm thinking of.

[wonderwaiter]

Posted: 10/7/10 at 1:27pm

"Judy Kuhn for Margaret please..."

[philly03]

Posted: 10/7/10 at 1:32pm

"I think a reorchestration of "Dont Waste the Moon" could definitely save it. It's the most '80s sounding song in the score, which is it's biggest problem, imo."

What's worse was "Wotta Night"!

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 10/7/10 at 1:44pm

True Philly...also "In".

[romgitsean]

Posted: 10/7/10 at 1:45pm

"Whenever I hear the word "humanizing" applied to something, it's always with the connotation of softening or making something less unpleasant. That's the impression I get when I read they want to "humanize" Margaret."

Thank you, Phyllis. That's exactly what I thought when I read that. While we're on the subject of Margaret's "motivations", let's review them. (Courtsey of Wiki:)

"In the novel, Margaret is a heavyset woman with hair that has recently gone from black to almost all white. She has rimless bifocals, and is usually cloaked in black. She works full time at a laundry and has held her job for many years. Born Margaret Brigham, her father was killed in a shootout, and she began attending a fundamentalist church group. Her mother remarried, at which Margaret denounced them, believing that they were living in sin.

In 1960, she met her soon-to-be husband, Ralph White. Margaret later tells Carrie she had sex with Ralph before marriage and then fell down the stairs to have a miscarriage. They married and Ralph vows their 'slip' will never happen again. However, Ralph tries to seduce Margaret before being thrown out the house. He returns, drunk and has sex with Margaret in a bizarre form of marital rape that Margaret both hated and loved. This resulted in the conception of Carrie. When Margaret caught Carrie suspending her bottle in midair, she tried to kill her, but Ralph stopped her. Sometime after Carrie's birth, Ralph was killed while working at a construction site.

Margaret gave birth to Carrie while in her house, without medical assistance. Her relationship with Carrie was extremely abusive. This deeply affected Carrie throughout the years, putting great strain on her. Whenever Margaret believed that Carrie had sinned, she threw her in a specially decorated closet to pray for forgiveness (for example, when Carrie had her first menstrual period at the age of 16)."

Alright, so I will give you that while her motivations are vaguely stated because of her relationship with Ralph in "I Remember How Those Boys Could Dance", they are extremely vague, and makes it almost appear that Margaret had troubled relationships/experiences with *multiple* men. The marital rape should most certainly be clarified (as it is in the 1976 version when Carrie comes home).

However, when Margaret explains this to Carrie (in the book and the 76 version, along with haunting organ music to accompany) she uses this as a form of manipulation. Margaret uses this sob story to lure Carrie to her, (the objective is making Carrie feel guilty for underestimating her mother) and as an act of madness (convinced that Carrie is using powers of the Devil), she stabs Carrie during a prayer.

Because Margaret uses her sob story as means of luring Carrie to her as a mad act of murder, she loses all sympathy from me.

Sure, horrific, awful things happened to her, and in another situation- HAD she said all of this to Carrie in confidence (with no intentions of murder whatsoever), and Carrie still killed her- that would make Carrie the villain. But this is not the case.

I feel bad for Margaret in the sense that she is a clearly derranged woman with a dark past and her religious views have even further warped her perception of reality, but at the same time, because of this, she cannot feel any true sympathy for Carrie's downfall. In her mind, she told Carrie all along, and since she believes Carrie is the antichrist, she deserved her fate of ridicule.

Margaret can also be portrayed more or less evil depending on how mousey/sympathetic the girl playing Carrie is.

I know this was really long and entirely too over analytical, I just wanted to further communicate my point.

As one final question though, the book describes Margaret as:

"a heavyset woman with hair that has recently gone from black to almost all white. She has rimless bifocals, and is usually cloaked in black"

Although Buckley is nowhere NEAR heavyset, since the book's description portrays Margaret as a lot older (or at least, one of those people who looks older than she is)...so could Buckley revive her role, believably?

