Dorothy Collins- Page 2

[Musical Master]

Posted: 9/12/14 at 3:58pm

Wow.. That's amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that story, your mother must've been a treasure and a true lady with a captial "L".

[gangtey]

Posted: 9/12/14 at 4:25pm

This is one of my favorite things: From SCTV, Andrea Martin as Bernadette Peters, singing Sondheim, trying to cry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQKWn6oPj-c

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/12/14 at 7:18pm

Thank you for posting, MomofOZ. My appreciation for your mother's work simply grows and grows as the decades pass.

(And she remains a favorite of my husband; he was old enough to watch YOUR HIT PARADE.)

And your mother was right: there's even an old show biz saying: "If you laugh, the audience won't; if you cry, the audience won't."

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/12/14 at 11:39pm

I saw your Mom in Follies five of the six times I saw it. I can still recall every moment of her performance, which was seared into my being the first time I saw her walk out on that stage and say "Oh Lord, don't tell me I'm the first," the first moment she sang "Now, folks, we bring you, direct from Phoenix, live and person, Sally Durant," the first moment I heard her say "I remember him, Ben. I think I loved him once," or the first moment I heard her say "If you don't kiss me, Ben, I think I'm going to die."

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/13/14 at 7:32pm

My favorite moment of hers (other than "Losing My Mind") comes in conjunction with the "If you don't kiss me, Ben..." line. During "Too Many Mornings", Miss Collins pantomimed making love to Ben while he was actually making love to the ghost of her younger self.

One of the most poignant moments I've ever seen in a theater. It still haunts me. Great direction from Hal Prince, of course, but it also took a great actress in Collins to pull it off.

[binau]

Posted: 9/14/14 at 6:13pm

"Peters cries. A lot. Not just in FOLLIES."

Indeed, and it's wonderful. I haven't made my mind up about the crying in Losing My Mind yet, but I'm thinking about her Send in the Clowns and it was perfect. No one can do vulnerability like Bernadette Peters can.

For me, this is the highlight of her performance as Sally:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwFxf9lAzhA

[lovebwy]

Posted: 9/14/14 at 6:17pm

I saw the revival of Follies maybe 10 times between NYC and Los Angeles, usually from the 5th row or closer. I can tell you unequivocally that Peters' crying absolutely did not work for that song in the context of the show.

There were always different degrees of crying too. A couple of times she didn't actually cry and it was wonderful. Other nights, she cried softy. But once or twice she full on sobbed and sniffled her way though the song and it just didn't work at all.

Vicki Clark was wondaful every time I saw her, however.

[ljay889]

Posted: 9/14/14 at 6:44pm

I was a big fan of Peters' Sally, but I could have done without the crying in Losing My Mind. Otherwise, I loved having a Sally centric production. Her entrance and exit will forever be seared in my memory. Her performance often changed, it was constantly evolving. She never walked through the show, sometimes she was more over-the-top than other performances, but at least she kept trying to evolve in the role. I did always think that her In Buddy's Eyes was more successful than her Losing My Mind. I know her performance was controversial with many on here, but she did receive some very good reviews (including Brantley's Broadway review). She did deserve a Tony nomination, the snub was unfortunate.

I do wish I had the chance to see Collins live. She IS Sally, everything from her physical appearance to her vocal delivery and line readings. I get chills listening to her throughout the show on the soundboard recording. She was such a talented woman.

Updated On: 9/14/14 at 06:44 PM

[lovebwy]

Posted: 9/14/14 at 7:16pm

As Bernadette was fantastic. But Bernadette was Bernadette. Dorothy Collins WAS Sally.

[jayinchelsea]

Posted: 9/15/14 at 10:12am

Thank you, MomofOZ for your postings. I saw your mom 11 times (including the pre-Broadway tryout, the opening night and the closing night) and she was unforgettable. No one else (and I've seen quite a few) can play Sally as she did. For me, her "In Buddy's Eyes," when she lies to Ben and herself, was the crowning moment of her performance. On closing night, when she made her first appearance, the audience went wild, she started to cry (not while she was singing, may I add) and the entire performance probably ran 20 minutes longer than usual. The one time I saw the show without your mom, Jan Clayton was her standby, and although she sang well, didn't begin to bring the pathos or commitment that the role demanded. I worked with the late Margery Beddow, who was a very close friend of your mom's, and she always spoke glowingly of her. Even with only one Broadway role, your mom created something that none of us who saw her will ever forget.

