Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?- Page 3
Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
#50re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 9:15amMiss Saigon....hands down....beautiful music, great story.
Jack: For your information, most people who meet me do not know that I am gay.
Will: Jack, blind and deaf people know you're gay. Dead people know you're gay.
Jack: Grace, when you first met me, did you know I was gay?
Grace: My dog knew.
#51re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 9:19amI prefer Les Miserables. It had a very cinematic feel about it. I am still amazed at the stagecraft, lighting, and music. I'm thinking of seeing it again in NYC this summer.
#52re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 9:43am
LES MIZ is my favorite of all time. But I adore MISS SAIGON. They have both been a BIG part of my life for as long as I can remember.
LES MIZ, though, if I *HAD* to choose 
"TO LOVE ANOTHER PERSON IS TO SEE THE FACE OF GOD"- LES MISERABLES---
"THERE'S A SPECIAL KIND OF PEOPLE KNOWN AS SHOW PEOPLE... WE'RE BORN EVERY NIGHT AT HALF HOUR CALL!"--- CURTAINS
ashley0139
Broadway Legend Joined: 1/3/05
#53re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 11:12amI'm comparing to totally different things, because I have seen Les Miserables on stage, but I never got to see Miss Saigon. But I prefer Les Mis. I always seem to connect to it more emotionally. It's always stuck with me more than Miss Saigon has. But I might feel differently if I were to see Miss Saigon. But I do love both.
"This table, he is over one hundred years old. If I could, I would take an old gramophone needle and run it along the surface of the wood. To hear the music of the voices. All that was said." - Doug Wright, I Am My Own Wife
Colle
Broadway Star Joined: 2/13/06
#54re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 2:10pmI like both, I think both have beautiful music and are emotional stories, but my favorite is probably Les Miserables. Overall, there are more songs that I like in Les Mis and the music and emotion of the story makes up(for me)for any flaws in the lyrics or score.
#55re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 2:23pmI like both shows, but Les Miz has the better score (which isn't saying much). Miss Saigon has some pretty music, but those lyrics...yikes. Clunky to say the least. I loved the Forbidden Broadway parody, they equate the lyrics to Hallmark cards. Hilarious. The best thing about that show was that it gave us Lea Salonga. Ultimately, it's storyline is kind of sexist and a bit racist. A bitter pill to swallow for some "pretty music" and a cool scene with a helicopter. IMHO.
SporkGoddess
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/27/05
#56re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 2:31pmMiss Saigon actually improves greatly on the racism and sexism from Madama Butterfly. If you think it's bad, see the original opera. Yikes.
Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!
#57re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 2:36pmI prefer Miss Saigon, I can't stand Les Miz, but none of them are masterpieces.
"People have their opinions and that doesn't mean that their opinions are wrong or right. I just take it with a grain of salt because opinions are like as*holes, everyone has one".
-Felicia Finley-
#58re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 2:40pm
LOVE Les Mis. Like Miss Saigon (but I actually prefer Martin Guerre to Miss Saigon).
And, just my 2 cents on this one...something can be sex- and race-RELATED without BEING sexist or racist.
#59re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 2:40pmWell, at least when the opera was written there wasn't any sort of heightened awareness to those subjects. MS was written in the late 80's and presented in the early 90's, when we all should've expected more from this silly entertainment.
#60re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 2:42pmSo, we're not supposed to do shows about racist and sexist time periods?
SporkGoddess
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/27/05
#61re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 2:44pmIt's hard to do an updated Madama Butterfly without a Butterfly, so the characterization of Kim was rather limited. Though, honestly, I don't find Kim a sexist portrayal of women in the least. She is a very strong woman, and I don't think that I could have survived what she all underwent. Plus, at least Kim was waiting for a man who loved her.
Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!
#62re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 2:45pmThat's not what I said, and yes of course we should. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a Caroline, or Change.
#63re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 2:47pmNot to love her, but to rescue her. That is not a strong character, and Chris is so unlikable as to be almost a villian.
ben4
Stand-by Joined: 6/10/07
#64re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 2:48pm
That's not what he's saying. He's saying the show itself is racist and sexist. Which I somewhat agree on. I mean all the stuff with Kim desperately wanting her child to live in america. The kids already had a father abandon him, who's to say he'll do better off as a motherless child in the US? And the american's never really held accountable for his actions (Cheating with a VA prostitute and never even trying to contact her after the end of the war).
