Unjustified Tony Wins and Losses- Page 4

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 12:53am

I was a fan of Menzel's work in RENT, AIDA, and THE WILD PARTY. I wanted to badly for her to have her big break where she would finally get the recognition she deserved. And look, she got it - but for something completely mediocre.

I have learned just to disreguard some people's posts here, because clearly they are bonafide morons. And BSO, I don't think anyone on here is pretending to hate Idina, or to "jump on the BWW bandwagon" as you'd say. When is it ever "cool" on here to all hate or all love something? Is there an underground handbook going around that I don't know about?

If you actually thought about it for more than two seconds, which might be a little tough, maybe the reason so many people on here dislike WICKED and make fun of it is because the majority of people on here agree that it is a weak, flawed, overrated show. I don't think everyone on here who feels that way unanimously decided they would all post bad things about it. If so many people dislike WICKED, did you ever think that maybe there's a reason other than "everyone's doing it?"

You kind of just dug your own grave - no pun intended. You go around correcting everybody else, telling others how to post, what's right, what's wrong, what's allowed, what's stupid, who's to blame for certain things, and who's opinion doesn't matter - then you have the nerve to say "Dracula is a good show." It's your opinion, that's all. And if there was one reason for anyone on this board to loose faith in anything you might have to say, that is it.

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 12:53am

Well, Loppy, Avenue Q was just a bundle of amazingly amazing amazingness, now wasn't it? Amazing!

[magic8ball]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 12:55am

D'Abruzzo is also excellent, in my opinion.

But I think that you're misunderstanding what I mean about Tartaglia's rehearsed-ness. His characterizations don't come across as rehearsed- to the contrary, they come off as fresh and spontaneous; however, like I said before, I've seen the show several times, and so many of his nuances and subtleties translate from performance to performance that I find it hard to believe that anyone could say that he isn't remarkable. Also, his character is VERY well thought-out- why do you think that rehearsed acting equates underdeveloped or flat acting?

For the record, I loved Menzel in "Rent" and "The Wild Party".

Updated On: 12/30/04 at 12:55 AM

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 12:57am

1) not all my posts BASH shows
2) i am probably smarter than you - but that's something different
3) Discuss the flaws of Wicked - fine, I agree every show has them (EVERY show) - but ppl only say Idina is horrible....

P.S. So many people post to ignore your comments....so then ---

I never saw Hugh, but that fact that he WAS the BFO and ppl came to see him - that means a lot. But JOhn is very good and so is Stephanie.

The problem is, shows have become so broad that it is difficult to compare performers...

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 1:04am

"Also, his character is VERY well thought-out- why do you think that rehearsed acting equates underdeveloped or flat acting? "

It often doesn't start out that way, but it can unintentionally turn to that after hundreds of performances. The thing is, when an actor prepares with the aforementioned ways (meaning...discovering the psych and actually "experiencing" the character's life), it allows for a fresh performance every time as long as the focus is there. I think living off that character's past creates a more fresh moment in the present than a pre-planned future, if that makes ANY sense. I don't think it HAS to be in naturalistic acting...I think it just makes the present moment fresh. Pre-planning your moves can kind of make you meander from that.

I don't think anything specific can come to mind where I thought Tartaglia's every move seemed too rehearsed, but as I said, something just wasn't "there" that made me think he was really more than mediocre. Or maybe I built my expectations up way too high.

Oh, and for the record. I don't think Menzel's best work has been in Wicked. Maybe on the best nights I've seen her I could say that, but I find her work in Rent and The Wild Party a little more impressive. Updated On: 12/30/04 at 01:04 AM

[magic8ball]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 1:10am

"Or maybe I built my expectations up way too high."

Perhaps. I don't know. Tartaglia was pretty damn great every time that I saw him. And he had remarkable energy every time I saw the show, even after "hundreds of performances".

Updated On: 12/30/04 at 01:10 AM

[Loppy]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 1:10am

Better to be a pile of amazing amazingness than an over-hyped piece of crap.

as for hugh. he was great at being....Hugh. At no time did he transcend into Peter Allen. He was charming and funny and personable and great. But he didn't act.

When his lover died, we weren't moved. When his father died, we weren't moved. When he was dying women were STILL catcalling him in the audience.

That isn't acting.

Too bad Hugh didn't cross the street and work at the Golden. Maybe all that amazing amazingness would have rubbed off on him

[FOAnatic]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 1:11am

Not to get off the Wicked/Avenue Q debate...but there was a very important robbery last Tony season.

As much as I love Hairspray and all of the actors in it...in NO WAY did Marissa Jaret Winokur deserve a Tony award over Bernadette Peter's portrayal of Mama Rose. SO what if she has already won two Tonys...Mama Rose and Tracy Turnblad are two complete ends of the spectrum and Bernadette was a clear winner that year. She brought the entire audience at Radio City to its feet after her towering performance of "Rose's Turn." Not even the entire company of Hairspray did that performing the finale to their show. Disagree all you want, but I firmly believe Bernadette's performance in GYPSY was exquisite...she is everything she needed to be and more...who cares if she wasn't the "typical" Rose...she was phenomenal and deserved the Tony.