I think so. :)

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 10/7/10 at 1:58pm

Still the definitive Margaret White, Piper Laurie was clearly playing her as a woman who wanted--no, NEEDED--to get laid very, very badly.

[tourboi]

Posted: 10/8/10 at 4:35am

I still say in a perfect world they'd offer it to Maureen McGovern.

[newintown]

Posted: 10/8/10 at 1:34pm

I can't help thinking that this glut of serious attention paid to analyzing Carrie is something like writing a dissertation on "Pat the Bunny," seeking art and meaning where there is none.

Having seen the original and worked on a concert about 10 years ago, it seems pretty clear that Michael Gore is a pop hack who can write a passable ultra-simple pop tune, and Dean Pitchford is the same as wordsmith and storyteller. They are Walmart creators - that's to say they can do acceptable but shabby work.

Attempting to turn this into a significant piece of musical theatre would be like performing an episode of "Hee-Haw" in Carnegie Hall with the Berlin Philharmonic. It was fun as an inadvertent piece of camp nonsense on Broadway, but it's just not what the creators think it is - a serious and well-written show.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 10/8/10 at 3:59pm

I can't speak for anyone else, but I just enjoy discussing it. It's fun to analyze and speculate. I never get tired of it. Just like many others never tire of breaking down every version of Follies. You say "potato" and I say "french fries". And I disagree that their work on Carrie is "shabby". It has some shabby moments, but I think much of the score is exciting, fresh, dramatic and memorable.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 10/8/10 at 8:59pm

Newintown
I could not disagree more
Over half of the score for Carrie was wonderful with some great writing. A few of the pop numbers were a mess but with songs like Eve Was Weak, I Remember, Evening Prayers, When Theres No One, Carie etc i think the score had a lot to offer

[MrMidwest]

Posted: 10/8/10 at 10:15pm

My dream Margaret:

[tourboi]

Posted: 10/9/10 at 6:18am

Newintown, how nice for you to have seen it on Broadway, and been in an illegal concert. I tip my hat to you. But don't you think it grossly unfair of you to state your opinion of the writers and material as though its the gospel truth and that anyone who thinks otherwise is just wrong?

You don't like the show or think it has potential? That's fine. I respect that. But one should also respect the opinions of others.

[Disneyland Magic Man]

Posted: 10/9/10 at 3:23pm

I just saw a concert production of the show at a college in LA. The students in it were alright, but the audience ate it up. I heard people talking afterwards, and only a few had known Carrie before seeing it that night.

Before the show they announced that it was being revived. I saw it on Tuesday, the day they announced the theatre. People were genuinely excited.

They included some different things in the production as well. A Night We'll Never Forget and a duet for Sue and Carrie at the end.

[romgitsean]

Posted: 10/9/10 at 3:52pm

Really now? I'd like to have been at THAT concert. Did it have much of the new music? How did you guys get the sheet music for it to begin with??

[philly03]

Posted: 10/9/10 at 5:01pm

I'm with NEWinTOWN on this one... Carrie isn't and shouldn't be taken as this huge serious piece of theatre. It's campy, and that's fine - roll with it, don't try to turn this into some life altering thing.

"Over half of the score for Carrie was wonderful with some great writing. A few of the pop numbers were a mess but with songs like Eve Was Weak, I Remember, Evening Prayers, When Theres No One, Carie etc i think the score had a lot to offer"

"When There's No One" is a pretty tune, but some weird lyrics

5 songs is probably about a fifth of the score, and can in no way make up for songs like "Wotta Night" ("Alright, wotta night!"), "It Hurts to Be Strong" ("Then I made a choice by raising my voice/Now I’m all alone in my song,
You know how that feels? It hurts to be strong"), "Out for Blood" ("It's a simple little gig, you help me kill a pig; And then I've got some plans for the blood."), "etc"

I actually like the original "In" and think it works, minus the costumes.


"Carrie" doesn't scream to be musicalized, and the fact they still think it could work after failing so colossally back in the '80s... I just don't know how you can recover (or how it even got as far as it did).

