DOWNTON ABBEY Season 3 Discussion Thread - SPOILERS WITHIN- Page 8

[Scripps2]

Posted: 11/5/12 at 5:12pm

You could be hanged for "buggery" up until the early 1860s in the UK.

The Oscar Wilde trial is probably the best indicator as to how things might have been handled in Thomas' time.

There were a lot of high profile prosecutions of gay men in the early 1950s (famous examples include John Gielgud, Alan Turing, Lord Montagu) in an attempt to get "morality" back to what it was before WWII. The prosecutions produced adverse public opinion and set in line a chain of (slow) events that resulted in homosexuality being decriminalised in the UK in 1967.

It was never illegal to be a gay woman in the UK, in fact from the late c19th to 1967 it was impossible.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/5/12 at 6:08pm

Interesting. I always thought that it wasn't homosexuality itself that was illegal, rather the act of sodomy (which Thomas wasn't guilty of last night...). I'm thankful I live in a time that allows me to be so ignorant. I'm off to google it now.

Re : Bates, I'm sure there will be some cockamamie reason for him to play the victim next season too, and don't worry Phyllis -I've produced my own Downton/TrueBlood crossover fan-fiction where he dies in a delightful variety of ways so whatever Julian Fellowes decides, I can take solace in my imagination.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/5/12 at 6:14pm

I would love to see some vampires at Downton!

[secondstar2theright]

Posted: 11/6/12 at 2:01am

What a nice and feel-good episode that was! Maybe now that Thomas knows he kind of owes Bates for being allowed to stay on, he will be nicer. Most of the time I hate him because he's so horrible, but there are these rare times when I feel bad for him... And him crying about Sybil was actually heartbreaking. Oh and Branson was pleasant in this episode and not his usual angry-with-the-world self.

Also, although I found the Dowager's manipulation/trickery with the whole 18-yr-old girl situation pretty funny, what was the deal with her?? Her story line appears to be unnecessary to me... But whatever, I still loved this episode!

I'm pretty sad that we only have the Christmas special left.

[Huss417]

Posted: 11/11/12 at 8:18am

It is going to be a sad night. No new Downton Abbey.

[romantico]

Posted: 11/11/12 at 9:54am

Seems like it was around Thanksgiving last year is when they released a trailer to the Christmas episode. Maybe we'll have that to look forward to til Christmas. I'm with you.No Downton tonight. What am I gonna do until Next September when Season 4 starts? Probably watch each season on dvd a dozen times or so til then.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 11/15/12 at 2:02am

I always watch with my mother--and she was on her honeymoon the past ten days, so I had to wait till now to watch the finale (I mean, the nerve of her timing!)

"Interesting. I always thought that it wasn't homosexuality itself that was illegal, rather the act of sodomy (which Thomas wasn't guilty of last night...). "

Yes, but he was caught, basically in bed--or that's what was seen. As mentioned, it all goes down to hearsay, but I could very easily see Thomas arrested in that situation. I did love Robert's line about all the guys who tried to kiss him in Eton (will we see some of that in the prequel this Summer? I kid... kinda).

I liked the finale--though I admit with the rumours that Stevens may not stay, I kept on expecting to see Matthew fall down clutching his heart at the end, or something. Will we see more of Rose?

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 11/15/12 at 4:59am

That was the finale?

[Huss417]

Posted: 11/15/12 at 7:40am

Other than the Christmas episode that is it for series 3 JerseyGirl.

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 11/15/12 at 9:51am

Sigh. Thanks.

[Scripps2]

Posted: 11/15/12 at 1:37pm

I'm surprised no-one has picked up my comment about how it was impossible to be a lesbian in the UK. Or is this story widely known outside the UK?

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/15/12 at 1:53pm

I picked up on it and even read a little bit about it. Is it true that it's because Queen Victoria believed it was impossible for ladies to do such things? That seemed like the (quasi)logical reason behind it to me, that women's sexuality was such an afterthought that the thought of sexuality between two women would be inconceivable.

[Scripps2]

Posted: 11/15/12 at 2:13pm

There's certainly wide-spread belief that when the legislation prohibiting same sex acts between male-and-male and female-and-female was presented to Queen Victoria for royal assent, she crossed out female-and-female and wrote "impossible" above it.

I've read that the formal legislation has been inspected recently by historians and, if there was a draft with the hand-written amendment, it can't be found.

But it's a delicious anecdote.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 11/15/12 at 4:36pm

Scripps, I believe it is widely known, at least to any of us who have even a slight understanding of the history of legality and homosexuality in the West. The Queen Victoria anecdote certainly is.

I guess for me I don't find it ALL that surprising, is all. It was a lesser issue, if not deemed necessarily impossible, in the US as well. I always took a more literal view of it than Phyllis--that essentially people assumed because no actual penile penetration happened, that it was "impossible"--sodomy at the time refering usually of course to anal sex, but oral too (and heterosexually as well).