[mamaleh]

Posted: 9/15/14 at 10:35am

Thanks for sharing with us, MomofOz. I was able to see the original FOLLIES only four times, but each time I became more and more impressed with your mother's Sally. Such a heartfelt and beautifully sung performance. No other Sally has ever matched her.

Just curious: Re your screen name, I was wondering if you have any connection to THE BOY FROM OZ.

[lovebwy]

Posted: 9/15/14 at 10:56am

jayinchelsea thanks for sharing that story about closing night of Follies. That's why I love coming here- to read stories like that about moments I never got to experience that were not captured on film or video. I can totally picture it though. Collins arrives in the theater and the crowd (most of whom I'm sure saw Follies several times at that point) goes nuts. I'm sure Collins attempted to hold and wait for it to die down, but then was overwhelmed.

Savor that memory, Jay. You're lucky to have it!

[nobodyhome]

Posted: 9/21/14 at 3:23am

"According to EVERYTHING WAS POSSIBLE, that was one of the things that got them interested in her for Sally."

Yes, that seems to have been why Sondheim was interested. Prince had come close to casting her as Amalia in She Loves Me (another role she seems to have eventually done in stock). It came down to choosing between her and Barbara Cook. So they both already had strongly positive feelings about her.

"I think I read that as well as DO I HEAR A WALTZ, she was up for the Lincoln Center SOUTH PACIFIC - what a dream it would be to have Collins on the cast recording rather than Florence Henderson with her two distinct and non-complimentary voices."

I've never read that she was under serious consideration for South Pacific at Lincoln Center, even though Nellie was yet another role that she had done in stock. The Rodgers and Hammerstein heroine whom she definitely almost played in New York was Laurey. She had been announced to play Laurey in the 1958 City Center Oklahoma! but she ended up bowing out because she was pregnant.

[binau]

Posted: 9/21/14 at 4:19am

"And your mother was right: there's even an old show biz saying: "If you laugh, the audience won't; if you cry, the audience won't."

I'm still not sure I'm convinced about this. I'm not talking about Bernadette's Losing My Mind which, as I said earlier I still am unsure/mixed about. But crying I think has made me enjoy many performances I have seen in the past. For example, Alice Ripley and (in particular) Marin Mazzie both cried in next to normal. Bernadette cried during parts of Send in the Clowns. People cry, so I'm not sure why that should suddenly stop if they are singing.

[Wilmingtom]

Posted: 9/21/14 at 1:22pm

Indeed, Miss Collins was utterly remarkable in Follies and I know I'm not the only one who was flabbergasted when she didn't win the Tony. I also saw her in Good News at Melody Top in the 70s and she was delightful in a very different type of role. I knew several members of the company and they all adored her greatly. A real class act.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/21/14 at 1:43pm

Bernadette's crying has become forced and phony over the years.

Back in Sunday in the Park, she didn't NEED to cry, and she was so much more affecting.

[Wilmingtom]

Posted: 9/21/14 at 1:50pm

As Miss Collins opined, you cannot cry and sing at the same time. Crying restricts the vocal chords. Bernadette doesn't cry, she makes her eyes water. It's a technique she has developed as have many others. It can be be useful in the right situation but just because you *can* do it doesn't always mean you should.

[lovebwy]

Posted: 9/21/14 at 2:29pm

Wilmington there were some nights at Follies where she was full on crying during Losing My Mind. I was in the 5th row and it just didn't work. I'm talking sniffling and near sobbing. Other nights, as you say, her eyes just watered and it was much better.

I get it, though. She's been through some tragedy and that song can be very affecting. But I think the better choice would have been to really make an effort not to cry during Losing My Mind. It worked much better when she didn't.

[Showface]

Posted: 9/21/14 at 3:45pm

I agree with both perspectives on the crying issue. However, I did not see neither performance, but there is one clip of Bernadette's Losing My Mind, and she does this really effective thing where she finishes the first part of the song, then there is a part where the music plays, during that part, she looks offstage like she's about to run off and cry. But, then, it seems like something stopped her (who knows what)...she then continues the song ("I want you so..."). It was VERY effective.

Also, I could be wrong, but shouldn't Sally be more crazed, rather than heartbroken in Losing My Mind. I don't know...I haven't seen it.