It baffles me more than my love for Frank Wildhorn musicals at what is so appealing about Carrie The Musical.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 10/9/10 at 5:14pm

MrMidwest, is that Nancy from Heart? Or is it Ann Rice?

[Auggie27]

Posted: 10/9/10 at 7:33pm

Maureen McGovern did one of the early workshops. I've heard it, she was vocally strong, but there wasn't much going on underneath. (Her "Eve Was Weak" is musically sound but lacking that scary dimension that even Barbara Cook found.)

I'd be happy with Mazzie.

I think all of the posts about softening Margaret are on point. This is a story of an abused child. It's the basis for the entire story, really. She's picked on, and bullied, because her mother has created a shame-based context to raise a child, and created an outcast. If Margaret has a whiff of healthy parenting -- aside from loving her, which is a different discussion -- Carrie loses the crucible from which her powers explode. It's all in King, efficiently set forth as posters have noted. "Humanizing her" suggests looking for reasons to explain the abuse I hope. Not eliminate it. We live in a world where parents do monstrous things to children in the name of "raising" them. I hope they keep that component of this pivotal, story-determining character.

IMO, "When There's No One" does the job handily of explaining both her love for her daugher and her shame-based justification for delivering the ultimate time out. It's a gorgeous song, all the richer for being horrific and deeply moving. It never ceases to stun me with its power.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 10/9/10 at 7:53pm

"Carrie" doesn't scream to be musicalized, and the fact they still think it could work after failing so colossally back in the '80s... I just don't know how you can recover (or how it even got as far as it did"

Well you are missing the point then of what makes a musical.
Take away the special powers and what you have is a story that can easily be seen as musical, the large themes, the character arc types, love and revenge etc, it's perfect for a musical, it just needs to be done right. Many of the songs from the original Carrie hit the right tone, even some of the teen songs (Do Me A Favor and In) but the book was reduced to a series of musical cues, thats what they need to work on. The book needs to be dark, focus more on the themes the movie did. The bullying and humiliation and the confused home life and a daughter who just wants to be like everybody else

Carrie is great material for a musical, much more so than Cats, Starlight Express, Wonderland etc

[philly03]

Posted: 10/9/10 at 8:25pm

Well it didn't matter... the powers were hardly mentioned in the musical, and it still failed?

Starlight Express was original... Cats was basically a Variety show-esque (based on poems)... Neither have legions of fans that try to decide what Lloyd Webber was trying to show off them. They also took care of their jobs: they both had incredible runs in London; and Starlight had a fairly OK run on B'way.

Wildhorn's WONDERLAND took ASPECTS & Characters of Lewis Carroll's books and used them as a backdrop of an ORIGINAL story.

I suppose "Napoleon The Musical" was great material for a musical because it had "large themes, character arc types, love and revenge" .. it just wasn't done right in Toronto or London.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 10/9/10 at 9:22pm

Napoleon is a tad different from Carrie, Carrie is a small story, an intimate assult on a young girl from every direction of her life.

Starlight was original......but about trains...talking trains, that is hardly material for a musical, cats was about talking cats and had no story, same thing again, Wonderland is based on material that looks less adapatable for the stage than Carrie does, same with many of Wildhorns other shows.

You don't like Carrie, fair enough, but to say it doesnt 'Scream to be musicalized' from someone who will defend Jekyll and Hyde etc is just silly.

What may look at first not to be right for a musical just needs to be looked at a little closer. So it didnt fully work last time, so they are trying again, good on them.Many believe in the show and saw a lot of good in it covered in muck, it's good they are trying again. Hell of people just gave up after something didnt work then Wildhorn would have gone years ago.

[Idiot]

Posted: 10/9/10 at 9:34pm

If Michael Gore by any chance is reading this thread.... I'm the guy who met with you and Dean YEARS ago at the Peninsula in LA about re-staging CARRIE. It's killing me that you're finally doing it... but there's an excellent show in there and I hope it's a big, bloody hit.

(Gore is one of the nicest show people I've ever met.)
Updated On: 10/9/10 at 09:34 PM