[Scripps2]

Posted: 11/15/12 at 5:42pm

Surprised to find this is so well known!

Obviously the lesson here is... don't invite me for dinner, guys, as the rest of my conversation is equally tired and passé.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/15/12 at 5:53pm

It doesn't count as being known in America if Eric knows it--he's Canadian!

But hearing that story about Queen Victoria saying lesbian sex was "impossible" makes me hear the song "It's Impossible" from Cinderella, as sung by Celeste Holm, except as Queen Victoria instead of the Fairy Godmother, and with lyrics about lesbian sex.

http://youtu.be/Fe27-t0axUY

Impossible things are happening every day!

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 11/15/12 at 6:06pm

HA, I'd LOVE to hear that version, PJ!

Scripps, you are welcome at my dinner table, any evening. :P

[romantico]

Posted: 11/15/12 at 6:09pm

I can see the angry right plotting a new Michelle Obama scandal over this

http://cartermatt.com/40119/downton-abbey-season-3-it-pays-to-be-michelle-obama/

[romantico]

Posted: 11/15/12 at 6:19pm

Downton Abbey fans look forward to Christmas special after series 3 finale

http://www.metro.co.uk/tv/916964-downton-abbey-fans-look-forward-to-christmas-special-after-series-3-finale

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/15/12 at 6:20pm

That's dumb. All of us saw it before Michelle Obama, anyway, unless Malia has been torrenting again.

[romantico]

Posted: 11/15/12 at 6:50pm

They don't give a date so she could have watched them all back in September or October.I think it's pretty cool they sent her the dvd's. Maybe they did not want word to get out until the series ended over in the UK. Who knows?

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/15/12 at 6:54pm

I know. I was just kidding.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 11/15/12 at 8:17pm

The commercial DVDs came out in the UK the day after the season ended--as they have in the past--so I suspect they just sent those, but who knows? I admit, joke or not, I kinda had the same reaction as Phyllis--it's cool that she's a fan (though really, does the article make it clear they were for her primarily and not Obama? Or is it just an assumption due to her gender?), but whoever wrote the piece either is conveniently or honestly unaware of the huge number of fans in the US who were basically as up to date as the British.

I know the show gets huge ratings by PBS standards, but it always strikes me as poor planning in the modern day of torrents that popular shows from the UK, in the US, aren't shown closer to their UK air date. I guess the ratings numbers wouldn't be hugely different, but I suspect, increasingly, it does make a genuine difference.

Hrmm the Christmas special teaser in the other piece Romantico posted seems to imply a wedding for Edith and Anthony. I can only assume the quote from the actor who plays Anthony was poorly used by the writer of the article--they say that was back in August, and he obviously was teasing the gilted at the altar storyline--not hinting at some sudden reuinion in August.

On another forum people have speculated that Robert's easy acceptance of Thomas' homosexuality was unrealistic, especially for a man who this year has been increasingly conservative compared to others. I disagree--while it probably was more pat than it may have been in real life, it makes sense (from my understanding) of British society at the time that, as long as it's not really discussed, the upper class would have less of an issue with it than some of the lower class (ie the servants). As Robert mentioned it was somewhat common in boarding schools (though with the understanding that it would be something people would grow out of). The main reason Oscar Wilde really was jailed was due to him fighting the charge itself--when Bosie's father sued him for corruption, or whatever, the charge could have been quietly settled, and probably would have, except Wilde was (understandably) indignant and pressed on with it--somewhat foolishly thinking he could come out of it successfully.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/17/12 at 12:23am

I'll be re-watching in January. The whole torrenting thing was only a mixed success for me - Sybil will have extra poignancy in the first few episodes, knowing what will happen. I still haven't forgiven Julian Fellowes.

Although after catching up on the new season of Grey's Anatomy, I realized things could be worse. SPOILER IN THE UNLIKELY EVENT YOU CARE After several season's of will-they-won't-they with Mark McSteamy and Lexie Grey, the answer was finally...they won't. They both die from plane-crash injuries out of nowwhere.
Shonda Rhimes, you complete hack. I guess it serves me right for giving hours and hours of my life to Grey's Anatomy.

I don't know why I just typed that.

Did I mention that I've been drinking? Yeeeeeehaaaaawwwwww

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/18/12 at 11:01pm

I'm suffering Downton withdrawl symptoms, and looking for a replacement. My search lead me to this trailer, for a "Spanish Downton Abbey" which began airing in the UK tonight...I can't seem to find it online yet, though. It looks good!

P.S. Please disregard my last post. I don't watch Grey's Anatomy.


Grand Hotel 30 second trailer

Updated On: 11/18/12 at 11:01 PM