Updated On: 9/21/14 at 03:45 PM

[binau]

Posted: 9/22/14 at 8:58am

That is why I'm still kind of mixed about it. At face value, if there is a song that someone should seem psychologically conflicted in, it sounds like "Losing My Mind". And the mood is definitely meant to be one of "langour", according to Sondheim.

But the song is not Sally sitting on a bed intimately reflecting on her lost love (cf, A Little Night Music, which Bernadette did perfectly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNwnrA8EshM)

The song (like all the "Loveland" songs) is a 'performance'. Sally is standing there looking like a glamorous film star with the stage her-own, and (in the recent revival at least), this blindingly red backdrop behind her (I was taken aback at how bright it is when I saw it compared to videos/photos), singing a song that is written to start off quiet and slow, and then gradually get louder and faster and finally peak with very loud, sustained belted notes, before slowing down and becoming relatively quiet again at the very end. Then after giving this knock-out performance Sally walks slowly off stage while the audience goes wild (at least in the current revival).

It just doesn't seem consistent with the staging or necessary to 'interrupt' this song with the level of intimacy that Bernadette did. Especially given Bernadette already had many other moments to demonstrate this vulnerability. In particular, In Buddy's Eyes, which IS an intimate song where the whole idea is that Sally is reflecting quietly on her lost love without saying it out loud. And she nailed it. Helped in part because of the fantastic musical direction during the song. I don't know what it is but other recordings of this song (e.g., Papermill cast recording; OBC cast recording; Concert recording) are far, far too fast than how this song is written to be performed (I'm pretty sure they might have been playing about 10% too fast even in the past revival, 30-35% too fast on papermill/concert recording, and 45% too fast on OBC based on my BPM estimations).

Even if Bernadette didn't always nail Losing My Mind on stage, it looks like Sondheim or others were a bit more heavy handed during the cast recording session because she pretty much performs it as written.

Updated On: 9/22/14 at 08:58 AM

[lovebwy]

Posted: 9/22/14 at 10:09am

Yes, she is wonderful in the cast recording and she was wonderful on stage too, in general. It was just the couple of nights were I believe during Losing My Mind her emotions got the best of her. Again, knowing what she's been though I'm certainly not going to hold that against her. She is a legendary star and I consider myself lucky to have seen her play Sally multiple times from very close to the stage.

[beaemma]

Posted: 9/22/14 at 10:56am

My understanding of the Loveland sequence is that the characters are not singing as themselves. They are doing the songs as performers in a Weismann Follies-type show. The audience sees the connection to the characters, but the characters are operating on a level of psychological fantasy not a realistic expression of their problems. Thus, Sally is playing the role of a traditional torch singer singing a number that applies to Sally. She isn't singing directly about her life. Dorothy Collins managed this tricky perspective to perfection. The three times I saw Bernadette, her crying seriously distorted her voice and diction. There was sniffling, snorting, and a "mucusy" sound that she didn't have when doing the "watering eye" crying that I've seen her do effectively in other shows.

[MomofOZ]

Posted: 9/23/14 at 4:19pm

I want to thank everyone for their kind words regarding my mother's performance in Follies. She would be so thrilled to know after all these years, that her Sally touched you in some way.
Jayinchelsea: I loved Margery Beddow and was so sad to hear of her passing. Mom and Margery toured in Ballroom together. I was just 11 years old at the time, but have many fond memories of hanging out with Margery and Mary Ann Niles!! It was a wonderful cast and I loved touring with them as well!
mamaleh: My name is a reference to my children, Olivia and Zachary!

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/23/14 at 11:19pm

qolbinau, I think the adage (it wasn't written by me) applies in general. But I think there's truth in it: fighting to hold back tears is often more moving than copious sobbing; funny lines are almost always funnier when the character is unaware of the humor. (There are wise-cracking characters (Phyllis in FOLLIES) that are the exception, of course.)

You are right, of course, that if characters cry when they are speaking, there is no reason they shouldn't cry when they are singing. (The adage I quote doesn't distinguish between speaking and singing.)

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/23/14 at 11:23pm

That's a shame, baemma, because Vicki Clark was the best Sally I've seen since the original. (And I saw Vikki Carr, who sang the part as well as anybody.) Nobody I've seen (certainly not Miss Collins) sobbed her way through the number.

BTW, for those with Windows phones, the Xbox store offers a collection of Dorothy Collins' songs that is quite the bargain for its price. I only wish she had been born 10 years earlier, since so many of the pop songs of the 1950s are so bland. But then she would have been too old to play Sally, and that would have been a tragedy.