And Harvey?...love him to death...Edna Turnblad is not an award winning role. Don't get me wrong...Harvey was fabulous...but he was up against Stokes in "La Mancha" and Banderas in "Nine" both of whom performed exquisitely and got very good reviews. And, let's face it, Guido and Don Quixote are just a tad harder to play than Edna Turnblad.

When the Tony voters get obsessed with a show it puts blinders on them and they can't realize that, a show may be amazing, but not every lead deserves the award. They're not the only part of the show that makes it what it is and they recieve awards that some of them do not merit. Now, this doesn't happen every year, but the 2003 awards were robbed.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 1:11am

i agree - i was sitting RIGHT in front of him and you could see how much he puts into the role...

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 1:13am

BSO - What are you even talking about? Are you a young child?

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 1:13am

FOAnatic - Amen!

[magic8ball]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 1:14am

I believe that he was responding to my assessment of Tartaglia's performance.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 1:14am

am i a young child? no I am not...i'm in college 0 and a good one at that...

what am i talking about? i was reffering to your post

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 1:16am

FOAnatic - I agree with absolutely everything you said.

How do you feel about Krakowski winning over Masterson and Tuttle being nominated over Butler, Benanti, or Hoffman?

[magic8ball]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 1:18am

Butler was robbed.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 1:19am

Edna isn't Tony award winning

Unfortunately - Harvey is....Stokes was amazing as cervantes ----

well, can't wait for the tony's this year

[FOAnatic]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 1:20am

I loves me some Jane Krakowski and, granted, her performance was well done. But, Masterson made me cry. Her performance was heart wrenching and powerful. Again, it's another instance where they give the award to the better known actress. Krakowski did a good job but was not in a lot of the show. Masterson should have gotten in.

And yes...Butler was robbed.

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 1:27am

Butler shouldn't have WON the tony for HAIRSPRAY, but she certainly deserved a nomination over Ashley Tuttle.

[FOAnatic]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 1:33am

No, not at all. Butler shouldn't have won but she did deserve the nom.

I really hate the new Tony rule that makes these newish/old musicals fall under revival. Like with Assassins. It had never been on Broadway before, although it did have an Off Broadway run...still, that doesn't put it in the revival class. It was a new musical on Broadway and should have been treated as such. It didn't deserve the revival award because it wasn't one. The producers of the revivals this past season must have been quite pissed when they heard that Assassins was running against them.

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 1:37am

It makes perfect sense for ASSASSINS and LITTLE SHOP to have been considered revivals. It's not as if they were off-Broadway a few years ago, then transferred. They had major, commercial runs off-broadway. One spawned a movie and both had soundtracks - the consider them a new musical would have been absurd.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 1:38am

i wish LSOH received more tony nominations

[FOAnatic]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 1:40am

Technically it's not Best NEW Musical...the award is Best Musical. And, I don't think it's unflattering to say that Assassins should have been vying for Best Musical. But, I can also see where you're coming from.

[jo]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 3:12am

How can you say that Hugh was just playing Hugh ?

Who is the real Hugh? The angst-filled mutant from XMEN? The elegant and a little foppish Leopold, Duke of Albany? The womanizing media personality in Someone Like You? The charming cowpoke in Oklahoma! ? The droll and heroic Gabriel Van Helsing? The angry young man in Erskineville Kings? The reformed computer hacker in Swordfish? The flamboyant Peter Allen whose joie de vivre was lived to the fullest?

The Hugh you see on stage or on film is a chameleon, acting-wise. If you are going to praise John Tartaglia's ability (and yes, I did see AVENUE Q and likewise appreciated his performance), please do not do it at the expense of someone else, unless you have done your homework well.

Unfortunately, because of Hugh's looks and charisma, people mistake his appeal to be solely due to these personal assets which he has in abundance. Fortunately, the theatre critics ( and the TONY voters) were one and the same in recognizing his acting chops and his other musical theatre talents. Surely, such prominent members of the Broadway community were not all wrong. Also, the only solid standing ovation was given to Hugh after his TONY win was announced - a spontaneous recognition by the theatre community that it was a well-deserved win!

I think we have not seen him yet at his best, acting-wise. He is a classically trained actor ( I have seen some clips of him speaking the words of the Bard) and he can surprise us if and when he eventually does a play with Trevor Nunn from the Bard's many masterpieces. I also think that his screen promise has not been fully realized and that the right script will come along that is worthy of an Oscar-winning performance!

[magruder]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 9:05am

Little Shop did indeed have a long commerical run Off-Broadway at the Orpheum for about five years. But Assassins played a sold out three months at a non-profit (Playwrights Horizons). It didn't have a commercial NYC run.

[Albin]

Posted: 12/30/04 at 9:34am

doing my best "whine":

Boo hoo, Follies should have beaten Two Gentlemen...Wicked was robbed...There's no freaking way Marissa should have won over Bernadette...La Cage sucked. Sunday in the Park was so much better...

BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! Get over it all ready. I loved La Cage but if it lost the Tony for best muscial, I wouldn't be whining about it 20 years after the fact. If you loved Wicked, great! That's all that matters. Who cares if it one or not. For that matter, who will remember 50 years from now that it lost the best musical Tony.