Not to mention the casting of the British Jonathan Pryce as an Asian (Even if he is meant to be half-breed).
Like I've said before, Miss Saigon is great if you can ignore the subtext underneath it all.
#65re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 2:49pmThen I guess I didn't understand what you said. How do you feel Miss Saigon is sexist and racist?
#66re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 2:54pm
I know he said the show itself is racist and sexist. I just don't understand why he thinks that. I think it deals with racism and sexism, but certainly doesn't make advocating statements for either one.
Chris didn't even know the child existed when he left. How exactly did he abandon him? And Chris didn't "cheat" with Kim. He only met Ellen after he returned home. And he does sing lyrics about how much he tried to contact Kim later.
Did you even SEE the show?
Updated On: 6/28/07 at 02:54 PM
SporkGoddess
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/27/05
#67re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 2:58pm
I don't think Chris is unlikeable, because you have to consider his situation. It's my opinion that he kind of numbs himself to everything after losing Kim, and after three years of that, it's easy to write her off as just a fling. Don't get me wrong, I don't like his actions all of the time, but I can understand them. I love MS because the characters are multi-faceted in that way.
As for Kim needing to be rescued, well, she's kind of in a situation where she has to be. Her only way of getting out of that life she's now leading is Chris. Even after they flee Vietnam, she's still stuck working as a bar girl in Thailand because she needs money. The only way she could have gotten out of it is by marrying Thuy, and who would want to marry the guy it is insinuated is responsible for the burning of her village? That, and she didn't love him.
Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!
#68re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 3:00pmIt's all subtext, first the "hooker with a heart of gold" cliche is about as sexist as they come. Add to that, her need to marry a man she only just met. Which makes her motivation for marrying him a little shaky, does she love him or want to leave the country. The idolization of the American way of life without recourse is pretty racist. I'm not saying it's the worst when it comes to these subjects, I find Sweet Charity to be so sexist as to be unwatchable even though I love the score. But I guess it taints the show for me.
#69re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 3:04pm
I'd hardly classify Kim as "hooker with a heart of gold." She's in that lifestyle because she has to be, not to mention the fact that the first time we see her is her first "day on the job." She's not exactly a world-weary hooker trying to make good. She's trapped in a world that she has no control over, genuinely (I think) falls in love-at-first-site with Chris, and needs a way out.
The idolization of America is pretty much skewered in "The American Dream." The whole point of the number is to parody the outlandishness and fakery of that very opinion of America.
#70re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 3:05pmles miz, all the way.
Can, can I have it?
ben4
Stand-by Joined: 6/10/07
#71re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 3:07pm
But it doesn't have to make overtly racist statemants to be racist.
Basically the portrayal of Kim is one of the sweet innocent vietnamese girl who wants nothing more than to go to america. It's a stereotype that you see in dozens of books and movies. Sure, it's easy to see why someone would prefer the conditions of the US to that of war-torn Saigon, but why wouldn't she go to China or India-- they're closer and atleast one of them doesn't have a communist government.
Her romanticising of the US has more to do with american geocentrism than anything else.
Updated On: 6/28/07 at 03:07 PM
SporkGoddess
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/27/05
#72re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 3:07pm
Plus, well, I wouldn't say that they all want to go to America so much as leave Vietnam. Wouldn't you, in that situation? And we've all seen the pictures of people lined up at the Embassy the day the Americans left...
Edit: China? China would throw her right back in Vietnam. Besides, Kim never stated that she wanted to go to America. Listen to the lyrics in "The Movie in My Mind."
Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!
Updated On: 6/28/07 at 03:07 PM
#73re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 3:12pm
Thank you Ben4. You seem to have seen the same show that I did. You are much better at putting your opinions into blog form than I do. I appreciate your statements.
Updated On: 6/28/07 at 03:12 PM
SporkGoddess
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/27/05
#74re: Which do you prefer - Miss Saigon or Les Miserables?
Posted: 6/28/07 at 3:25pmIt wasn't just that Vietnam was war-torn, it was the government itself. Kim had worked as a bargirl for the Americans, and anyone who had formerly associated with the Americans was viewed as dangerous. It's why the Engineer was sent to a re-education camp, and Kim was in hiding until Thuy found her.
Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!
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